View from the Road: When I Was a Pirate

mad825

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I think pirates are selfish jerks who just want stuff for free
hmm, quite the contrary.

one can argue the fact that pirates are adopting a form of socialism/anarchism, usually there is more of a political reason behind pirating however people who do sell pirated martial are usually cheapskates.

in either the case, no matter how you feel about pirating, it will always happen.
pirates or copyright infringer's, have existed ever since the first man thought of copying off another person, this is not due being a "selfish jerk" but a matter of evolution where the cheater will try to gain the most while losing the least, greed is not one-dimensional as its there for a reason.
 

Outright Villainy

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John Funk said:
Exactly.

You don't get everything you want because WAAHHHH I WANT IT NOW. For Christ's sake, people went without for the whole of human civilization. Kids with noses pressed up against the windows of stores looking at the thing they want and saving their allowance. They don't get a Red Ryder BB Gun away because they think they're entitled to it.

It's a rationalization, and it's total bunk.
I agree with this sentiment a lot. I can't afford games at all, but I don't try some weak rationalising to justify pirating. I'll eat some 30 cent noodles for a few weeks, or I won't buy the damn thing. People really need to stop feeling entitled to every little thing that takes their fancy, you know, just because.
 

Delta2501

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"That said, I do think there's a limit of time for pirating games--pirating new stuff, where the game can still easily be found on shelves is theft. Running a ROM on an emulator of something the company doesn't sell anymore, and therefore earns no profit for anymore, is more akin to browsing a library. I'm uncertain of where I put very obscure titles in that system, because it feels like one of those things where the thought would be to say "if you can find it on a shelf, then get it that way, otherwise, browse the library"."

That may have been more true in the past (though sales do not stop a month or two after release), but now that older games are available online (on steam, or old nintendo titles on the wii shop for example) you now have a method of providing money to people who own the intellectual property, so the "my money doesn't go to them anyway" excuse doesn't really apply in the majority of cases.
 

Jordi

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For all the judgement that the author is dealing out about Western piracy, I feel the article is sorely missing a judgement of Chinese piracy. Maybe it's (more) okay to pirate a game if there is no way you could normally afford it, it is not translated into your language, not sold in your country and piracy is the norm. It sure sounds like it.

The underlying truth is of course that for the developer there is exactly no difference between someone not buying a game and someone pirating that game. Both scenario's have the exact same outcome for the developer and one of them makes at least one person happy. You can call that a bullshit justification, but it is simply the truth. Whether someone spends their time playing outside or playing some video game, doesn't affect anyone but that person.

I still think piracy is bad as a general phenomenon, but it's evilness is often grossly exaggerated.
 

sougo13

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This story remind me of my home country in Vietnam. You're right, there is no point in combat piracy in countries like these because there's literally no game being release there. The only way to get these game is to pirate them, unless if you're rich - and speak english or another language.

I even remember those 'PS2 Cafe' where you can pay per hour to play on the consol. (Oh, good times...)

It's also very funny to see people already defending piracy in the first page.
 

John Funk

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Jordi said:
For all the judgement that the author is dealing out about Western piracy, I feel the article is sorely missing a judgement of Chinese piracy. Maybe it's (more) okay to pirate a game if there is no way you could normally afford it, it is not translated into your language, not sold in your country and piracy is the norm. It sure sounds like it.

The underlying truth is of course that for the developer there is exactly no difference between someone not buying a game and someone pirating that game. Both scenario's have the exact same outcome for the developer and one of them makes at least one person happy. You can call that a bullshit justification, but it is simply the truth. Whether someone spends their time playing outside or playing some video game, doesn't affect anyone but that person.

I still think piracy is bad as a general phenomenon, but it's evilness is often grossly exaggerated.
The difference is, the developer is trying to sell the game to you in one case, whereas it's not even trying to sell the game over there. And maybe it shouldn't be. Maybe there's no point to it.
 

