View From the Road: It's Time to Grow Up
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
I think there is one big thing about all of this that is seriously being ignored.
Not everyone who plays WoW is an adult to begin with.
Sure, there are plenty of them, but there are also a ton of teens that play it as well. And trust me when I say this, teenagers have no freaking clue how to seperate or handle internet fame as compared to RL fame. And tbh, you can't say that it's their own fault either given all the other crap they have to deal with such as make passable grades at least in school or their family and their hormones and such. Not to mention the fact that a lot of 'adults' in their 20s are mentally still incredibly immature so as to not even leave that kind of mindset behind them properly.
And now, by removing anonymity, you'd be asking them to adapt to this too? Heck, they aren't adults as of yet and even the adults don't know how to properly seperate their internet public image and the one that deals with their RL, particularly the ones who still don't have a clue about the things we take we know for granted about how the internet works. Now you're asking some teenagers to learn how to cope with the fact everyone will know their name over the wide net too and thus be free to resort to e-bullying of any kind in case they do something to some jackass they pissed off over WoW? And if you are not asking them to cope with that alone, then you are now asking for parents to what...monitor their interactions even more and cause more friction between them?
I am quite positive there were as many good reasons to reject it in the end as there were reasons to have it go through. And the reasons for it to go through were, to begin with, never about anonymity being the reason for pottymouths on the web, but about making the system more easily interfacable with facebook or battle.net or whichever. This is actually a sound reason for the RealID thing to go through and it's one that makes sense. Disguising it as a flagpost for some kind of freaking 'people must be held accountable' moral highground however is sheer absurdity as far as I'm concerned.
Anonymity protects the unjust many times over and allows anonymous trolling, of course it does. But it protects far many more of the just, who genuinely just don't want to deal with some obsessive arse who they bumped into during a videogame and who will pester them to no end in spite of them not even provoking it. If you doubt such a thing is common, then I assure you...of this you are gravely mistaken. Here's just one of these accounts, well-written and well-thought out on the matter and really...I can't help but agree with it.
http://www.metafilter.com/93492/But-my-name-really-is-Deathblood-Blackaxe#3171416
Heck, I'm not even a girl IRL and I've had this happen to me when I naively let out my RL name once in WoW and I can assure you - it was promptly used against me for purposes of harrassment.
Not everyone who plays WoW is an adult to begin with.
Sure, there are plenty of them, but there are also a ton of teens that play it as well. And trust me when I say this, teenagers have no freaking clue how to seperate or handle internet fame as compared to RL fame. And tbh, you can't say that it's their own fault either given all the other crap they have to deal with such as make passable grades at least in school or their family and their hormones and such. Not to mention the fact that a lot of 'adults' in their 20s are mentally still incredibly immature so as to not even leave that kind of mindset behind them properly.
And now, by removing anonymity, you'd be asking them to adapt to this too? Heck, they aren't adults as of yet and even the adults don't know how to properly seperate their internet public image and the one that deals with their RL, particularly the ones who still don't have a clue about the things we take we know for granted about how the internet works. Now you're asking some teenagers to learn how to cope with the fact everyone will know their name over the wide net too and thus be free to resort to e-bullying of any kind in case they do something to some jackass they pissed off over WoW? And if you are not asking them to cope with that alone, then you are now asking for parents to what...monitor their interactions even more and cause more friction between them?
I am quite positive there were as many good reasons to reject it in the end as there were reasons to have it go through. And the reasons for it to go through were, to begin with, never about anonymity being the reason for pottymouths on the web, but about making the system more easily interfacable with facebook or battle.net or whichever. This is actually a sound reason for the RealID thing to go through and it's one that makes sense. Disguising it as a flagpost for some kind of freaking 'people must be held accountable' moral highground however is sheer absurdity as far as I'm concerned.
Anonymity protects the unjust many times over and allows anonymous trolling, of course it does. But it protects far many more of the just, who genuinely just don't want to deal with some obsessive arse who they bumped into during a videogame and who will pester them to no end in spite of them not even provoking it. If you doubt such a thing is common, then I assure you...of this you are gravely mistaken. Here's just one of these accounts, well-written and well-thought out on the matter and really...I can't help but agree with it.
http://www.metafilter.com/93492/But-my-name-really-is-Deathblood-Blackaxe#3171416
Heck, I'm not even a girl IRL and I've had this happen to me when I naively let out my RL name once in WoW and I can assure you - it was promptly used against me for purposes of harrassment.
