Vegetarians - why?

[Homo Carnivorous]

I know quite a few vegans who are doing just fine, as I said, and you're probably the only person I've ever met who claims to be healthy on a "mostly meat" diet -

Get to know more of us if you like. http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/ is one place where carnivores hang out. These are mostly raw foodists. I am not a raw foodist allthough the majority of my food is eaten raw I hate to adhere to anything with religius vigor. It appears that my health cares little for my personally held ideologies and beliefs and I am better of eating like a ...well...a pig =/

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Some people just don't like meat, it's an acquired taste just like everything else. If you grew up in a society which treated vegetables as meat is treated now, you bet you would like vegetables. Also vegetables are given no attention when meat is give a great deal of attention. Meat is always marinated and cooked to perfection, while vegetables are often low quality to begin with (frozen vegetable medley, yuck) and far over cooked with no spices or marination.

As for why vegetables and not why you prefer meat to vegetables. It's healthier, you've heard all the bad things about meat in sure.
Meat is extremely detrimental to the environment, I'm sure you've heard this too, raising so many cows and how much water and food it takes to produce a single pound of meat. A person who primarily eats meat actually has a bigger carbon footprint if they walk to travel than they do if they drive a car (because of meat calories burned). Yes, more vegetables are necessary for equivalent calories, but the cows needed to eat those plants anyway (and support their own bodies) to generate your meat.

I'm not vegetarian by the way.

Meat has plenty of variety, especially in taste.

That's not true, the main varieties of meat in the US are chicken, cow, and pig. After that Turkey, Duck, and Lamb have some prevalence, but not much else shows up. (I am excluding seafood from this list because I know plenty of people who just avoid land and air meat while eating fish)
Most of the differences are just in how it is cooked, what flavorings are used, and the like. Even different animals can taste quite similar.
Plants have huge variety. How many fruits do you see in the fruit aisle? How many variations do you see of apples alone? Look at corn and rice and wheat and the greens section. There's tofu (don't be hatin', it's good if someone who actually knows how [and doesn't try to imitate meat] to cook makes it.) of many different varieties. You can even make a tofu mousse without sacrificing flavor if you cook with tofu on its own merits.

I tried stuff like tofu and couscous once. They tasted like hair and were not filling in the slightest. I even tried a full vegetarian lunch and it was not filling(Paella I think is how you spell it. It was some Spanish thing and salad). I have no problem if people like vegetarian food I just want to put in my two cents there that it is extremely unfilling.

 

[GBlair88]

Some people like things you don't. Get over it.

 

[TheAmokz]

Humans are omnivores.
I am human.
Ergo, i eat meat.

 

[The Gnome King]

P.S. I'm done arguing with you on the internet, you're obviously a complete weirdo T_T

"Hello, Pot."

"Yes, Kettle?"

"You're black."

"Oh."

I will endeavor to find things to do with my time now that you are no longer arguing with me.

 

[JasonKaotic]

I hate the whole human superiority thing. What we do isn't natural.
If a human kills an animal it's acceptable, but if an animal kills a human IT'S EVIL AND DESERVES TO DIE!

Evil is not an absolute construct. It IS relative and subjective.

If aliens come to kill us you can say:

"hey you can't kill me, I'm a vegan"

And see how far that gets you. I think anyone with any common sense would not submit to death just because they did the same to animals with minuscule brains that is barely capable of the most simple thought.

Illusion of moral superiority doesn't count for shit when you're dead.

...What? That's not my point at all and you know it. My point was that nothing makes humans more important than animals. I was using an example. Nothing to do with us surviving.

Humans are more important to humans than animals because we are humans.

To put the locust before the human is catastrophic.

So, just because? That's not a reason. Not one part of the human body makes them superior to other life. Sure we have higher intelligence, but dogs have better smell, cats can jump higher, cheetahs are faster, tortoises have longer lifespans, etc. One aspect of us is better, but that doesn't make us superior. Along with that, humans destroy everything they can for the selfish reason of living more comfortably, whereas the worst any animals do is accidentally release a bit of methane, and yet you'd say animals are more savage than us.

And I'm not putting locusts before humans. That's the exact opposite of my point. I'm saying they're as important as us, not more important. That they have as much right to live as us, and however many human superiority zealots like you there are, nothing changes that.

 

[Gluzzbung]

I don't mind vegitarians as such, it does make it difficult on a night out to go to a kebab shop or such but as long as they don't profocise about it at me, It's fine.

