View from the Road: The Lesson of Final Fantasy XIII
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
Haha, Yes. Some of those monsters in the final dungeon of FFXIII were actually harder for me than the final boss itself. The problem I had with the game's battle system, though, was the fact that 9 times out of 10, the most efficient attack input method was "Auto Attack" so I usually felt like I wasn't actually controlling anything apart from the occasional Paradigm Shift.
It's true that they tried something new- but think about it. Large, LARGE portions of the game consisted entirely of boring, dialogue-less areas where you face monster after monster, where each fight is a slog, and you find yourself really MISSING when you could just breeze through and get to the story.
The Ark, anyone? NO ONE ENJOYED THAT.
The Ark, anyone? NO ONE ENJOYED THAT.
I sort of agree with this, because you needed to give your ALL in every battle, every battle felt a bit more sloggy than the last and is the primary reason why I have yet to beat FFXIII. Every fight is "such a challenge" that they almost stop being fun.Rain_dog said:
Don't get me wrong, I am FULLY in favor of "being at your best" to start every battle, I just don't think Squeenix did what they should have with it and made the game a breezier experience rather than poorly paced slog.
Some of those normal enemies were rediculous...although some fun in a way...remember meething the huge things on pulse...that was certainly fun.
I jsut wish it had been less of just hitting auto attack all the time though
I jsut wish it had been less of just hitting auto attack all the time though
That Ark can burn in hell...Rain_dog said:
Or they could take the "Man up" approach of Demon's Souls: Murderous "trash" + murderous bosses + limited supplies. It's pretty amazing how a simple mechanics choice can turn a game from "action RPG" to "survival horror RPG".
As for FFXIII, I really did not see the hard trash that you mentioned. You could steam roll through pretty much everything, I don't remember a single trash encounter that was "tightly tuned". I'm ok with decreasing the downtime in such a game though. What I'm not ok is with what they did with the endgame content, meaning the optional hunts after you finish the game. After doing such an amazing job of implementing gradually harder hunts in FFXII, as well as a host of different zones where you could grind without getting bored, FFXIII's endgame design felt like a slap in the face. The hunts are generally all easy, until you get to this fucking guy here:
What you have here is a GINORMOUS jump in difficulty with no content in between. If you want to even stand a chance at beating this guy, you need to have a full party of max level characters with max level weapons. This means you have to grind for about 50 hours for XP as well as money, with nothing else to do and with no host of options to do it like in FFXII. Basically the only way forward is to grind Sacrifices for 50 hours. That is bullshit, and it is because of that shit that the game fell flat on its face for me. I went through the rail-shooter Attack-fest that is the main game, expecting a rich, epic post-game, like in FFXII. But no. It's like they suddenly forgot how to please the hardcore fans in FFXIII. Of course what can you say about a developer who moves from something like the schizophrenic sadistic design of the Great Crystal dungeon in FFXII to the rail-shooter that is FFXIII? It's like the game wasn't even made by the same people and had an entirely different species as a target audience...
As for FFXIII, I really did not see the hard trash that you mentioned. You could steam roll through pretty much everything, I don't remember a single trash encounter that was "tightly tuned". I'm ok with decreasing the downtime in such a game though. What I'm not ok is with what they did with the endgame content, meaning the optional hunts after you finish the game. After doing such an amazing job of implementing gradually harder hunts in FFXII, as well as a host of different zones where you could grind without getting bored, FFXIII's endgame design felt like a slap in the face. The hunts are generally all easy, until you get to this fucking guy here:
What you have here is a GINORMOUS jump in difficulty with no content in between. If you want to even stand a chance at beating this guy, you need to have a full party of max level characters with max level weapons. This means you have to grind for about 50 hours for XP as well as money, with nothing else to do and with no host of options to do it like in FFXII. Basically the only way forward is to grind Sacrifices for 50 hours. That is bullshit, and it is because of that shit that the game fell flat on its face for me. I went through the rail-shooter Attack-fest that is the main game, expecting a rich, epic post-game, like in FFXII. But no. It's like they suddenly forgot how to please the hardcore fans in FFXIII. Of course what can you say about a developer who moves from something like the schizophrenic sadistic design of the Great Crystal dungeon in FFXII to the rail-shooter that is FFXIII? It's like the game wasn't even made by the same people and had an entirely different species as a target audience...
