Villains and depth in videogames

[Littaly]

Nice to see somebody else agreeing with me on that point. One of the biggest flaws with the story in Mass Effect 2 was the lack of a clear villain. If you were going up against somebody instead of a chain of factions controlled by each other, that might actually have given the game some direction.

Why does the villain always need to be clear and defined? There is an anime called "Death Note" in which a character kills people who are criminals in hopes to make a better world. His motives are pure but his actions aren't. Likewise, the detective trying to stop his has good motives to stop a serial killer, but takes bold and unconventional actions to get close to the killer. Neither one is pure good or pure evil in what the do. It's unclear, but the morality behind the series is left for the reader to figure on their own. I see nothing wrong with having an unclear villain.

I agree, there is nothing wrong with a blurry or unclear villain. Hell, no villain at all can work too. I have nothing against any of the approaches by principle, but I think a clearly defined villain would have given the story of Mass Effect 2 some much needed direction.

 

[AnonymousTipster]

The problem with the villains in ME 2 was that they had no presence. There were clear villains aplenty, with both the Collectors and the Reapers, but the Reapers were never even directly seen and the Collectors, well, they just had no presence, personality, or anything remotely intriguing about them. You were essentially just fighting an army of clones with a trash-talking leader. At least the Geth in ME1 had Saren and Sovereign leading them, who both each had a very strong presence and influence in the story.

 

[ZeroMachine]

This is going to sound weird considering what he usually is, but Ganondorf from Wind Waker (and ONLY the one from Wind Waker).

In every other Zelda game he just wants power, but in Wind Waker he explains that he originally wanted to rule Hyrule so his people, the Gerudo, wouldn't keep suffering in the desert. They had dealt with such harsh living conditions for too long, so he wanted to feel the wind of the grassy plains of Hyrule and have his people live there. I actually pitied him. That fight may be easy to win, but it's tough to fight.

 

[Zebraloo]

Albert Wesker from resident evil he was always my favourite villain and the fact that he was planning on saving the world by killing off most of it just shows how he is a villain on some twisted mission

 

[Harrowdown]

The baron from Jak 2 wasn't single-mindedly evil. He was a ruthless despot to be sure, but he was trying to keep his city in order whilst holding off the metalheads. Dutch VanDer Linde from RDR had some depth, in that he did what he did in pursuit of a genuine vision, or at least an ideology. The real villains in that game were of course the government forces, and even they were doing what they thought necessary. To quote Edgar Ross, "Me and Fordham here, we're the bad guys, we enforce the rules, and while the rules may not be perfect, they're really not that bad, and while civilization may be boring, the alternative is hell."

 

[AnonymousTipster]

GLaDOS, as far as I know, doesn't fit either of those categories. It's just a super-computer that lost its artificial mind.

(that's the best example I currently have, unfortunately)

GLaDOS is like a black-comedy version of SHODAN. Kind of.

 

[Outcast107]

I will say Gravemind from halo. He wasn't my favorite villain, but have to say he pretty good one. Being a master behind the flood. Truly believing he is the next evolutionary step in the galaxy. As well as having a kick ass voice that can seem calm one minute and raging the next and bam back to being calm and cool like nothing happen.

He only gets piss when something happens that he hadn't thought of, which isn't much as he normally has everything plan out ahead.

 

[Irridium]

Saren from Mass Effect is a pretty good one. Hell I wouldn't even call him a villain, he's an antagonist. An antagonist with a plan, a reason for doing what he's doing, and eventually realizes what he became.

Great antagonist.

Which is one reasons I was disappointed with ME2. We went from such a great antagonist like Saren to some race of bug-looking people.

I mean yeah, the Geth aren't exactly that great either, but they had Saren leading them. The Collectors just have some Reaper that you end up schooling dozens of times, completely removing any sense of danger and power he would have had.

So the illusive man was not a good villain?

No. He was a jackass, an idiot, can't keep a handle on his Cerberus cells, and screws you over for no damn reason.

Spoiler: The prime example

When he sends you into the collector ship. Why didn't he tell you it was a trap? Because he needs you to think its not a trap? The moment you arrive its stupidly obvious that its a trap. All he needed to say was "Shepard, we've spotted a collector ship thats just floating through space. Its most definitely a trap, so if you go to investigate it, be careful."

Instead he spins some web of lies. And why? Because he thinks you'll screw things up by knowing its a trap? He essentially willingly send you straight into a trap. You, the last hope of the galaxy, the person he spent billions on to bring you back, the most important person in the galaxy, and he sends you into a trap and doesn't even give you any good info. It wouldn't have mattered if you knew it was a trap or not, you'd have gone through the exact same series of events anyway(no way you'd just let a Collector ship float around and not do anything about it). TIM's just acts so unnecessarily stupid then he needs to act.

