VP Joe Biden Claims "No Restriction" Against Taxing Violent Games
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Silent Protagonist said:
Bravo, good sir or madam, bravo. Just because the Founding Fathers didn't envision the technological advances of our modern times, it doesn't mean that the Constitution, or more specifically any part of it one group of people doesn't like, is any less valid.
damn, i usually like biden. he always seemed like a smart and reasonable guy who stood up for what he believed but seriously lacked any ability to censor himself. but this is just stupid. didnt we just spend millions of dollars studying the effects of violent video games?
well the good news is that im sure republicans will seriously oppose this since they hate taxes so much. oh wait, video games have been their primary scapegoat to protect the nra...damn
well the good news is that im sure republicans will seriously oppose this since they hate taxes so much. oh wait, video games have been their primary scapegoat to protect the nra...damn
Of course it does. They were men, not Gods and we shouldn't slave ourselves to their opinions. It doesn't make them wrong on any given subject, nor does it make them right on any subject and we should have a better reason for why we do anything than "well it's written in the Constitution." It's really scary that adults use that logic for justifying things.
As far as a tax on games I'm not really against it as long as it's written so that it automatically ends after a few years. We have no idea how high this tax would be so claiming it would destroy the struggling industry is just fear mongering. We've all seen the profits that Triple A games make and it's nothing to sneeze at. So finding out exactly what we're talking about should really be part of the conversation.
As far as games making people violent,can we all act like adults and admit that they do have some effect. We all know it, always have and constantly defending it starting to get a little silly. Just like we know movies and books have effects and to a large degree that is changed by how "effective" the media in question is. There is a reason why we have ratings for movies and it's because we know good and damn well that whether it's South Park "teaching" children to swear or Ninja Turtles teaching kids to whack each other with sticks or porn teaching people about sodomy that it's true. There is no reason to think games are any different. All Biden is talking about is a study to find out what effect it does have. If you're against a study that's usually because you have something to hide.
If you're worried about censorship that's a legit concern. Right now I'd settle for the ESRB ratings getting tweaked so they make sense. We all know good and damn well that there is no reason, at all, for Smash Brother's to be rated T for Teen. Not in a world where Looney Toons, Ben 10 and Batman are marketed to children with absolutely no second thoughts from anybody. A lot of people are blaming parents, and yes there is blame for parents but really the rating system is so crazy that it's hard for a parent to make an informed decision. A parent with no prior knowledge should be able to pick up a game, read the label, see the rating and make a halfway decent decision about the game. Obviously it won't be perfect but we manage to do pretty well with movies and tv.
As far as guns go there is no way that the Founding Fathers had any clue how powerful our arms would become in two hundred years. They simply couldn't. The question is what weapons should we allow and why. The fact that the 2nd Amendment isn't perfect is so accepted that nobody REALLY debates it. There are weapons in the world that we don't let entire COUNTRIES have. If we have the right to tell Iran it can't have nukes we can sure as fuck police our citizens.
I see a few people are mentioning that there are things that would be worth dying for. I suppose you're right there are but I'm a whole lot more worried about some whack job going crazy and shooting up the mall than I am about the government taking over and making life hell. That's just the world I live in, the one where we have annual shooting massacres while the rest of the world almost never does. Which brings me to another point. Of course you can keep guns away from criminals. You have to keep them from everybody but of course you can, the question is SHOULD you.
People also bring up the Assault Weapons ban and that some of things are a bit silly. Of course there is a reason why each of those "cosmetic" changes are made. People bring up the silly point that it doesn't change the lethality of the weapon. Stop lying. Of course it does which is why people want them. Having sights (and properly aligned ones at that) doesn't change anything about the size of the bullet either but I challenge you to kill someone without them. Now tell me about how scopes and laser sites don't make your weapon more effective. While we're at it lets pretend that the pistol grip doesn't make the weapon easier to use.
If you want to keep your guns, by all means do so. I'm more or less comfortable with the level of restrictions that we have now. However the next time there is a massacre remember that this is the price we pay, that blood is on your hands and ignoring it doesn't change the fact. Your freedom is more important than the lives of whoever dies next.
