View from the Road: What Do WoW and Twilight Have in Common?

[Jandau]

The problem with Twilight is that as far as I've seen (having endured the two movies), there ARE real vampires in that world. There were those "evil" ones in the first movie, and the second has the Volturi (or whatever they are called). So there are proper vampires there, only the story seems to revolve around the wussy ones.

Also, the whole "survives in the sunlight" thing is kinda a deal breaker there, since "killed by the sun" is likely the second most defining feature of what we consider as Vampires, with the whole Blood Drinking being the only more prominent feature...

 

[Arcanist]

Twilight "vampires" fail because if they did exist, they'd break major laws of physics, chemistry, biology, anthropology and many other natural laws. And if you disregard those laws, without providing suitable laws to sustain them, they fail under their own laws.

...because dying, then re-animating while dead purely by ingesting the blood of living creatures and, in the process, gaining strength, speed, and possibly the ability to shapeshift into, say, a bat doesn't break any laws of physics, biology, etc., amirite? I don't recall reading any convincing explanation for how any of that happens, why it works, or why some vampires can basically say, "Screw the rules, I have plot armor!" and be godlike without the usual explanation ("I'm a million years old" or "I drank the blood of a god") to support the power they're throwing around.

Your kung fu is weak.

It's an issue because Meyer said that she feels her vampires are scientifically sound.

I'm not joking. She really said that she thinks she can explain her 'vampires' scientifically. If she had just left it to 'magic, lolz', we'd be willing to suspend our disbelief. But since she decided to be 'different' and 'edgy' by cooking up bullshit explanations, the intelligent man must take issue.

 

[Ranorak]

I'm pretty sure Count Dracula didn't vaporize when exposed to sunlight. In fact, I'm pretty sure the final confrontation in the novel happened at day time on an open field and they had to go through the trouble of putting a stake through his heart.

By the way, you forgot the elves that are ecological zealots who eat who they kill in battle. [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/]

Unless you refer to the Blood Elves.

Where the majority thrives on arcane magic.

And that's exactly the point that John Funk made.

Come to think of it, Blood elves are a lot like the Vampires from Twilight.
They drain mana/blood.
They're all girly.
They sparkle.
They might be vegan. (all that magic made meat is magic made)

I'm going to roll a Blood Elf Deathknight and call it Edward!

 

[Shjade]

Twilight "vampires" fail because if they did exist, they'd break major laws of physics, chemistry, biology, anthropology and many other natural laws. And if you disregard those laws, without providing suitable laws to sustain them, they fail under their own laws.

...because dying, then re-animating while dead purely by ingesting the blood of living creatures and, in the process, gaining strength, speed, and possibly the ability to shapeshift into, say, a bat doesn't break any laws of physics, biology, etc., amirite? I don't recall reading any convincing explanation for how any of that happens, why it works, or why some vampires can basically say, "Screw the rules, I have plot armor!" and be godlike without the usual explanation ("I'm a million years old" or "I drank the blood of a god") to support the power they're throwing around.

Your kung fu is weak.

It's an issue because Meyer said that she feels her vampires are scientifically sound.

I'm not joking. She really said that she thinks she can explain her 'vampires' scientifically. If she had just left it to 'magic, lolz', we'd be willing to suspend our disbelief. But since she decided to be 'different' and 'edgy' by cooking up bullshit explanations, the intelligent man must take issue.

That's not an issue that somehow makes "regular" vampires adhere to known physics/biology/etc. Author craziness aside, Twilight vamps are no less realistic than non-Twilight vamps, in general.

 

[JEBWrench]

Perhaps it isn't the different interpretation at all, but rather the medium in which they're being interpreted. That is, we hate Edward Cullen not because he's a vegetarian vampire who sparkles in the sunlight, but because he's a vegetarian vampire who sparkles in the sunlight in an obscenely popular book aimed at young girls that isn't particularly good. If Edward made his debut in Blade or Buffy or Angel, maybe geeks would have been all over that.

That is the only reason.

And Senor Funk, I'm disappointed. You didn't even mention Dwarves from Scandinavian mythology. Black-haired, pale-skinned, and regular sized!