Well, I've actually seen people get turned away from jobs because they let it slip they play World of Warcraft, or games in general. Its not a stretch to assume company's would let employees go due to their gaming habits. Especially if they're on the lower end of the company. They won't say they're letting you go because of the games, but they will find some bogus reason.
I was actually turned away from a job at a bakery because I let it slip I like games. Yes I applied for the position of cook at a bakery, I love sweets, and working there would have kicked ass. I was sad.
People do need to start acting like adults, and the public needs to start seeing games as not kid toys/murder simulators. Someone's going to have to make the first move, and with the stubbornness of the general public and the childish outrage of gamers getting in the way, things may not change for a long, long time.
I was actually turned away from a job at a bakery because I let it slip I like games. Yes I applied for the position of cook at a bakery, I love sweets, and working there would have kicked ass. I was sad.
People do need to start acting like adults, and the public needs to start seeing games as not kid toys/murder simulators. Someone's going to have to make the first move, and with the stubbornness of the general public and the childish outrage of gamers getting in the way, things may not change for a long, long time.
Maybe they should make a real id linked MMO for all of the serious adults who want to take total responsibility for promoting a positive responsible image of video gaming. Put it in direct competition with the game where people can forget about their responsibilities and engage in entertaining fantasies. Let the market decide.
Hear Hear.SaintWaldo said:
Why do people rush to prove themselves innocent when we are innocent until proven guilty?
While gaming certainly isn't something that is illegal by any shot of the imagination, I can see why people would like to keep it under their hats. Like a sexual fetish, it's not illegal and some people would be happy enough to talk about it - but private minded folk are not.
But what is happening on the WoW forums would have proven to be the thin end of the wedge for the rest of the internet. The Internet's greatest strength and weakness is that each user is guaranteed a certain amount of anonymity.
As it stands, the only people who can track you down through the internet belong to cyber-divisions of law enforcement and hackers.
If this happened, it would have spread to the rest of the internet and would have made it real easy for any old Tom, Dick and Harry to track anyone else down. Destroying the anonymity of the internet and changing it - I fear - for the worse.
While we have the responsibility to speak with some degree of sensibility, free speech does ultimately give people the right to troll and offend. The anonymity granted by the internet where governmental control by a single nation should remain sacrosanct - as it's the closest thing people can get to truly being free.
But what is happening on the WoW forums would have proven to be the thin end of the wedge for the rest of the internet. The Internet's greatest strength and weakness is that each user is guaranteed a certain amount of anonymity.
As it stands, the only people who can track you down through the internet belong to cyber-divisions of law enforcement and hackers.
If this happened, it would have spread to the rest of the internet and would have made it real easy for any old Tom, Dick and Harry to track anyone else down. Destroying the anonymity of the internet and changing it - I fear - for the worse.
While we have the responsibility to speak with some degree of sensibility, free speech does ultimately give people the right to troll and offend. The anonymity granted by the internet where governmental control by a single nation should remain sacrosanct - as it's the closest thing people can get to truly being free.
If people you know attack gaming, watch how they stutter and backtrack when you attack their favourite hobby. All hobbies are a time and a money sink, in exchange for relaxation (mostly). Heck, I used to tell people that thought spending $15 a month on WoW was silly that I would dare them to find a hobby that was cheaper. I love going to the shooting range, and it's a heck of a lot more expensive than a WoW subscription.
I whole-heartedly agree with everything stated in this article. Gaming isn't anything to be ashamed off, it's about time people realised this.
Then clearly, this article was not addressed at the people who didn't explicitly say "I don't want people knowing I play WoW." That's... not really hard to understand, sorry.SaintWaldo said:
That's your choice. But it should be no different than saying "I'm a Steelers fan." And until people start talking about it, then it won't be.
Sorry to hear that. But until we start being open with it, it won't change. If that means waiting until after you're hired to do it, then so be it. But I have a feeling if it's the sort of job that does that, it's not the sort of place I'd want to be working at anyway.Tenmar said:
I will get less jobs if background checks turn up that I play wow, period. So yes, I was pissed, though obviously Blizzard would've just killed their forums rather than give out everyones names. I'd also expect someone who writes for THE ESCAPIST to know a bit more about escapism than you do.
Your article reminded me of my 'Gamer Culture' speech I gave for my Speech 101 class. I brought in 2 controllers (Gamecube and 360), and went on about who a Gamer is and all that. It was a fun speech for me.
On the employment issue, many aspects of your personal life are not good interview fodder. Even if you're a keen sports fan and mention your favourite team, that might alienate your interviewer who happens to support their cross-town rivals. Your religious views are generally not relevant in an interview either. That's not to say that any of these things are not important, but the interview is there to see if you are right for the job (and if the company is right for you).
