Video Games, Murder Simulators and Controversy

[Ninjat_126]

I'm going to point out a harsh truth here, that I think many people will have done before me.

MOST VIDEO GAMES ARE MURDER SIMULATORS.

Now that isn't true for Nintendogs, or Wii Sports or anything like that. It is true for shooting games, most strategy games, RPGs and most other genres.

The thing is, this isn't exactly a bad thing, compared to unsimulated murder. Video games are great at stress relief and emotional therapy, and provide a great alternative to bashing someone's head in with a sledgehammer. 98% or so of people will not be adversely affected by violent games. The people who do go out and shoot up schools were probably going to anyway, with or without the video games.


And another thing: VIDEO GAMES DESENSITIZE PEOPLE TO VIOLENCE.


Or to be more specific, they desensitize impressionable young children to violence. Like every other form of entertainment.

Back in the days before video games, you still had 6 year old children playing Cowboys & Indians, or Cops & Robbers, or Aliens & Monsters. Video games didn't cause that. Young children are going to learn from any media they see, whether that's Doom, Kick-Ass, Happy Tree Friends, South Park, GTA or anything else. Video games are not the problem.



tl;dr The anti-videogame arguments make sense, but they're missing out on all the important details.

Anything else to add?

EDIT: Ok, "Killing Simulators" rather than "Murder Simulators". Still, the protesters won't stop to explain the difference.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Was anyone really arguing that there wasn't some level of desensitization? I thought that fairly obvious. But no, the argument doesn't make sense, because people are arguing that video games directly cause violence. A load of hogwash.

 

[Ninjat_126]

I'm sure that if we asked around, we'd find heaps of gamers who'd attempted to double-jump when they were kids. That doesn't mean video games are evil, it means that kids are easily deceived. Whole different story.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Not all shooting games are murder simulators. Those that are not war games are murder simulators, sure, but war is not murder. It is killing, but it is not murder as actual murder is murder. It is war. Though, really war is just as natural as goats butting heads, and it is in fact the exact same thing, though our resources and use of tools have made such quarrels rather... eccentric.

Sorry, I just don't react positively when people say that war is murder. I agree it is horrible and all of that, but to me murder should be used to refer to murder, and war to refer to war.

That said... interesting arguments, though, I disagree that violence in media desensitizes people to killing other humans. There is something visceral, deeply rooted in our psyche that turns us away from the idea of killing another person. This is something that I regard as being far too hard a nut to crack than what media can cause. So I end with that grammatically disgusting sentence.

 

[Chibz]

Anything else to add?

I'd like to add that using the same rudimentary arguments that people use against video games I can "prove" that we should ban the bible. The bible describes (and ENDORSES) acts of violence to a degree a video game will likely never do. Even hardcore gore fans will ask you if you're a (mentally) sick individual if you put them in your game.

 

[silver wolf009]

Video games are relativly new. Relativly new is still new. And as we all know, new is bad, therefore, video games are bad. I have now summed up most anti-video games activist thought process.

 

[New Troll]

All you need to ask yourself is 'would you rather me murder someone or release my frustration in a simulator?'

 

[Radeonx]

Well, the experts might have something onto their theories...because I did get a sudden urge to rape someone after playing Bulletstorm.
Satire.

 

[BENZOOKA]

Before video games, kids had to deal more with real life.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Yeah video games can be though of as murder simulators but that's a very odd way of categorizing them. It basically finds a single item in a complex whole and categorized the whole thing by it. The idea of Murder Simulator is a misnomer because it does not address the whole. It's intentionally ignoring everything else in order to sensationalize one part. That's like saying that 80s action movies are "killing tapes" or fantasy book with magic are "black ritual books." When you ignore the context around an idea it can be redefined in a negative way and used as a weapon. In truth removing the context renders it meaningless since its no longer a part of what you are arguing about at all. Recontextualization allows you to say anything about anything.

Also, video games don't desensitize people to violence, they desensitize people to virtual or simulated violence. I've shot up quiet a few bad dudes (to save the president) in my time but if I saw someone get killed it would affect me just as much as anyone else. People make a distinction between fiction and reality and most people identify games as fiction and thus separate from reality. small children can't yet make that distinction due to psychological reason and underdevelopment but really kids that young shouldn't be playing games (I'm talking real young people).

