Bellvedere said:
And there is really not much of a difference between violent video games and violent TV, or violent sports.
I'd still differ.
When playing video games I do not experience violence (in)directly, physically. Thus I, personally, experience videos games as "game, tool, action/reaction, goal". Am I too theoretical? Too much into stories? Then I've been since being a child.
Violent TV is and was, personally, in itself not appealling. Cool effects, yes. Good Martial Arts, yes. "Funny" slapstick-violence (e.g. Bud Spencer), yes. Seeing people just bluntly beat up each other without good reason, no. Just for blood and wounds, no.
Now for sports: Sports are our civilized, more or less pacified version of fighting. With Rules, with goals different from hurting each other. But essentially it's We vs The Enemy.
The human body wants/needs to work out to stay healthy (not just bones and muscles, also on hormonal and endorphine levels). Sports can help this in many ways, though everyone needs to find his/her personal favourite - as a child, there's not much choice, you still have to do the stuff you hate
So, sports is often the "Wolf and Prey" - where I was the dumbfound, bloodied prey obviously :] - This was what made me angry and stirred aggression. The (mindless) violence of others.
In video games this is missing since I cannot take the inhabitants of a game as "real" or "alive". No matter how deeply the immersion, and how much the story takes me with it, it still has no effect whatsoever on the world outside. - I think this is a sign of sanity.
Sure, you're sad when a beloved story-character dies, but that's with every movie or book out there.
There have been studies that have shown that children who play alot of video games show less excitement when playing video games compared to children who play none - very little video games which seems to suggest that prolonged exposure has a desensitising effect. Interactive computer environments have also been used to successfully treat phobias. It stands to reason that in the same way the effects of the treatments can be successfully transferred to real-life situations, so can desenstitization to violence.
1) That a person (whether child or grown-up matters not) is less excited about a task that is common to him/her should neither be much of a surprise, nor be used as an argument for desensitising in this context. As written "it suggests", but is in fact a misleading argument. The same way people playing more Go or Chess have to think less about their next turn compared to people who play none to very little.
2) Scientifically speaking, desensitization to violence is generally possible. With or without active treatment and/or the social experiences and morals gained/lost through life.
Comparing an Interactive Computer Environment to treat a phobia compared to a video game is essentially: A [device designed for a specific task and goal (desensitizing against x)] compared to a [random device which has a different goal (being a game)]. The equal only in using the same tool (the computer) and being designed for a specific goal.
If there truly is a longterm desensitizational effect from a game would have to question the specific game in question of the research. Are there correlations with the way of specific desensitization-tools? Is this true to this specific game? Was this by accident?
What about other games? Is this true for any game?
I think similiar research was done with violent music several years/decades ago.
With violent movies several years/decades ago.
With violent books a whole bunch of decades ago.
Honestly with anything that was somehow new or new to popular society. Which does not mean we shouldn't take a closer look - of course we should, that's what science is for!
What is, sadly, most important is always the question of who funds who's research and thus most likely outcome. - This can hardly be called science in the end. And thus present discussions are as unclear as arguments for and against the cinema-halls of the early last century. Truly it's not that different, but bloats this response to an even more unshapely size.
What I meant is that even if your the good guy, the method of problem solving generally used is to beat up the baddies. This reinforces the idea through repetition that 1. Good guys beat up other people and 2. That violence is a means to get your own way. That's not even looking at stories where you play the bad guy.
Here we can agree. Since this about role models, morals, education. Here lies buried what I always throw at other peoples nostrils and ears and eyes and pieholes:
It's a parents job to watch over their children. And this means upbringing or whatever the correct english term is. Not just "oh look what it does!" Nor parking it in front of a screen with a game that's not meant for it. "It's your damn job, so do it!" (I'm not talking to Bellv. this was just general =) )
In the end: Games with violence are for the big kids, the grown-ups themselves. Like violent movies where for the last generation.
But yes... the least parents now what and which video game is/might be appropriate and which not. Media competence is something only the upcoming generation seems to grow up into, at least slightly, thanks to the internet.
In another perspective games with violence in them can be perceived as yet another mirror of society. Showing us the world we better not want to live in. Just like some old horror movies from Mario Bava. Just the same way as old movies, they show us the deep truth of society. Personally, I'd rather not ban a form of art, intentional or not, I'd rather discuss it.
Which is why, and I'm sorry that this goes possibly off-topic: We have to keep an eye out that things like games and the freedom of the internet get taken from us. The internet is a great tool of free information and hard to control. Which is why some people fear it.
Sure, it's full of shit and the insanity of man. But it wouldn't be the "Biggest and most Complete Mirror of our combined Consciousnesses" if it wasn't
Some people are more violent then others, and I'm not suggesting that video games are a bad idea all together. I just think that we should be aware, and not so defensive over the issue that we are willing to overlook the possible harm it is doing.
True. Some people are also more easily manipulated or their behaviour changed. It's firstly a parents job to watch their kids not fall into the wrong hands - but that's not games alone, they're not the devil or something.
I'd guess: It's just the newest media and people are scared. Also it makes a great feast for news and politicians to distract from important stuff. Let's see what happens if they take from their future voters... All the western countries are full of old people...
Well, in any case... time will tell
