View From The Road: Seen It All Before
- Thread starter John Funk
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Great article. I applaud innovation when it actually moves things forward and/or provides a new quality experience but innovation or change just for the sake of saying you did something different is pointless. Many people are quick to call most post-WoW MMOs WoW Clones because they have hotbars, highlighted quest givers, etc. but in reality these systems were around long before WoW. They are there because they work and because they make sense to both people familiar with the genre as well as those who are new to it.
This topic brings to mind the current debate over motion controlled games. Sorry motion control fans, but motion controls just aren't better in any way for playing 90%+ of the types of games that people like to play. Just because motion controls are the new shiny doesn't mean they are better than the established method.
This topic brings to mind the current debate over motion controlled games. Sorry motion control fans, but motion controls just aren't better in any way for playing 90%+ of the types of games that people like to play. Just because motion controls are the new shiny doesn't mean they are better than the established method.
Glad to see this article. Innovation does not mean reinventing the wheel over and over again -- it should mean introducing something new, not done before.
Most games that depend on some weird new gimmick fail precisely because of that gimmick -- one good example is FPSs which seem to feel the need to introduce 10 more guns than their predecessor or direct competitor, as if that is what is needed, whereas a truly innovative FPS introduces some new mechanic (like Half Life 2's gravity gun was when it came out).
Most games that depend on some weird new gimmick fail precisely because of that gimmick -- one good example is FPSs which seem to feel the need to introduce 10 more guns than their predecessor or direct competitor, as if that is what is needed, whereas a truly innovative FPS introduces some new mechanic (like Half Life 2's gravity gun was when it came out).
So you want to change things not because they need changing, but for the sake of changing them. See, I can generalize tooHopeless Bastard said:
My point wasn't that everything needs to be generic. It's that by using what's common, what's accepted, and what works for a lot of things, designers can focus on changing things that MATTER.
Man, the rules for chess haven't changed in, like, a thousand years! Where's my innovation?
I love your Article.
I dont understand peoples need for everything to be "Innovative' these days.
i have friends who hate many games just because of how similar it is to another.
A good example is Fire Emblem and Yggdra Union, both games are very Similar, and that's a good thing.
Both have many different elements that set them apart from each other.
But they both have many things extremely similar.
The combat system is one of those thing.
Both are Unit/Class based Strategy games.
Playing YU i felt like i was playing a Darker Fire Emblem..and i loved it.
It took a system that i was familiar with, did just a little bit of tweaking and made a game that i regret selling to this day.
So i don't care if a game has elements just like another, as long as it is a good game that lets me use something familiar to have a fun experience then its a good game in its own right.
And just like you said, some things don't need to change.
And don't worry, we all have TV Tropes issues.
And that's not a bad thing either.
:3
I dont understand peoples need for everything to be "Innovative' these days.
i have friends who hate many games just because of how similar it is to another.
A good example is Fire Emblem and Yggdra Union, both games are very Similar, and that's a good thing.
Both have many different elements that set them apart from each other.
But they both have many things extremely similar.
The combat system is one of those thing.
Both are Unit/Class based Strategy games.
Playing YU i felt like i was playing a Darker Fire Emblem..and i loved it.
It took a system that i was familiar with, did just a little bit of tweaking and made a game that i regret selling to this day.
So i don't care if a game has elements just like another, as long as it is a good game that lets me use something familiar to have a fun experience then its a good game in its own right.
And just like you said, some things don't need to change.
And don't worry, we all have TV Tropes issues.
And that's not a bad thing either.
:3
Stop preemptively stealing my jokes! Are you happy? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Msl57Xfl5u4] Are you?!?!Xandus117 said:
Nice article. The point needs to be brought up every now and then when people criticize things simply because they share elements with other things that are similar.
Yeah, so you vary the types of cover being provided to make sure that it fits with the environment in a naturalistic way, you create tension in novel ways other than "oh I'm being shot right now," and you stay true to the materials i.e. wood won't stop bullets for long, stone can be chipped away, and metal can eventually be blown away. If the cover system in a game is cheap and it sucks, it's not because it's a cover system, it's because the designers didn't do it right.Hopeless Bastard said:
It really shouldn't even be called a "cover system" because it's just "what you do when you're getting shot at." We might as well call pulling the trigger a "firing system."
They might work, its all well and good, but its no reason to be lazy/unoriginal just because they do.
There is always a way to improve things in a way or another. Or maybe make up for it by making the content around the -thing that work- better since you can focus more on them.
There is always a way to improve things in a way or another. Or maybe make up for it by making the content around the -thing that work- better since you can focus more on them.
While I agree with the article for the most part, I think we can all agree that there are some cliches that games could really do without. Doors that will only be opened with one key and can't be blasted open by a rocket launcher, anybody?
I just want to say that I hated HATED how PS2 games would switch Confirm/Cancel between the circle and X buttons. It made it frustrating to switch between games. I totally agree with the article: There are some "Traditions" that should stay exactly that: established standards.
The problem is the balance between finding out where innovations is due and where it's stifling. With the cover system you mentioned, for instance, why wouldn't you allow cover in your game? Because without cover the game plays completely differently. Think of how Duke Nukem 3D or Serious Sam would be like with a cover system - they wouldn't be the same game. So, taking this as an example, a belief that there's no need to 'innovate' the cover system begets several games that don't understand why it exists (to create a slower experience in which precise rather than frantic combat takes place) and we end up with games like GTAIV, in which you spend hours ducking behind a dumpster waiting for a bunch of guys to peek out of a column. It's realistic, sure, that's probably how real life thug firefights go down, but it's not fun at all. Meanwhile, Saint's Row 2 knows what it's doing and presents no cover system, instead opting to let you prevail over your enemies by giving you weapons that in the real world are only found attached to airplanes. I'm not saying frantic is better than precise, but I'm saying SR2 is better at being frantic than GTAIV is at being precise. There are many shooting games that fell into this trap and are too precise to be fun.
A good designer must examine all gameplay clichés and figure out what they exist for and where he can change, come up with something new or even bring back something old. That Rifts game looks like it's headed well, but since I don't care about MMORPGs I have no opinion about it.
A good designer must examine all gameplay clichés and figure out what they exist for and where he can change, come up with something new or even bring back something old. That Rifts game looks like it's headed well, but since I don't care about MMORPGs I have no opinion about it.