Addendum: All vampires should be like Nosferatu.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

...because dying, then re-animating while dead purely by ingesting the blood of living creatures and, in the process, gaining strength, speed, and possibly the ability to shapeshift into, say, a bat doesn't break any laws of physics, biology, etc., amirite?

Many, but it supports those changes within the mythology.

I don't recall reading any convincing explanation for how any of that happens, why it works, or why some vampires can basically say, "Screw the rules, I have plot armor!" and be godlike without the usual explanation ("I'm a million years old" or "I drank the blood of a god") to support the power they're throwing around.

I'd take a look at the Bible, where Caine - the first murderer - is cursed to wander the Earth forever - and then Lilith.
Or you can say, like the Bumblebee, that it's a creation of the Devil's, in mockery of the Lord's work - so that it has to feed on the Lord's creatures.
(It doesn't have to be a GOOD explanation, it just has to have one that doesn't contradict it's own rules)

Your kung fu is weak.

But my aikido is really strong.

-I find myself compelled to write a story in which vampires not only sparkle in the sun but sustain themselves not on blood but on a strict diet of Zima and Tic Tacs and somehow make it good.

And if you can manage the last one (I believe there's a Malkavian that exists only on words), then you'll have done better than Meyer.

 

[Shjade]

I don't recall reading any convincing explanation for how any of that happens, why it works, or why some vampires can basically say, "Screw the rules, I have plot armor!" and be godlike without the usual explanation ("I'm a million years old" or "I drank the blood of a god") to support the power they're throwing around.

I'd take a look at the Bible, where Caine - the first murderer - is cursed to wander the Earth forever - and then Lilith.
Or you can say, like the Bumblebee, that it's a creation of the Devil's, in mockery of the Lord's work - so that it has to feed on the Lord's creatures.

I'm familiar with Cain. I don't recall him wandering the Earth forever after having died and come back to life. He's immortal, not undead. Also, "God says so" doesn't have anything to do with physics or the other sciences you listed.

Not as familiar with Lilith. One of the pre-Eves, yes?

What is "the Bumblebee?"

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I'm familiar with Cain. I don't recall him wandering the Earth forever after having died and come back to life. He's immortal, not undead.

But it "makes sense", doesn't it? There's nothing inherently contradictory there.

Also, "God says so" doesn't have anything to do with physics or the other sciences you listed.

Depending on your viewpoint, yes it does. It could easily be "Because a wizard/genegineer/ripperdoc says so, as long as the "rules" are set out.

Not as familiar with Lilith. One of the pre-Eves, yes?

Yep, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith, whole strain of mythology that you can draw from there.

What is "the Bumblebee?"

One of the Just So Stories, I believe, had that the bumblebee was created by the Devil from all of the precious minerals. But it didn't have any life as life can only come from God, so the Devil stole a tear. This brought the bee to life, but made it so sad that it can only feel better by collecting pollen for it's whole life.

It's better told by Kipling.

Thing is, it's an explanation that allows the reader to instantly understand what a creature is capable of and incapable of. If Vlad Teppes can go out in sunlight, Stoker's Dracula avoids it and Buffy's lot turn into dust - they can all still be Vampires - there's reasoning why each one has their own weaknesses and strengths, based from the original stories.

Edward et. al. break the fundamental rules, and never conform to any new ones. If Meyer's Vampires are diamond-hard, sunlight/holywater/faith/wood/rice (Yep, that's where Count von Count sticks to the myths - if you drop rice in front of a Jiangshi (Hopping Vampire) it has to count them), bloodthirsty, antisocial SoB's; why isn't Edward long dead and those Vampires running the Earth Matrix-style, with humans as feed-tanks.

I'm not even touching on imprinting (Rape/Paedophilia is good, apparently), canine cesarean, spine-breaking, author insertion or any other such horrors.

But, even the plumber in a porno whose come to "fix the pipes" still has a wrench in his hand to start with.

 

[bismarck55]

I think what root of all evil is saying is that twilight is internally inconsistent, That it breaks it's own rules (correct me if I'm wrong).

I've never liked vampires anyway.

EDIT: I guess root sort of ninja'd me there.

 

[Akiada]

Excellent article, and it raises a valid point. Though I feel there are certain rules one must satisfying to qualify as a certain type of critter. You can't very well have vampires that are normal cacti, after all. Those are cacti, not vampires no matter how much you call them that.