MaltesePigeon

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I love people here keep saying pirates are unethical instead of saying that pirates don't share typical ethical beliefs.

Pirate:
"I get what I want for free. I just take it. I don't care about some far off development team. I don't care if everyone downloads my hack and the development team goes under. There will always be more development teams, because enough people still buy games. If this attitude pisses you off, tough titties. I don't care.
Catch me if you can, oh wait you can't possibly catch me and ALL the other video game pirates and movie pirates and music pirates on the internet."
 

Voltano

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John Funk said:
You are taking something that someone spent time and money on, for free, when they have the right to receive money for their hard work.
I'd have to disagree with that a pirate is actually "taking" the game from the developers. If I "took" the game I'd have to get in their office, take the hard-drive/media containing the actual game, and then claim it as my own. A person could spend time and money to make a car that could get stolen, but anything that is digital these days are so easy to copy that implying the words "stolen" or "taking" confuses me. Trying to steal something that is abundant/easy to copy is like a person claiming they are stealing air or water, in my opinion.

However I do agree that because software is easy to copy that it is becoming an issue for developers, especially with China, and it should be something that has to be resolved. I think the problem is most people tend to think anything digital is an exclusive item--an economic term where an item is denied to consumers unless they pay for it. Obviously that is not true in China as you pointed out in your experience there. Offering other services with the product as you pointed out is a good work-around, though I don't know why they limit this just to multiplayer services. What if they sold add-ons to those games? Like more items/enemies or tutorials on how to make independent games from that game, similar to the editor for "Dragon Age"?
 

Fearzone

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The answer to this particular problem is for China to stop suppressing the value of their currency. Videogames would become easier to afford for Chinese because their currency would be worth more, free of pegs to the U.S. dollar.
 

Jordi

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MaltesePigeon said:
I love people here keep saying pirates are unethical instead of saying that pirates don't share typical ethical beliefs.

Pirate:
"I get what I want for free. I just take it. I don't care about some far off development team. I don't care if everyone downloads my hack and the development team goes under. There will always be more development teams, because enough people still buy games. If this attitude pisses you off, tough titties. I don't care.
Catch me if you can, oh wait you can't possibly catch me and ALL the other video game pirates and movie pirates and music pirates on the internet."
Other pirate:
"I'm not sure if game X is going to be any good. I want to vote with my wallet, like the anti-piracy people are saying, but I really want to vote based on how much I like the game, rather than how much I like their marketing campaign, so I'm just going to try it out first."

Another pirate (possibly Chinese):
"I can't realistically buy game X. It won't affect anyone if I play it anyway."

Yet another pirate:
"Data wants to be free!"

etc.

You're right, there are many different kinds of people with slightly different ethics.
 

TsunamiWombat

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Voltano said:
John Funk said:
You are taking something that someone spent time and money on, for free, when they have the right to receive money for their hard work.
I'd have to disagree with that a pirate is actually "taking" the game from the developers. If I "took" the game I'd have to get in their office, take the hard-drive/media containing the actual game, and then claim it as my own. A person could spend time and money to make a car that could get stolen, but anything that is digital these days are so easy to copy that implying the words "stolen" or "taking" confuses me. Trying to steal something that is abundant/easy to copy is like a person claiming they are stealing air or water, in my opinion.

However I do agree that because software is easy to copy that it is becoming an issue for developers, especially with China, and it should be something that has to be resolved. I think the problem is most people tend to think anything digital is an exclusive item--an economic term where an item is denied to consumers unless they pay for it. Obviously that is not true in China as you pointed out in your experience there. Offering other services with the product as you pointed out is a good work-around, though I don't know why they limit this just to multiplayer services. What if they sold add-ons to those games? Like more items/enemies or tutorials on how to make independent games from that game, similar to the editor for "Dragon Age"?
This "it's not really stealing" Arguement is bullshit.