I don't know if I've made my arguments clear or not but, the point is that these arguments have a grain of truth, but are still stilted and incorrect. It's not an issue of taking them and showing them as wrong. When you do that you concede that there points are in some way valid and we, as a community, need to instead point out that the arguments are bullshit and not let them have that ground to start with.

 

[gmergurl]

I'm sure that if we asked around, we'd find heaps of gamers who'd attempted to double-jump when they were kids. That doesn't mean video games are evil, it means that kids are easily deceived. Whole different story.

Oo I can honestly say I have never tried to double jump in my life. I've never known anyone to try to double jump... you might be one we have to watch....

Though I can see the point here, little kids will learn from everything. I will admit that I imitated the little mermaid (disney movie version) but my parentals never really thought anything of it, other than they should've filmed it...

 

[TH3_D15HWA5H3R]

Games cant be blamed for killing someone. If someone plays a game and kills someone its because they are natrually messed up, whos to say if a person plays games frequently and kills someone, is it the games fault or is it the person? some people are just not right, i personally play games and i wouldnt kill a person... unless... no wait nevermind, yer as i was saying games dont kill people crazy people kill people.

 

[Ninjat_126]

The idea of Murder Simulator is a misnomer because it does not address the whole. It's intentionally ignoring everything else in order to sensationalize one part.

When you ignore the context around an idea it can be redefined in a negative way and used as a weapon.

Recontextualization allows you to say anything about anything.

Also, video games don't desensitize people to violence, they desensitize people to virtual or simulated violence.

It's not an issue of taking them and showing them as wrong. When you do that you concede that there points are in some way valid and we, as a community, need to instead point out that the arguments are bullshit and not let them have that ground to start with.

Wow. Thanks, I think you made my real point for me. The Anti Video Game Activists aren't giving the full picture.


Look at the Mass Effect sex scene controversy. They didn't mention how brief the scenes were, or how justified in the story/characterisation, or any other important details. They left as many facts out as they could, then they just made up random crap to stir up more controversy.

I've seen videos of No Russian, and (so far) I haven't decided to shoot up an airport full of unarmed civilians.

 

[ultrachicken]

I'm sure that if we asked around, we'd find heaps of gamers who'd attempted to double-jump when they were kids. That doesn't mean video games are evil, it means that kids are easily deceived. Whole different story.

I've yet to encounter a child who was dumb enough to think they could double jump.

How do the anti-video game arguments make sense? There are no credible statistics to support their arguments, and there is to support the other side, therefore their argument is not sensible.

 

[Ninjat_126]

[Ok, the double jumping thing was kind of a joke.]

I'm trying to say that the arguments make sense on the surface. Most popular video games are about shooting/slicing up the bad guys with guns/lasers/swords. Dead Space 2 had an advertising campaign entirely based around how offensively violent it was. Bulletstorm's main selling point is your ability to kick people in slow motion off cliffs before blasting them in the face with a bouncing, explosive cannonball.


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MurderSimulators
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UltraSuperDeathGoreFestChainsawer3000

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Murder_Simulators_5524.jpg




No matter what games we make, if there's anything in them that could be considered offensive by anyone at all there will be controversy. Therefore, there will be lots of controversy. We'll just need to ride it out, and realise that we're in for some trouble if we want to keep making games like COD, L4D and GTA.

 

[Savagezion]

I'm sure that if we asked around, we'd find heaps of gamers who'd attempted to double-jump when they were kids. That doesn't mean video games are evil, it means that kids are easily deceived. Whole different story.

I've yet to encounter a child who was dumb enough to think they could double jump.

How do the anti-video game arguments make sense? There are no credible statistics to support their arguments, and there is to support the other side, therefore their argument is not sensible.

Well, you haven't met any kids that have admitted they thought there might be something to it. When I was little (Atari) I loved Superman and I was sure as shit it was that cape that made him fly. I wasn't a physics specialist at that age. Needless to say I did try it out and got lucky and only sprained my ankle. When asked why I did it I said the typical kid response, "I don't know". I wasn't about to tell my mom I was testing a theory I had on capes and flight.