Now! If your cacti drank blood with their needles rather than water....

I always just assumed it was Masquerade rules, with different kinds being different clans. Dracula was Ventrue, Nosferatu was...Nosferatu, and Cullen was Tremere. In the second Masquerade game, it's hinted that sunlight doesn't kill the vamps, that it's just a tool to keep the vampires out of sight and control them. I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the working over zombies have gotten, they weren't even originally dead.

OT: I'm taking option B, that Worgen is furrybait.

Dracula is so Gangrel (the man turns into a bat! a Wolf! MIST!). Cullen is also so stereotypical Toreador it's not funny, what is funny that you'd think him Tremere, which is a clan of total neeeeerds.

 

[JEBWrench]

Dracula is so Gangrel (the man turns into a bat! a Wolf! MIST!). Cullen is also so stereotypical Toreador it's not funny, what is funny that you'd think him Tremere, which is a clan of total neeeeerds.

Sparkling = Presence 5?

 

[latenightapplepie]

Huh. I hadn't really thought about it before. Not that I was raging against the Worgen or Twilight vampires.

When I think about it, I didn't really even mind that much that the elves were portrayed in Dragon Age: Origins as short and oppressed. And I'm a fan of alternately-designed elves.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

EDIT: I guess root sort of ninja'd me there.

That's what I do But yes, even Trolls 2 is internally consistent, and that has some hookey-science like you would not believe. Attack of the Fifty Foot Woman - natch.

Otherwise you have no way of relating to it - and as such - you're purely following what the author/writer/designer tells you. There's no "reason" why Edward can't remake himself a virgin, thus deflowering the whole "I've waited for you forever" angle.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

My sister's reaction to the Twilight series was a prime example. I was saying something about vampires, and she was basically claiming that Twilight held the true vampires, and that it should be a gospel to what they really are. Drinking blood and having to stay out of the sun? No no, it turns out those are all lies!
The arguments that literally hundreds of years of folklore cannot be washed away by a single book written in the 21st century by some woman didn't get far.

 

[Pingieking]

Lots of truth in that article. Unfortunately, truth isn't powerful enough to undo the wrongs done by Twilight and it's horrible acting+writing.

 

[Tiagojdferreira]

I think the problem about vampires and werewolves is that they're not just fantasy creatures but rather part of the folk of various cultures. Also, you must remember that most of the fantasy creatures you described early appear within fantasy. All tolkien fantasy species appear in a fantasy world. Same goes for orcs in warcraft and so on. But vampires and werewolves appear most of the time in a real world, in cities or villages that you know exist or existed throughout history.
Vampires and werewolves are part of our culture, and this bound exceeds fantasy.

 

[bismarck55]

EDIT: I guess root sort of ninja'd me there.

That's what I do But yes, even Trolls 2 is internally consistent, and that has some hookey-science like you would not believe. Attack of the Fifty Foot Woman - natch.

Otherwise you have no way of relating to it - and as such - you're purely following what the author/writer/designer tells you. There's no "reason" why Edward can't remake himself a virgin, thus deflowering the whole "I've waited for you forever" angle.

While I don't actually know anything about Twilight's plot beyond what I can divine from the movie trailers, I agree that it is incredibly annoying when authors/directors simply "force" things into their story with no regard for the rules and logic that they themselves already established.

 

[I am Spy]

Funk wins again. Thank you.

As for your Worgen, the only logical choice is hunter. A Werewolf with a pet wolf riding a wolf wearing armour made out of wolves? It doesn't get much wolfier than that!

 

[BrotherRool]

I agree with you on the werewolves, but a big thing about all the interpretations you named is that they enhanced the idea of the character and work within certain bounds and ideas. Elves have long lives, and people have modified that so that they can deal with the obsession with death that comes with age, or to give the character more dynamic. We have the "good" dark elves because the subversion contrasts perfectly with the normal outset and delves into the ideas of grey morality and redemption which are popular. Vampire weaknesses come and go as is required to make an interesting believable character.All the flaws were added because they brought something interesting to the table (like Vampires with OCD) or removed because they were a nusiance.

But glittering? No I'll never accept a vampire that glitters.