Your stealing. You are taking a product and/or service, for nothing. You are denying them a sale and partaking of their product, without paying them. Even if you go back and buy it later (because WAHHH SOMETIMES I BUY THE GAMES I PIRATE), your cocking up their profit margin which affects wether or not a great game gets a sequel, wether or not the studio stays open, who gets paid, and wether or not a genre or trend or attempt to innovate survives.

Mind you I do think Videogame Companies need to learn to make their products smarter, not BIGGER AND BURLIER to cut costs, but piracy is an equal if not greater problem then graphical markup.

I used to pirate, mostly games I couldn't find legitimatly. Now I have steam.

Steam has games. For cheap. Steam, Gamestop, Blockbuster. Learn them. Love them. BUY USED/RENT/ON SALE.

I bought Metro 2033 for half price. Thanks, Steam! Good 20 bucks too.
 

Hurr Durr Derp

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Reminds me of the tales about <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_189/5762-A-Nation-of-Pirates>piracy in <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_201/6059-A-Nation-of-Pirates>Brazil (Yes, that's the same article, published twice for some reason). It certainly makes sense that the videogame industry, primarily aimed at us spoiled Western bastards (and the Japanese, but only because that's where many games come from), would have a hard time adapting to circumstances in not-so-rich nations. And with little reason not to pirate games and virtually no enforcement of copyright laws, there's no incentive for pirates in such nations to stop pirating.

Still, I don't think the rules are in any way different for those people than they are for you and me. I have occasionally commented on the rather extreme sense of entitlement many gamers seem to have, which is in my eyes the #1 reason people pirate games. But if little Billy is a selfish jerk for pirating games he can't afford to buy, why would little Zhuang be any different for doing exactly the same thing? Sure, his circumstances are probably worse than Billy's, but games aren't some inalienable human right. No one's going to say "sure piracy is wrong, but this game costs more than your family earns in a month so it's somehow less bad to steal it". This also means that there's no reason why publishers should "Skimp on fancy packaging to keep distribution and production costs down, just get the disc in stores, and sell it for 60 RMB ($8.78)." Since there's no way to compete with the criminals under the current circumstances, there's simply no reason for publishers to go anywhere near the areas where piracy is such a huge business. Unless they can keep the pirates from pirating (which is pretty much impossible), the best choice a publisher can make is simply not to even try.

Perhaps it's unfortunate, but it's not a publisher's task to make sure as many people as possible get to enjoy videogames at a reasonable price. It's to make money. Everyone should decide for themselves what price is reasonable (and of course, for most people that decision will depend heavily on their income), but if the price is higher than what you find acceptable then piracy shouldn't be the obvious alternative, no matter how low your income is.
 

Shadeovblack

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Resistance is futile.



also

Setsuhen said:
Strangely enough, I live in a tiny island (Malta, but you've probably never heard of it) and it's not an underdeveloped country, yet piracy is the thing around here. ALL the people I know have at least pirated ONE thing in their life, be it music, video games, films, etc. But no one ever thinks about how piracy is bad or what not. It's actually a way of life for us.

Same here, and I live in Iowa.



Onyx Oblivion said:
Ahh...The R4.

My aunt bought one for her son. I'm tempted to steal it and then break it everytime I see it.
hmmmmmmm, I was wondering what to get little bro for his bday.
 

El_Ganso

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I've been a long time lurker in The Escapist but I had to respond to this

TsunamiWombat said:
This "it's not really stealing" Arguement is bullshit.
Actually, it's most certainly not bullshit. There is a reason why the courts in the US have a different set of rules for theft and copyright infringement.

Going around repeating the MPAA, RIAA and BSA sermon about "stealing" a movie or a song or software and liking file sharing with shoplifting and grand theft auto does nothing but further dilute the conversation and obfuscates it with a whole lot of FUD that in the end will only serve to play into Big Media's trap, which is to further legislate "tougher copyright" just to protect a very specific corner of the industry by stomping on consumers rights.