 

[Jakub324]

My sister was a vegetarian for about 15 minutes, when she gave up in the face of a steak sandwich.

 

[Ampersand]

To be honest i've never understood the point of view of people who eat meat, I don't really bring it up anymore because people just get really angry or offended for some reason and I'm not willing to go to war with the world over it.

In response to your question there are a million answers i could give you but one of the main ones is that, eating animals is really messed up because I am an animal.

 

[StBishop]

Have you never eaten green food (or fruits)? Just about anything in the produce aisle other than artichokes can be bitten into right there. It might not taste great, but nor would raw meat (which also must be cooked by the way to avoid disease and taste good.)

It doesn't matter what was history though, it matters what is now. Our bodies CAN survive on vegetables alone (assuming you ensure you get your protein), and can't survive well on only meat (you miss out on too many vitamins and minerals).

Also I edited my first comment to reply to your variety of meat comment if you care to read it.

False.

Meat is perfectly delicious raw, however only if of high quality.

I won't bother arguing any other points raised in the thread because I simply don't care enough. I'm interested to see a novel reasoning but I can't be bothered arguing about this topic, it's an exercise in futility.

TRUE.

ALL commonly eaten meat is the US is cooked. Just because there are a couple dishes that aren't doesn't mean meat in general is not cooked.

Also, I was replying in kind to the other commenter's comment, I see nothing about you confirming that almost every single commonly eaten plant can be eaten raw.

You people (commenters on the forum) really need to understand context.

I'm not from the U.S.A. and nor are a number of the posters on this forum. The way things are done in the States doesn't affect simple truths. If it's illegal to do something in one country it doesn't make that a universal truth that this act is illegal, the act is only illegal in that country. You can't say "this act is illegal" without qualifying where you're on about. This applies not only to laws but to conventions and societal norms, like the way food's prepared.

Just because meat sometimes has to be cooked does not mean that meat has to be cooked. It might mean that meat usually has to be cooked, but it doesn't mean that is has to be cooked.

I'm just going to go right ahead and assume that you've never eaten raw meat, it tastes delicious. It's common to eat uncooked meats in some countries. Therefore it's safe to assume I'm not the only one who enjoys it.
So the claim you made that cooking meat is the only way to make it taste good is in fact false.

In regard to vegetables not needing to be cooked. I could go on to argue about the way humans have evolved to have small, almost non-functional, appendixes making most raw plant matter indigestible to humans and that the other commenter's claim is not utterly incorrect. But it's a waste of time, because a large amount of plant matter is edible raw, and like you said, there's almost nothing in the produce section of a supermarket/greengrocers that can't be eaten raw.

Regardless of context, you made a claim which was untrue. I was simply pointing it out.

Also, while we're on the topic of reading posts and replying out of context, I did mention that I can't be bothered arguing with vegetarians about being a vegetarian. It's not worth it.
That's why I didn't comment on whether or not veggies can be eaten raw.

 

[Ampersand]

I eat factory farmed animals because if lions were smarter, they'd be happily factory farming humans.

......and you'd be cool with that?

 

[Ampersand]

I love how some say they don't eat living things. Yes, I've heard that one before. So to people who take that stance, quit eating vegetables. They're living too.

I always see someone make this point on these forums.
I feel as though I'd be remiss not to warn you that if you can't see any difference between killing an animal and killing a plant, then you're probably a sociopath.

Also you're not going to win an argument base on semantics.: /

 

[Homo Carnivorous]

I feel as though I'd be remiss not to warn you that if you can't see any difference between killing an animal and killing a plant, then you're probably a sociopath.

Why? Because the plant doesnt have big wet eyes to look at you with? A chain of chemical reactions that are similar to how our nerve system reacts to pain and suffering happens in the plant if you hurt it. It even sends out a chemical warning signal to surrounding plants.

And then there is a F-in hipocricy. I eat apx. 1 cow a year. I know my source so its the same for all the parts of cows I have eaten. For me personally. apx a cow a year. Thats the one single animal that has to die to sustain me. Since it is freerange and only feeds on grass, no animals died to support it beyond the unlucky bugs it munched. Do you hear me. to feed me for a year 1, ONE, UNO, EINZ a single animal has to die for my sustainance.

To feed you the vegan and vegetarian, hundreds of small rodents, birds, reptiles and such has to die. The lucky ones are killed by the combine harvester.....then theres the petrolium based fertilizers, pesticides and such...