Hopefully your gaming is not going to have an impact on your job performance. If it is, then they shouldn't hire you; if it isn't, why talk about it in the interview?
Hopefully your gaming is not going to have an impact on your job performance. If it is, then they shouldn't hire you; if it isn't, why talk about it in the interview?
I guess I'm a little different in that I don't have a problem admitting I play video games (though I've never played WoW which maybe helps?), but I have the stigma that I don't like to actually be seen playing video games.
For me though I have an excuse as it goes back to my childhood and teen years. Starting with a NES I grew up in a family with lots of brothers and a parent who read those women's magazines that told her how bad video games were for us and was extremely strict about playing time to the point that while she knew we had it she didn't want to see us playing it ever, so we had to hide our play time. If she caught us she'd take the console away and hide it somewhere for a month or two, but we'd sneak it back and keep it hidden when we weren't playing until she was ready to 'return' it.
It was fine when all of us were doing it, but as we grew older I was the only one that remained interested in video games in my teen years and had to fend for myself. So while I have no problem admitting it being seen playing is another matter. When you spent your teen gaming years playing alone in your room, listening attentively for the sound of light footsteps coming down the stairs prepared to jump at an instant to hide the controller under the bed and switch inputs, the mental block can be hard to get over.
For me though I have an excuse as it goes back to my childhood and teen years. Starting with a NES I grew up in a family with lots of brothers and a parent who read those women's magazines that told her how bad video games were for us and was extremely strict about playing time to the point that while she knew we had it she didn't want to see us playing it ever, so we had to hide our play time. If she caught us she'd take the console away and hide it somewhere for a month or two, but we'd sneak it back and keep it hidden when we weren't playing until she was ready to 'return' it.
It was fine when all of us were doing it, but as we grew older I was the only one that remained interested in video games in my teen years and had to fend for myself. So while I have no problem admitting it being seen playing is another matter. When you spent your teen gaming years playing alone in your room, listening attentively for the sound of light footsteps coming down the stairs prepared to jump at an instant to hide the controller under the bed and switch inputs, the mental block can be hard to get over.
This article and the discussion it is producing is fantastic. This is a staple of The Escapist and the reason I come here each day and each week. I wish I had something more productive to add to it, but after spending the summer failing miserably at getting any one of tens of jobs, I really can't say much towards discussing passionate games like Warcraft in the workplace. However, I do believe firmly that experiences learned from WoW can be very applicable to the workplace. Also, if an employer finds it as disgusting of a hobby as some commenters point out, and they refuse to accept you, it probably wouldn't be the safest and most enjoyable place to work anyways.
But that doesn't mean that I feel safe revealing that I enjoy playing WoW to an employer, and RealID possibly may have allowed a google search to link you to playing WoW- About this, I feel like it would be helpful for the employer letting them get to know you better. Really, if an employer is using Google to search information about you, that means they are interested in you as an applicant and what to know you better. It can only help you.
This is a fantastic topic for discussion though about internet privacy and employment. Funk, you really know how to get them going.
But that doesn't mean that I feel safe revealing that I enjoy playing WoW to an employer, and RealID possibly may have allowed a google search to link you to playing WoW- About this, I feel like it would be helpful for the employer letting them get to know you better. Really, if an employer is using Google to search information about you, that means they are interested in you as an applicant and what to know you better. It can only help you.
This is a fantastic topic for discussion though about internet privacy and employment. Funk, you really know how to get them going.
Admitting online gaming as a hobby in an interview for a waiter position at a local restaurant(think like a applebee's but actually good) may have gotten me my job.
When i said I was an online gamer the manager said what kinds of games I said world of warcraft and he said he and his son play often and we spent 15 minutes talking about what realm, class, races we play etc.
Two days later i got a call and was hired. Still working there today. This was a little over two years ago.
When i said I was an online gamer the manager said what kinds of games I said world of warcraft and he said he and his son play often and we spent 15 minutes talking about what realm, class, races we play etc.
Two days later i got a call and was hired. Still working there today. This was a little over two years ago.
Good points. I think part of the issue is the generation gap right now. There's quite a few middle aged HR people who's experience with video games is keeping their kids away from them long enough to finish their homework. Or the 30 something who grew up when playing video games stopped being cool in high school.Tenmar said:
While in the past ten years or so video games have largely come out of the proverbial closet, it's probably going to take at least another generation to cycle through before the widespread stigma wears off. Part of getting a job right now is being able to adapt and fit in with your employer, not the other way around.
And heaven forbid you mention something like anime, you'd be labeled as either childish or a pervert.