View from the Road: What Do WoW and Twilight Have in Common?
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
I have to say Funk that you raise a good point and you present it well. It's also come to my attention that the more rational and resonably presented the arguement the more likely you are to get such reasonable responses such as ^above, Even when they appose your views.The_root_of_all_evil said:
I agree that Twilight vampires are techniclly vampires, I just dont think theyre very GOOD vampires. The notion that they Sparkle is just horrible (On top of everything else). BUt of course thats just my opinion. I guess Steph' Was just cashing in on the fact that most people li- Ohhhhhh......Shiny object..........
I want to agree with you, Funk, but I've stood on both sides of this argument in the past, and find it more interesting to play the Devil's Advocate here. I will try to do that.
I don't think fiction should strictly adhere to certain archetypes. On the opposite, I support imagination and experimentation, trying out new ideas, twisting familiar concepts into new angles. But is there a point where this new concept strays too far from what we've come to accept? Where is the line drawn between "a new interpretation of X" and "that's nothing like X at all"? Is there even such a line? There might be.
If my interpretation of a vampire is that of a kindly creature that glitters in the sunlight, can drink blood only if it wants to, behaves in the same way as humans do, and tends to helps old ladies cross the road at night, is it still a vampire?
Maybe some of you will say "Yes, it is a vampire if you want to be vampire, since you're the author here". Okay, I agree to that. I've taken the role of author and if I so want it I can make my vampires to be large fat mammals that eat grass and produce milk. These may be called vampires, but they're not GOOD vampires. I've strayed so far from the base concept, from what we've come to expect of vampires, that calling it a vampire is no longer appropriate. I'll call it a "Cow".
And that's sort of the point I'm probably not doing a very good job at making. Whether right or wrong, whether we should or shouldn't, we've come to expect certain characteristics from certain concepts, and straying too far from these expectations might yield a concept that shares the same name, but none of the spirit.
Vampires and werewolves have been done so much by popular culture that we may have simply grown more resistant and more critical to new interpretations of these old concepts than others.
I don't think fiction should strictly adhere to certain archetypes. On the opposite, I support imagination and experimentation, trying out new ideas, twisting familiar concepts into new angles. But is there a point where this new concept strays too far from what we've come to accept? Where is the line drawn between "a new interpretation of X" and "that's nothing like X at all"? Is there even such a line? There might be.
If my interpretation of a vampire is that of a kindly creature that glitters in the sunlight, can drink blood only if it wants to, behaves in the same way as humans do, and tends to helps old ladies cross the road at night, is it still a vampire?
Maybe some of you will say "Yes, it is a vampire if you want to be vampire, since you're the author here". Okay, I agree to that. I've taken the role of author and if I so want it I can make my vampires to be large fat mammals that eat grass and produce milk. These may be called vampires, but they're not GOOD vampires. I've strayed so far from the base concept, from what we've come to expect of vampires, that calling it a vampire is no longer appropriate. I'll call it a "Cow".
And that's sort of the point I'm probably not doing a very good job at making. Whether right or wrong, whether we should or shouldn't, we've come to expect certain characteristics from certain concepts, and straying too far from these expectations might yield a concept that shares the same name, but none of the spirit.
Vampires and werewolves have been done so much by popular culture that we may have simply grown more resistant and more critical to new interpretations of these old concepts than others.
John...for all your great points...you skipped the most important fact.
They are NOT werewolves...simply because THEY ARE WORGEN! Cmon its the bloody damn official name Blizzard gave them
we call em werewolves cuz they check on the check list u gave but....fact is...they are not...they are a WoW version.....as u say a new approach to the werewolves...
and tbh even if they call em pinkytoes....id still say....WOLVERINE FTW that was the 1st thought on my mind...."WTF Ally`s are getting wolverine????"
They are NOT werewolves...simply because THEY ARE WORGEN! Cmon its the bloody damn official name Blizzard gave them
we call em werewolves cuz they check on the check list u gave but....fact is...they are not...they are a WoW version.....as u say a new approach to the werewolves...
and tbh even if they call em pinkytoes....id still say....WOLVERINE FTW
that was the 1st thought on my mind...."WTF Ally`s are getting wolverine????"
I'm too busy being incensed by the furry porn star modelling of the female Worgen, while the male gets to look like a proper beast. Seriously, what is that about? I want to play a female werewolf. That means I have a sexy human female but she turns into a wolf, not a taller, bustier, hairier version of herself.
I try to be accepting of variants on the classic monsters of folklore. In most cases, I think they're pretty darn cool and clever. But for me, there needs to be some kernel of semblance to the original, the source material, in order for me to accept it as a variant. Sparkly vegetarians are, for me, simply too distant from either the classic Don'tgonearthe Castle baron or the real original of peasant superstition for me to accept as vampires. At that point, it's the application of a monster label to something that, without said label, isn't really much of a monster. But that's me, and I wouldn't be me (or much of a nerd at all) if certain bits of nonexistence weren't personally-invested serious business.
I'm pretty sure Count Dracula didn't vaporize when exposed to sunlight. In fact, I'm pretty sure the final confrontation in the novel happened at day time on an open field and they had to go through the trouble of putting a stake through his heart.