There are credible studies against video games and their effects on people. Movies have an effect, TV, comic books, etc. and all other forms of media. One difference is that video games do help nurture one's ability to solve problems. One could also say comics help your reading skills, and TV/moviess can help teach social skills and mannerisms to a degree. (Maybe with L.A. Noire video games might be able to start stepping into that one but right now we aren't even close.)

The problem with all of these studies is that the variable (person being studied) differs from person to person. This in no way invalidates the entire study but just means it isn't pinpoint accurate as to what these effects are. It is pretty apparent at this point and logical after the countless studies that SOME effects are had. Watching someone get their head blown off in a movie/game/TV show will have an effect on a child who doesn't naturally think about mortality and the darker aspects to mankind. This stuff scares them and stays with them for a long time until they adjust mentally to it which is where becoming desensitized comes in.

 

[aaronobst]

Wow. Thanks, I think you made my real point for me. The Anti Video Game Activists aren't giving the full picture.


Look at the Mass Effect sex scene controversy. They didn't mention how brief the scenes were, or how justified in the story/characterisation, or any other important details. They left as many facts out as they could, then they just made up random crap to stir up more controversy.

I've seen videos of No Russian, and (so far) I haven't decided to shoot up an airport full of unarmed civilians.

Here, here

 

[LawlessSquirrel]

Video games are relativly new. Relativly new is still new. And as we all know, new is bad, therefore, video games are bad. I have now summed up most anti-video games activist thought process.

I concur with this. Novels are harmful to the mind and breed insanity, role-playing makes people worship the devil and kill each other, violent movies make people into killers. And don't get me started on rock music and implicitly gay characters on TV...

 

[Zaik]

Murder implies unlawful killing.

That actually narrows it down to games that specifically depict the characters breaking the law. Self defense, vigilantism, war, etc. are not actually murder. Sometimes it's still illegal, but none of the above are ever murder.

What you're actually looking for is "killing simulator". Typically I would not be a language nerd because they would all see the language become stagnant and never change, but there's a reason the word you are using and the word you're actually referring to is entirely different. It changes the meaning a lot.

The last time there was no word in the English language for "unlawful killing" an entire religion was put under the mistaken impression that it wasn't allowed to serve in the military despite having a number of legends of soldiers that won wars and/or hundreds of duels to the death. It is understandably fairly confusing.

Edit: It's actually that they lacked a word for unlawful killing, not lawful. Typical mixup for me.

 

[ultrachicken]

I'm sure that if we asked around, we'd find heaps of gamers who'd attempted to double-jump when they were kids. That doesn't mean video games are evil, it means that kids are easily deceived. Whole different story.

I've yet to encounter a child who was dumb enough to think they could double jump.

How do the anti-video game arguments make sense? There are no credible statistics to support their arguments, and there is to support the other side, therefore their argument is not sensible.

Well, you haven't met any kids that have admitted they thought there might be something to it. When I was little (Atari) I loved Superman and I was sure as shit it was that cape that made him fly. I wasn't a physics specialist at that age. Needless to say I did try it out and got lucky and only sprained my ankle. When asked why I did it I said the typical kid response, "I don't know". I wasn't about to tell my mom I was testing a theory I had on capes and flight.

There are credible studies against video games and their effects on people. Movies have an effect, TV, comic books, etc. and all other forms of media. One difference is that video games do help nurture one's ability to solve problems. One could also say comics help your reading skills, and TV/moviess can help teach social skills and mannerisms to a degree. (Maybe with L.A. Noire video games might be able to start stepping into that one but right now we aren't even close.)

The problem with all of these studies is that the variable (person being studied) differs from person to person. This in no way invalidates the entire study but just means it isn't pinpoint accurate as to what these effects are. It is pretty apparent at this point and logical after the countless studies that SOME effects are had. Watching someone get their head blown off in a movie/game/TV show will have an effect on a child who doesn't naturally think about mortality and the darker aspects to mankind. This stuff scares them and stays with them for a long time until they adjust mentally to it which is where becoming desensitized comes in.

Until you actually cite at least one of these sources, I'm skeptical to really believe any of that.