Big Faceless Corporation would love it for you to be on their side so that you can further propagate this idea that "dirty pirates" are killing kittens and destroying the lively hood of hard working artist, that way you won't see it coming when they get their friends in government to go along with shit like the DMCA, Selective Output Control and ACTA (if you don't know what these are, google them).

Disclosure: I'm pro copyright, but not in the ironfisted way the MPAA, RIAA and BSA want
 

Therumancer

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Well, China is a very special case, and your article sort of explains why I think World War III is inevitable.

With China it's not just about video games, but about pretty much everything. Anything they can steal, protect, and sell they will. There is no protection for not only intellectual properties, but also for patents filed in other countries.

A lot of the companies that have gone to China for cheap manufacturing, have had to reveal trade secrets to see that manufacturing performed. This has lead to China as a whole having factoties built up elsewhere producing knock offs of the same thing and selling it, and sometimes very publically when a company decides to leave all together.

In many cases where there aren't any real secrets involved, China just analyzes and knocks off whatever they can. What's more the Chinese are also infamous for counterfeit labeling and such. Doing things like not only producing Denim Jeans, but also putting labels like "Levi's" or "Calvin Klein" on them and then passing them off as the genuine, brand name article.

The reason why this is going to spark a war is because China is a "robber economy" that owes pretty much all of it's prominance and rising domination to theft. If it was to stop, all of the money that it's making would disappear. On the other hand other nations are losing tons of money through their citizens/businesses due to the Chinese violating the rules.

The world is however slow to react to such things, and while people are playing the diplomatic game and bellyaching China is building up a massive military so it can project it's power (people don't fear China right now because they believe China can't mobilize it's troops or protect them en-route, but that is changing... as is the fact that WMD insure MAD and prevent war, China has already made progress in laser-based technologies that can blind satellites needed for aiming long range ICBMs).

In the end war is the only outcome since economically it either comes to China stopping it's practices and sinking back into horrendous poverty, or the rest of the world letting their economies be drained sine they won't be able to protect any innovation, and everyone being replaced by China.

Then of course one has to consider that China's manufacturing is so cheap because of the inhumane conditions (think of the Apple factories) and people being paid so little for their work. Something that the people endure because the goverment pretty much tells them that they will wind up ruling the world. Enduring this now and producing those cheap goods means a big military which will pay off when they conquer other countries and so on.... if you've ever caught any Chinese speech/rallies that make it to the US through backdoor channels it's pretty scary stuff.

At any rate, all of this rambling aside is simply leading up to the point that this isn't some new and shocking thing, or limited to video games. China pretty much steals everything it can. It's just that people spend more time looking at what are currently bigger businesses like drugs. China knocking off Viagra for example causes Pfizers billions of dollars alone (to say nothing of their other drugs), money which of course is not taxed by the countries playing host to their facilities (they are multinational, but the US plays host to a lot of their labs and such) not to mention the issue of investors which can include goverments that are entitled to a percentage of the profits for drugs they helped finance the research for.

Really, some Chinese shop burning video games isn't all that shocking. It's just like some Chinese chem lab cooking up Viagra and then selling it internationally over the internet or whatever.

-

On the other hand I'll also say that while the pirates are by no means right, I also think such arguements, in a general sense, tend to overlook the practices of the video game companies to begin with.

Getting past China, I think it's like the old "Yin Yang" symbol here where piracy and industry corruption are irrevokably intertwiened. You cannot address one problem without effectively addressing the other. Both groups in this are crooks, albiet in differant ways. Pirates steal directly, but the industry robs it's customers by engaging in cartel behavior, avoiding direct competition, and fixing prices. While a billion dollar industry (and thus hardly worthy of pity) it only gets away with being just as criminal as the pirates in it's own way because unlike other industries that have been "called" on this (like gas companies) the goverment has yet to really notice.