So how does your ethical equation work. Pound for pound?. Ill admit, my animal was 400kg heavy, while all those small animals killed on the fields that fed you probably wouldnt weight as much lumped together. If the equation is. 1:1 (the logical one that dictates, killing animals is wrong period)then you are not on the high ethical road you may think yourself. Just sayin.

edit: in other words. The vegans plate is covered with blood, but youll be hard pressed to have them admit it.

 

[Ashtovo]

i know a few (and have considered it myself) that are so because meat is an inefficient (but admitedly delicious) source of food.

 

[ScumbagEddie]

I love how some say they don't eat living things. Yes, I've heard that one before. So to people who take that stance, quit eating vegetables. They're living too.

I always see someone make this point on these forums.
I feel as though I'd be remiss not to warn you that if you can't see any difference between killing an animal and killing a plant, then you're probably a sociopath.

Also you're not going to win an argument base on semantics.: /

Funny, bud. I don't remember quoting anyone in my previous post, therefore, I don't believe I was arguing anything. I stated an observation that ran through my head that made me chuckle and decided to share it with others. Frankly, it appears that you're the one looking for arguments. Who, exactly, are you to "warn" anyone of anything? Also, who are you to judge the mental state of another person on this forum for posting a random thought. Start your fights elsewhere XD

 

[ScumbagEddie]

I feel as though I'd be remiss not to warn you that if you can't see any difference between killing an animal and killing a plant, then you're probably a sociopath.

Why? Because the plant doesnt have big wet eyes to look at you with? A chain of chemical reactions that are similar to how our nerve system reacts to pain and suffering happens in the plant if you hurt it. It even sends out a chemical warning signal to surrounding plants.

And then there is a F-in hipocricy. I eat apx. 1 cow a year. I know my source so its the same for all the parts of cows I have eaten. For me personally. apx a cow a year. Thats the one single animal that has to die to sustain me. Since it is freerange and only feeds on grass, no animals died to support it beyond the unlucky bugs it munched. Do you hear me. to feed me for a year 1, ONE, UNO, EINZ a single animal has to die for my sustainance.

To feed you the vegan and vegetarian, hundreds of small rodents, birds, reptiles and such has to die. The lucky ones are killed by the combine harvester.....then theres the petrolium based fertilizers, pesticides and such...

So how does your ethical equation work. Pound for pound?. Ill admit, my animal was 400kg heavy, while all those small animals killed on the fields that fed you probably wouldnt weight as much lumped together. If the equation is. 1:1 (the logical one that dictates, killing animals is wrong period)then you are not on the high ethical road you may think yourself. Just sayin.

edit: in other words. The vegans plate is covered with blood, but youll be hard pressed to have them admit it.

I like your position, bud. Good looking out

 

[Ampersand]

I feel as though I'd be remiss not to warn you that if you can't see any difference between killing an animal and killing a plant, then you're probably a sociopath.

Why? Because the plant doesnt have big wet eyes to look at you with? A chain of chemical reactions that are similar to how our nerve system reacts to pain and suffering happens in the plant if you hurt it. It even sends out a chemical warning signal to surrounding plants.

And then there is a F-in hipocricy. I eat apx. 1 cow a year. I know my source so its the same for all the parts of cows I have eaten. For me personally. apx a cow a year. Thats the one single animal that has to die to sustain me. Since it is freerange and only feeds on grass, no animals died to support it beyond the unlucky bugs it munched. Do you hear me. to feed me for a year 1, ONE, UNO, EINZ a single animal has to die for my sustainance.

To feed you the vegan and vegetarian, hundreds of small rodents, birds, reptiles and such has to die. The lucky ones are killed by the combine harvester.....then theres the petrolium based fertilizers, pesticides and such...

So how does your ethical equation work. Pound for pound?. Ill admit, my animal was 400kg heavy, while all those small animals killed on the fields that fed you probably wouldnt weight as much lumped together. If the equation is. 1:1 (the logical one that dictates, killing animals is wrong period)then you are not on the high ethical road you may think yourself. Just sayin.

edit: in other words. The vegans plate is covered with blood, but youll be hard pressed to have them admit it.

Plant's don't feel pain, they don't have any systems in place to interpret what pain is.
It seems a little sadistic that you would pretend that they do. I'm really sorry man but picking a flower isn't exactly like strangling a cat.

Why didn't you mention any of the people killed in farming accidents, I mean it's a pretty dangerous profession and you're bound to pluck on a few of my heart strings if you pull out that little chestnut.