As far as a tax on games I'm not really against it as long as it's written so that it automatically ends after a few years. We have no idea how high this tax would be so claiming it would destroy the struggling industry is just fear mongering. We've all seen the profits that Triple A games make and it's nothing to sneeze at. So finding out exactly what we're talking about should really be part of the conversation.
As far as games making people violent,can we all act like adults and admit that they do have some effect. We all know it, always have and constantly defending it starting to get a little silly. Just like we know movies and books have effects and to a large degree that is changed by how "effective" the media in question is. There is a reason why we have ratings for movies and it's because we know good and damn well that whether it's South Park "teaching" children to swear or Ninja Turtles teaching kids to whack each other with sticks or porn teaching people about sodomy that it's true. There is no reason to think games are any different. All Biden is talking about is a study to find out what effect it does have. If you're against a study that's usually because you have something to hide.
If you're worried about censorship that's a legit concern. Right now I'd settle for the ESRB ratings getting tweaked so they make sense. We all know good and damn well that there is no reason, at all, for Smash Brother's to be rated T for Teen. Not in a world where Looney Toons, Ben 10 and Batman are marketed to children with absolutely no second thoughts from anybody. A lot of people are blaming parents, and yes there is blame for parents but really the rating system is so crazy that it's hard for a parent to make an informed decision. A parent with no prior knowledge should be able to pick up a game, read the label, see the rating and make a halfway decent decision about the game. Obviously it won't be perfect but we manage to do pretty well with movies and tv.
As far as guns go there is no way that the Founding Fathers had any clue how powerful our arms would become in two hundred years. They simply couldn't. The question is what weapons should we allow and why. The fact that the 2nd Amendment isn't perfect is so accepted that nobody REALLY debates it. There are weapons in the world that we don't let entire COUNTRIES have. If we have the right to tell Iran it can't have nukes we can sure as fuck police our citizens.
I see a few people are mentioning that there are things that would be worth dying for. I suppose you're right there are but I'm a whole lot more worried about some whack job going crazy and shooting up the mall than I am about the government taking over and making life hell. That's just the world I live in, the one where we have annual shooting massacres while the rest of the world almost never does. Which brings me to another point. Of course you can keep guns away from criminals. You have to keep them from everybody but of course you can, the question is SHOULD you.
People also bring up the Assault Weapons ban and that some of things are a bit silly. Of course there is a reason why each of those "cosmetic" changes are made. People bring up the silly point that it doesn't change the lethality of the weapon. Stop lying. Of course it does which is why people want them. Having sights (and properly aligned ones at that) doesn't change anything about the size of the bullet either but I challenge you to kill someone without them. Now tell me about how scopes and laser sites don't make your weapon more effective. While we're at it lets pretend that the pistol grip doesn't make the weapon easier to use.
If you want to keep your guns, by all means do so. I'm more or less comfortable with the level of restrictions that we have now. However the next time there is a massacre remember that this is the price we pay, that blood is on your hands and ignoring it doesn't change the fact. Your freedom is more important than the lives of whoever dies next.
The Vice President is correct. Under the power of the Commerce Clause, congress can regulate Commerce between states or with foreign powers. The sales of videogames are a form of commerce. Therefore Congress has the legal authority to tax them. Now the content of games fall under the First Amendment so game producers can put whatever they want in them and if distributed for free then the government would have no legal action but as a sellable product, it is taxable. It already has a sales tax when purchased in person, it is not free from taxation. Nor is it prohibiting people from buying videogames, just making them cost more.
He also said in the same breath that there is no reason why they would barring actual scientific studies that showed a direct correlation. He was with a bunch of religious conservatives, his phrasing may have been bad but it was truthful, regardless of whether people want to hear it or not. Anything that is sold is a form of commerce and if done across state borders it can Constitutionally be taxed.
He also said in the same breath that there is no reason why they would barring actual scientific studies that showed a direct correlation. He was with a bunch of religious conservatives, his phrasing may have been bad but it was truthful, regardless of whether people want to hear it or not. Anything that is sold is a form of commerce and if done across state borders it can Constitutionally be taxed.