Then again that whole situation required everyone to be completely idiotic. TIM for sending you into a trap without deeming it important to tell you its a trap. You for actually going along with it. Joker for having to park right next to the ship, then later flying away right in front of it. 360 degrees of movement, and he chooses the path that their ships pointing thats in prime position to fire and chase you. And the Collectors for not even being able to capture you.

But anyway, TIM's an ass, an idiot, and I hope he dies a horrid death. By the hands of me.

Ugh, I just hate that son of a *****. It also didn't help how your forced to work with him.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

The fist that comes to mind is Saren or Sovereign. Andrew Ryan was a great one, hell, even Fontaine, at least before...Well, you know.

Ayn Rand Andrew Ryan

Holy shit. I honestly noticed that. I mean, I knew it was influenced by Ayn Rand, but I didn't notice the name.

Anywhoo....How 'bout good 'ol Dr. Breen?

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

I'm going to go with something a little outside the box and nominate the G-Man from the Half Life series. Here me out, he may not be the villain of the story but he acts as antagonistic force by removing volition from the protagonist. Everything Gordon does is under constant scrutiny, in the eyes humanity he is a paradigm of hope and freedom whereas in the eyes of the G-Man he is a disposable insect scurrying along in the path laid out for him. For all the talk of villains complexity and depth in their characteristics, motivations and origins, it is the mystery of the G-Man, that makes him such an effective antagonistic force. There are only vauge hints towards his identity, affiliations and motives because you can only know as much as he wants you to know giving him leveridge. In this regard I think Sovereign from Mass Effect deserves a mention as well he only imparts the extent of knowledge he wants the player to know and with his fellow species have planned out and predicted the course evolution and technological discovery in the galaxy. 'Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire.'

 

[CATB320]

Andrew Ryan, Edgar Ross, Makarov maybe?, Saren.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Scholar Visari from Killzone. The guy is a brilliant speaker, and even when confronted with certain death, he was defiant to the end.

He made a nation from scraps, gave his people pride, and even counseled Sev and Rico on his ways before being killed. He was the soul of the Helghast Nation, their spirit.

From the looks of the third game, the infighting between Orlock and Stahl seems to be undoing everything Visari sought to build.

To give you an idea of the guy, just listen to his speech.

 

[WolfEdge]

Thiiiiiink about it.

Gary Oak is the perfect antagonist. He will ALWAYS have the advantage over you. Oh, you want the Charmander, do you? Well GUESS WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!

He is the ultimate in player futility and inadequacy. He will always be there to challenge your bruised ass after you've had the shit well and fully kicked out of you in any area you happen to visit. He will never acknowledge your strength or your growth as a trainer or an individual, because he will always be better than you. Always.

Smell ya later!

/sarcasm

 

[JourneyThroughHell]

snip

Eh...

Well, at least he has some pretty good voice acting going for himself.

And, really, I don't see how TIM is the villain in the game. I'd say it's the Collector General or Harbringer. Both are basically one-note characters, but are done pretty well.

OT:

Scholar Visari from Killzone.

Yeah, pretty much. Even if his shtick kind of reminds me of the Star Wars emperor.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

snip

Eh...

Well, at least he has some pretty good voice acting going for himself.

And, really, I don't see how TIM is the villain in the game. I'd say it's the Collector General or Harbringer. Both are basically one-note characters, but are done pretty well.

OT:

Scholar Visari from Killzone.

Yeah, pretty much. Even if his shtick kind of reminds me of the Star Wars emperor.

I felt he was a more likable or Heroic take on Hitler. Cruel yes, idealistic yes, but he wasn't quite the tyrannical monster.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

Most of the charecters in the Halo series, if you take the time to read all of the books.

Majora from LOZ is the same way, but you have to really look out for all the symbolism in the game to see it.

 

[ABLb0y]

Maria from Silent Hill 2. I'm not going to post any spoilers, if you want to know why she's a villain, play Silent Hill 2. Damn fine game.

 

[Ranchcroutons]

I was thinking about this the other day, i would love it if there was a game where, for the first half you played as the stereotypical 'good guys' and the enemies were presented as the stereotypical 'bad guys', but for the second half you saw the game from the enemies perspective, and had to play as them, perhaps at the end you would have to choose a side to win?
Anyway, i agree, video game villains very rarely have any motive other than 'because they're the baddies', and i'd love to see more games which challenge the typical perception of 'good' and 'evil'.

They made that game, it was called Haze and was reviewed very poorly. I wish someone would take the concept and actually make it work though.

 

[BVBFanatic]

Andrew Ryan.

 

[ReservoirAngel]

I nominate Sephiroth!

There aren't enough faces or palms in the world to adequately respond to the notion of Sephiroth being 'deep and complex'.