All DRM aside, to beat piracy the industry needs to have the support of it's consumer base. That isn't going to happen while we're abused, dehumanized, and impersonally wrung for every cent. The pirates are wrong, but with the way the industry treats the consumers it's not like many people are going to care. This is why piracy spawns so many discussions with people coming up and rather bluntly saying "I support piracy". Simply put the games industry is not exactly wearing a white hat. It's like beating and insulting a slave, and then being shocked when the guy doesn't want to come to the defense of his master when a group of bandits break into his castle and start looting his stuff. Oh sure, the bandits might not be doing anything that will benefit the slave, and perhaps even hurting him indirectly (how does the master continue to pay for the slave's upkeep in-between beatings?) but he's not going to stick his neck out, and is probably going to be happy to see the guy who beats him taking a beating instead.

So basically, for all talk of economics, and countries that can't be influanced short of violence (I mean honestly, if your China why pay anything if you don't have to?, heck I'm not even entirely sure if they would LET game companies make decent money down there looking at the whole issue with Blizzard in the region, and the limitations on how much foreigners can take out of their economy), when you look entirely at markets where things can be controlled I think the first thing that needs to happen is that the industry needs to win the support of the consumers back by reforming it's policies even if it's less profitable overall. THEN the issue of piracy can be addressed more effectively with grassroots support.

The thing is that right now, all arguements aside, this is not about one game developer, or even a team of them, who all might be great guys. It's about an industry... a faceless collective automaton that has gone bad, and become akin to the mafia... and really, it's hard to feel sympathy for the mob if it's asking for help with a bunch of gang bangers cutting into it's profits.
 

mrclam

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RMcD94 said:
If it isn't to the detriment of anyone else then why not?

I am of course assuming they wouldn't buy the game in the first place. I know no one who would have bought it but pirates it instead.

See this argument is forever flashed around - "you wouldnt have bought it anyway - so it's okay".

Now imagine this. Lets just say i've employed you to do some work for me, and i'll pay you after you've finished. After a few months you've finished, and i've benefited from your hard work. But I refuse to pay you.

I've not STOLEN anything from anyone. And I wasnt intending to pay you anyhow, so there's no loss there (apparently).

But yet, i've gotten benefit/enjoyment from your hard work, and refused to pay you for your time. How would that make you feel?

That's what pirates do. They're stealing from the developers - not a physical product (as pirates LOVE to point out).. they're stealing TIME. They're taking the benefit of someones hard work, enjoying it.. but not paying them for it. They're basically sticking a middle finger up at the developers who spent years of their lives making that product.. "thanks for all that effort, i'll enjoy that and not give you anything for it".

Think - if EVERYONE decided not to buy games and to just download them for free.. How would developers pay for 2 years worth of development? Who'd want to spend time making a game which their not going to be financially rewarded for?

There's a damn good reason hardly anyone makes pc games any more....
 

RMcD94

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John Funk said:
RMcD94 said:
You aren't entitled to get something for free just because you want to.
If it isn't to the detriment of anyone else then why not?

I am of course assuming they wouldn't buy the game in the first place. I know no one who would have bought it but pirates it instead.
Because it is. You are taking something that someone spent time and money on, for free, when they have the right to receive money for their hard work.

That's a bullshit excuse that people use because they feel entitled to get things that cost money for free.
No it isn't. Also, I'd like to say I'm amoral. I'd steal happily if I thought I'd get away with it.

Scenario A) I don't pirate the game. I don't get to play the game. (Also to consider is that now I won't go talk about the game, and so advertising it) Nothing lost, nothing gained.

Scenario B) I pirate the game. I do get to play the game. (If the game is good I'd go talk to my friends about it, free advertising.) Has the developer lost anything? No. In fact, possibly they gain from advertising if it's a good game.

This is only applicable if pirating wasn't an option I still wouldn't buy the game.

That said, I'd still pirate a game whether I would have bought the game or not.