Are you joking? They can discriminate based on content on practically anything. They decide what a religion is and what a cult is based on the content. We censor media based on not only it's content but also on how powerful the media corporation is. We don't let people in front of the president if the content of their message is that they disagree with said president.Easton Dark said:
The government does this all the time. This isn't new.
Videogames aren't protected speech under the first amendment of the constitution. "Should be" and "isn't" aren't the same things.Stryc9 said:
Guns are taxed...DVS BSTrD said:
In fact not only will you get pegged on sales tax for buying one. But manufacturers of guns have to pay a special tax under the NFA and the amended CGA for simply making them.
Pretty much this. I'm still scratching my head at this administration. I mean, really? It didn't take long for them to realize Biden was a complete moron, so why do they keep letting him say such retarded shit on a consistent basis? If Dick Cheney's the Penguin than Biden is Bebop from TMNT.grigjd3 said:
Yeah, except universal background checks were supported by 90% of voters, and by strong majorities (70-80%) of registered Republicans and NRA members. Keep in mind that the voted on legislation wasn't even that strong, it didn't actually have universal background checks, the bill had many loop holes to get around them. The legislation was not blocked to appease the will of constituents, it was blocked because of the lobbying power of the NRA; and the NRA represents gun manufactures, not gun owners. It was the combination of legal bribery from the NRA, and the implicit threat that they would run adds against you at reelection if you voted against their will. This is what our democracy has become, it is a fucking sham. Our politician's votes are sold to the highest bidder, they are beholden to moneyed interest, not the people they're sworn to serve.TiberiusEsuriens said:
There is a reason we no longer call them 'public servants'.
so he went about taxing games in gun control meeting? how is he smart enough to tie his shoes?
Maybe we should tax stupidity, im sure after this being applied no other taxes would be needed.
Maybe we should tax stupidity, im sure after this being applied no other taxes would be needed.
or maybe we shouldnt treat kids as brainless idiots who cant udnerstand anything and then cry when they do something wrong because they were never told it was wrong due to sheltering?FargoDog said:
well, technically he did say "Games and other media".Stryc9 said:
noone cares. such things happen every 2 weeks in america, we are already used to that being the norm.VMK said:
noone elected. hes like that slug you catch as a sad consequence of going to a beach. noone wants it, but accepts it as fair risk when getting something good.mxfox408 said:
there was heated discussion on escapist about gun control when the last big news massacre happened. apperently a vast majority thinks its their magical right to own guns and they are going to tip over the government with it in the future. a lot of people are agasint gun control for a lot of stupid reasons.VMK said:
No. They voted for obama, and this leech just got stuck along. That is [part of the bigger problem, how voting for president also elects VP.amaranth_dru said:
Sorry for not answering to your replies sooner. I had to sleep and then go to the University.
What can guns do? Probably take your life away? Yeah I think it is so.
I do like your sense of humour though.
And please, do not be so aggresive. I did not mean to offend you or anyone else (maybe exept for your politicians).
And, once again, I'd like to apologise if you think that I sounded aggresive. I was not. I was, however a bit not serious and forgot to ad obligatory "jokingly" comment in the end.
I realise, that it is a really sensitive topic for you, citizens of USA, but, as I said to UNHchabo, I am afraid. I really don't want any country to have such rate of murder by firearms as America had in recent time.
Hmm... What can words possibly do? Take away your dignity,etc., etc.Schadrach said:
What can guns do? Probably take your life away? Yeah I think it is so.
I do like your sense of humour though.
Oh yeah, sorry, you are correct, immoral, my mistake.tehpiemaker said:
No, I am just scared. I see news where people kill those of their own kind without any reason. I am afraid. Take Lybia for example: people had revolution. After it, many (if not most) revolutionaries did not give away their firearms. And, as far as I am aware this led to serious increase in crime rate (forgive me if I am incorrect). I am afraid for Lybians and I am afraid that if (God forbid) my country will be in the same situation, our people will not give away weapons too. Call me a wuss if you wish.UNHchabo said:
True, I did NOT know that. I apologies, American history is not my specialty.Spartanmk1 said:
Well, Europeans don't have such an easy access to firearms, and Norwegian incident was a tragedy. Meanwhile in USA mass murder slowly becomes (it is repulsive to write such things, but I can not to) a tradition.cursedseishi said:
And please, do not be so aggresive. I did not mean to offend you or anyone else (maybe exept for your politicians).