You and I are powerful animals and we are bound to cause a certain amount of damage to those around us just by walking around, that's basically impossible to avoid as much as I do hate to admit it but it is our responsibility not to cause harm or unnecessary death on purpose. I'm not a stranger to the taste of blood but I don't go looking for it.

 

[Treblaine]

I hate the whole human superiority thing. What we do isn't natural.
If a human kills an animal it's acceptable, but if an animal kills a human IT'S EVIL AND DESERVES TO DIE!

Evil is not an absolute construct. It IS relative and subjective.

If aliens come to kill us you can say:

"hey you can't kill me, I'm a vegan"

And see how far that gets you. I think anyone with any common sense would not submit to death just because they did the same to animals with minuscule brains that is barely capable of the most simple thought.

Illusion of moral superiority doesn't count for shit when you're dead.

...What? That's not my point at all and you know it. My point was that nothing makes humans more important than animals. I was using an example. Nothing to do with us surviving.

Humans are more important to humans than animals because we are humans.

To put the locust before the human is catastrophic.

So, just because? That's not a reason. Not one part of the human body makes them superior to other life....

And I'm not putting locusts before humans. That's the exact opposite of my point. I'm saying they're as important as us, not more important. That they have as much right to live as us, and however many human superiority zealots like you there are, nothing changes that.

Who said anything about superior?

To the locust, locusts are more important than humans. To the chimpanzee, chimpanzees are more important than humans or any other species. You have to look out for your species or it will go the way of the dodo.

To put locusts on equal level with humans IS putting humans on a lower level.

You try telling your nonsense to farmers who FEED YOU that he should treat locusts the same respect as human and they'll laugh. You try large scale farming - even entirely vegetables/grain - and see how far you'll get when you are over-run with pests destroying your crop and even your ability to survive.

You can respect a locust's "right to live" as much as you like but it will NEVER respect your right. Swarms of them will destroy your crops and they will eat and reproduce on such a scale with utter disregard to how it will drive you to famine and death.

Only domesticated animals after hundreds of year of breeding and being tamed from birth can come close to respecting human life.

 

[Ampersand]

I love how some say they don't eat living things. Yes, I've heard that one before. So to people who take that stance, quit eating vegetables. They're living too.

I always see someone make this point on these forums.
I feel as though I'd be remiss not to warn you that if you can't see any difference between killing an animal and killing a plant, then you're probably a sociopath.

Also you're not going to win an argument base on semantics.: /

Funny, bud. I don't remember quoting anyone in my previous post, therefore, I don't believe I was arguing anything. I stated an observation that ran through my head that made me chuckle and decided to share it with others. Frankly, it appears that you're the one looking for arguments. Who, exactly, are you to "warn" anyone of anything? Also, who are you to judge the mental state of another person on this forum for posting a random thought. Start your fights elsewhere XD

yeah I realized that after posting, probably should have edited, my bad.
I'd think I'm pretty capable of judging someones medal state to a limited extent, for example if I saw a kid picking flowers I'd probably think he was alright, but if I saw a kid pulling the heads off of chickens for the lols I'd be pretty safe in assuming that there was something pretty wrong with him.
I'm not trying to fight anyone i'm just making an observation. Incidentally if you didn't want anyone to respond to you then why did you post?

 

[Homo Carnivorous]

Plant's don't feel pain, they don't have any systems in place to interpret what pain is.

to interpret pain as WE understand it. Why the speciesism? What we can observe is that if we hurt the plant, a chain reaction of chemicals takes place, one of which is sending out what appear to be a warning to surounding plants. What do you think is going on?

Why didn't you mention any of the people killed in farming accidents

humans usually doesnt count where animal rights activists are concerned. Also if we accept we are an animal, then the amount of our kind that dies compared to those of avian or rodentia variety are so small as to be irrelevant in statistics. For every guy run over by his harvester, how many rodents got the turn?

We still havent established how the ethical equation works. Is it pound for pound or animal for animal or something else?

You and I are powerful animals and we are bound to cause a certain amount of damage to those around us just by walking around, that's basically impossible to avoid as much as I do hate to admit it but it is our responsibility not to cause harm or unnecessary death on purpose.

In that case I strongly encourage you to become a carnivore and find a good supply of food stuff. This way you can minimize the amount of animal suffering to the bare minimum and no crushing from harvesters or slow death by poisoning are involved.

You see, we have to eat. Fact!. So if your ethics dictate to cause as little suffering to animals as possible then you should obviously choose a path that hurts as few animals as possible.

So forgive me if I am confused. There seem to be a mismatch between what you want to achieve and what you are doing.