By the way, you forgot the elves that are ecological zealots who eat who they kill in battle. [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/]
By the way, you forgot the elves that are ecological zealots who eat who they kill in battle. [http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/]
The reason I can't accept Twilight vampires: they're poorly written characterless wusses claiming to be from the same group that once haunted my nightmares.
The reason I can accept the WoW Worgen: they're cursed humans so badly feared that they walled their own kingdom off to stop it spreading to the rest of the world.
See the difference? One preserved the themes ingrained in a favorite monster for me while taking their own spin on it, the other pissed all over the beloved beasts while stealing their names.
That being said, the absolute best versions of Werewolves and Vampires are from World of Darkness, once you've read some of that Lore you'll hate every other use of them.
The reason I can accept the WoW Worgen: they're cursed humans so badly feared that they walled their own kingdom off to stop it spreading to the rest of the world.
See the difference? One preserved the themes ingrained in a favorite monster for me while taking their own spin on it, the other pissed all over the beloved beasts while stealing their names.
That being said, the absolute best versions of Werewolves and Vampires are from World of Darkness, once you've read some of that Lore you'll hate every other use of them.
Been saying this for years. In fact, if you look at most vampire media, for instance, you'll find that subverting the tropes is pretty common. In HBO's True Blood, vampires can't go in the sun, but they aren't afraid of crosses or garlic. Turns out that's just rumors they spread over the centuries so humans wouldn't learn their actual weaknesses. However, they also are completely allergic to silver, a trait normally assigned to werewolves. In an early episode, the main vampire character is completely helpless, incapable of moving at all, because someone draped a small silver chain (if I remember correctly it was like a necklace or a bracelet) across his chest, and it left nasty burn marks.
In a way, it's almost more shocking to find the stereotypes *followed* anymore.
In a way, it's almost more shocking to find the stereotypes *followed* anymore.
Funk, you make a good point, but keep in mind that archetypes do need to have something in common if they want to be considered as such.
An example- Say I want to write about a unicorn, but want to put my own spin on it. So I make the unicorn a bear, take away the horn, replace it with a Ford Fiesta, and gave it super-powers that had no relation to anything else. I wouldn't be very justified in calling it a unicorn, would I?
Vampires are universally associated with disease, while werewolves are bestial rage and agony. As long as those 'themes' are in use to some extent, you can twist and turn the concept in many interesting and unusual ways, all the while knowing that you're holding fast to the idea of a 'vampire' or a 'werewolf'.
And my worgen will be a Warlock. And he will be named Cursecubed, as he is a cursed curser cursing others.
An example- Say I want to write about a unicorn, but want to put my own spin on it. So I make the unicorn a bear, take away the horn, replace it with a Ford Fiesta, and gave it super-powers that had no relation to anything else. I wouldn't be very justified in calling it a unicorn, would I?
Vampires are universally associated with disease, while werewolves are bestial rage and agony. As long as those 'themes' are in use to some extent, you can twist and turn the concept in many interesting and unusual ways, all the while knowing that you're holding fast to the idea of a 'vampire' or a 'werewolf'.
And my worgen will be a Warlock. And he will be named Cursecubed, as he is a cursed curser cursing others.
First of all, I don't rat on Twilight for being Twilight, I just rat on it because of its rabid fanbase that won't shut the hell up about it.
Now that that's out of the way, I would like to read a romance novel about vampires, it's just that Stephanie's version of vampires doesn't really tickle my fancy. Over the years, vampires have been accepted as fearsome creatures of the night that seduce our women and use them for sustenance, while as Steph's version is more about some sparkly guy (seriously, why do they sparkle? I understand it's a drawback to going out in the sun, but why sparkle? Is it just a quick way to identify a vampire so everyone can kill him or is it something to just blind everyone with and have Edward be accused of being gay and hence ostracized? What?) hung up over some girl. It just sounds like a badly-written romance novel that features dudes that sparkle and have a thing for blood. It just seems like it's all badly presented and probably could have been done better, that includes the idea of a sparkly vampire. Then again, I probably shouldn't have judged something that's marketed towards 14-year old girls... wow... now I feel like an moron.
Now, the Worgen on the other hand... I'm screaming "FURRYBAIT." But still, they seem like werewolves to me.
Now that that's out of the way, I would like to read a romance novel about vampires, it's just that Stephanie's version of vampires doesn't really tickle my fancy. Over the years, vampires have been accepted as fearsome creatures of the night that seduce our women and use them for sustenance, while as Steph's version is more about some sparkly guy (seriously, why do they sparkle? I understand it's a drawback to going out in the sun, but why sparkle? Is it just a quick way to identify a vampire so everyone can kill him or is it something to just blind everyone with and have Edward be accused of being gay and hence ostracized? What?) hung up over some girl. It just sounds like a badly-written romance novel that features dudes that sparkle and have a thing for blood. It just seems like it's all badly presented and probably could have been done better, that includes the idea of a sparkly vampire. Then again, I probably shouldn't have judged something that's marketed towards 14-year old girls... wow... now I feel like an moron.
Now, the Worgen on the other hand... I'm screaming "FURRYBAIT." But still, they seem like werewolves to me.