@above argument, my time cannot be replicated for no extra cost. It costs no more or less for the developer, if someone makes a copy of his game. If it did cost more then the whole argument would be invalid.

Edit: Oh, and by saying everyone would pirate games, you are saying that no one was willing to buy them anyway (which is what you were talking about), so it'd actually matter jackshit if they bought or pirated them.

Also, @dood who made long Chinese rant, that's true Capitalism. Intellectual laws undermine the nature of capitalism. Whoever can make stuff the cheapest, does the best. The only way to compete is as you say, force them to obey your laws, or work for less money.
 

Ghostkai

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John Funk said:
Because it is. You are taking something that someone spent time and money on, for free, when they have the right to receive money for their hard work.

That's a bullshit excuse that people use because they feel entitled to get things that cost money for free.
You know John, sometimes I think I love you.
But sadly, you'll never get through to the majority of pirates, their delusions of entitlement won't go away any time soon. A shame, they're so young too (mostly).

Also, people should read this:

mrclam said:
See this argument is forever flashed around - "you wouldnt have bought it anyway - so it's okay".

Now imagine this. Lets just say i've employed you to do some work for me, and i'll pay you after you've finished. After a few months you've finished, and i've benefited from your hard work. But I refuse to pay you.

I've not STOLEN anything from anyone. And I wasnt intending to pay you anyhow, so there's no loss there (apparently).

But yet, i've gotten benefit/enjoyment from your hard work, and refused to pay you for your time. How would that make you feel?

That's what pirates do. They're stealing from the developers - not a physical product (as pirates LOVE to point out).. they're stealing TIME. They're taking the benefit of someones hard work, enjoying it.. but not paying them for it. They're basically sticking a middle finger up at the developers who spent years of their lives making that product.. "thanks for all that effort, i'll enjoy that and not give you anything for it".

Think - if EVERYONE decided not to buy games and to just download them for free.. How would developers pay for 2 years worth of development? Who'd want to spend time making a game which their not going to be financially rewarded for?

There's a damn good reason hardly anyone makes pc games any more....
mrclam sums up the problems behind piracy very well.
 

Voltano

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TsunamiWombat said:
Voltano said:
This "it's not really stealing" Arguement is bullshit.

Your stealing. You are taking a product and/or service, for nothing. You are denying them a sale and partaking of their product, without paying them. Even if you go back and buy it later (because WAHHH SOMETIMES I BUY THE GAMES I PIRATE), your cocking up their profit margin which affects wether or not a great game gets a sequel, wether or not the studio stays open, who gets paid, and wether or not a genre or trend or attempt to innovate survives.
Wow, harsh? Okay so whether copying software is considered "stealing" or not is something we may not agree on--but labeling someone as a crook? Especially in China? John Funk said that they are facing a catch-22 there where they are forced to copy the game to get it when its not officially sold in that country. As the article states developers/publishers have a good reason to not sell their games in that country, but because they *choose* to not sell what they made in that country, anyone that copies their work is considered a thief? That's like a kid in one house making nice LEGO robots but not sharing them with the other kids in the neighborhood because he wants them to pay him to play with it. Then another kids may have copied the first kids work but offers it freely. So the second kid should be a crook?

Mind you I do think Videogame Companies need to learn to make their products smarter, not BIGGER AND BURLIER to cut costs, but piracy is an equal if not greater problem then graphical markup.

Steam has games. For cheap. Steam, Gamestop, Blockbuster. Learn them. Love them. BUY USED/RENT/ON SALE.
As John Funk points out developers/publishers cannot sell their games cheaper then pirates can, and I do agree that the services you listed are great for gamers that are living on the poor (like me), it doesn't work for everyone, especially in China. Not even the used--and possibly even digital distribution--market could work in those non-developed countries if they could pirate the games online. A North American could access Steam, Gamestop or Blockbuster but could a person in China? Judging by John Funk's article, I doubt it.