Hmmm, I do think that Shamus Young knows the reason for violence rate drop... Videogames!JoesshittyOs said:
And, once again, I'd like to apologise if you think that I sounded aggresive. I was not. I was, however a bit not serious and forgot to ad obligatory "jokingly" comment in the end.
I realise, that it is a really sensitive topic for you, citizens of USA, but, as I said to UNHchabo, I am afraid. I really don't want any country to have such rate of murder by firearms as America had in recent time.
Now you're exaggeratingVMK said:
To kill 50 people in 15 seconds with a semi-automatic rifle(the fully automatic ones are already prohibited for the public) you'd literally need to take aim and pull the trigger in 3/10 of a second. That seems a bit unrealistic... and don't forget that you'd have to releoad at some point too.
TIL the Escapist can't reading comprehension. USING ONLY THE PURPORTED QUOTES AS REFERENCE, Biden was not supporting the idea of taxing violent media. He was only making a statement of fact. Biden essentially said, "The government CAN tax things." Wow! If anything, he's resisting a knee jerk reaction by insisting that scientific research should support the notion that violent media has an effect on developing brains before taking action to limit exposure to violent media. What other response do you guys want from him?
A few things here to be noted - first, Vice President Biden is NOT an enemy of the medium. If you'll recall, during the last big "video game violence" stink where Obama was forced to give some vague statements about wanting "studies" on the mater, Biden went to speak to the big publishers and developers to basically assure them that the President wasn't serious about going on an antivideogame crusade. Also you'll not that Biden said here that there's no reason a tax "couldn't" be levied on games - not that one "should" be levied on games, which in of itself still would be quite short of calling for bans and distributor fines that are common among the "think of the children" crowd. This is a very typical political ambiguous fence straddling statement avoiding being put on the spot by the conservative anti-game forces he was addressing. There's no need to seriously oppose Biden's statement because his statement doesn't seriously oppose anything in the first place.
Except that's really not the case. We've had some high-profile shootings, but overall both our "gun crime" rate and our overall violent crime rate have been going down since the early 90s, even as the gun control laws in most states have been loosened. Even then, the vast majority of our violent crime is committed by members of organized gangs, in our inner cities. In short, civilian gun owners are not the problem in the US, and there's good evidence that increased gun ownership decreases violent crime.VMK said:
Lol that's assuming we actually have something good, ofcourse thus guy is a dunce but the other one I could hardly call good especially after certain bills he signed regarding our bill of rights.... For example the NDAA and authorizing drone strikes against Us citizens, so to me getting something good means something that isn't these two bozos especially Biden the clown.....Biden is just missing the makeupStrazdas said:
I think Joe Biden is a pretty stand-up guy. Sure maybe he should not talk sometimes, but that's the very thing that makes him so relatable and trustworthy. I still remember the Same-sex marriage blunder where many political analysis thought he had jeopardized the administration's standing by coming out in support of same sex marriage. Forget standings, the guy came out and defended what he thought was right.
Now imagine a guy with that stance talking to an Evangelical about something like video games. It seemed like he was just trying to, not very well I guess, move the conversation to call for the need for scientific research, which I thought this community would appreciate.
What? Do you think the research would reveal that video games create mass murderers? Maybe thanks to Biden we'd have definitive proof that violent video games are not to blame.
All this belly-aching is pretty painful to read, kind of reminds me of high school.
Now imagine a guy with that stance talking to an Evangelical about something like video games. It seemed like he was just trying to, not very well I guess, move the conversation to call for the need for scientific research, which I thought this community would appreciate.
What? Do you think the research would reveal that video games create mass murderers? Maybe thanks to Biden we'd have definitive proof that violent video games are not to blame.
All this belly-aching is pretty painful to read, kind of reminds me of high school.