I actually really liked that. I guess it takes a while to get used to it, but ultimately it felt like coaching your own sports team...with swords, spears and lightning spells.Lvl 64 Klutz said:
But the battle system was the only thing I liked about FFXIII.
Completely healing the party after each battle might make it easier to tune, but also takes away the need to manage your items or manage your mana pool in those 'trash battles'. There are plenty of games that manage a good difficulty in random battles without needing to fully heal after each battle, seems to me like FF13 took the easy way out.
Interesting viewpoint; and whilst I certainly appreciated the way the health system works (though I'd like to point out it was also used in The Last Remnant) I found ultimately that the health system seemed almost broken. There was no risk to dying - (and the fact you could re-try any encounters meant there were no interesting surprises) - all enemies can be beaten easily if you know the right strategy; bar a few difficult end-game bosses, so this style of gameplay forced them to stuff the game full of enemies; and it made getting anywhere a chore. I haven't played Final Fantasy XII, but from what I've seen and heard of it I really wish they'd stuck to that style of game...
The Death spell is not a tactic. I have used the spell more than 500 times on different kinds of enemies that ARE susceptible to it, and it NEVER worked, not even once. Anyone who mentions something that has a 1 out of 1000 change of working as a viable tactic needs a slap in the faceD_987 said:
The only thing that I hated about FFXIII was the slow start. Everything else, yes, even the codex, was acceptable. Hey, it's not like it's FFXII or anything. Goddamn that game was terrible.
Really? I've used it against a number of the stronger C'ieth mission monsters and successfully won - often 5 starring them. Guess I'm just a luckier person =PCarnagath said:The Death spell is not a tactic. I have used the spell more than 500 times on different kinds of enemies that ARE susceptible to it, and it NEVER worked, not even once. Anyone who mentions something that has a 1 out of 1000 change of working as a viable tactic needs a slap in the face
I liked 13, the music was good and it was challenging. I mean seriously those frigging dreadnoughts. I wandered off during a mission and ran into one. damn that wasnt fun
It does? Huh.
Now I really am interested in FFXIII, because I loved the way BKO handled that mechanic. And I certainly do agree with the other point, as well. It's always frustrating when I have to convince myself not to use some otherwise costly power (not an item, but an ability) because "I might need it later." The balancing around the resultant capability is intriguing.
Wish I had a console to run the game...
Well... they weren't designed by the same people, different teams have worked on different Final Fantasies for ages. FFXII was initially designed by the mastermind behind the FF:Tactics titles who then had a serious health breakdown at which point the game was taken over by a pair of different directors. I believe that FFXIII was worked on primarily by the FFX-2 team (FFX-2 being considered a side title rather than a key entry in the series).Carnagath said:
Yeah, FFXII was terrible. After all, it only had the most massive, open, populated and varied world to ever appear in a JRPG, did away with the combat transition cutscenes that everyone outside of Japan loathes, and had the deepest customizable party AI system ever developed, which allowed for some fiendishly clever boss tactics (such as Omega Mk.12), a system that Bioware shanelessly copy pasted into Dragon Age but completely failed to utilize. Oh well...opinions, right?Tehlanna TPX said:
You forgot to mention the deep history and realistic political plot populated by well motivated villains who had good reasons for what they were doing and didn't just fall into generic JRPG villain tropes like trying to destroy the world because of mommy/daddy issues.Carnagath said:
Admittedly I did often find myself getting into a battle and just pressing A A A A to auto attack...with the occasional Paradigm Shift. Some battles were stupid like against the Adamantoise or any other variation.
Also, most battles gave very little Crystarium Points I found...I would run up and down the same corridor for ages just killing the same enemies (a prime example of this is getting enough for Fang to use Highwind just before I fought the Proudclad for the first time).
I liked FFX-2's battle system. Dress-spheres aside, I liked the ATB gauge, but also the fact that more than one character could attack at a time. Was always fun if like...a wolf was running towards me to attack and I'd sword it in the face first.
About the only good thing about that game...well, that and Gippal.
Also, most battles gave very little Crystarium Points I found...I would run up and down the same corridor for ages just killing the same enemies (a prime example of this is getting enough for Fang to use Highwind just before I fought the Proudclad for the first time).
I liked FFX-2's battle system. Dress-spheres aside, I liked the ATB gauge, but also the fact that more than one character could attack at a time. Was always fun if like...a wolf was running towards me to attack and I'd sword it in the face first.
About the only good thing about that game...well, that and Gippal.