WAAAAAH! Cry some more!

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milskidasith

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Jul 4, 2008
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I?m trying something a bit new here, so I?m going to review the Heavy Update for Team Fortress 2.

First off, let?s take a look at the achievements. Almost every single one of them is a communist joke of some kind, from Iron Kurtain to Stalin the Kart. Those that aren?t are generally Russian jokes of some kind, like Rasputin, which you get by being bludgeoned, shot, hit by explosives, and lit on fire in one life. The achievements are better than the previous ones in that they are somewhat sensible for a Heavy to actually get in the course of normal play. Whereas ubering Scouts for Medics was, at best, a bad choice, most of these make sense. Eating Sandviches, killing Scouts, killing cloaked Spies, killing people for hurting your Medic, all that stuff just fits the theme of the Heavy. Some of the achievements are kind of bad (killing people underwater is always dumb, as are achievements based on luck and using your melee weapon) but there are more than enough achievements that you can get through normal play to unlock all the weapons, so overall the achievements are the best yet by far.

Now let?s talk weapons. The Heavy?s new primary weapon is Natascha, another Russian named minigun. It replaces his generic minigun, which has no special effects. It slows enemies down by 50% on hit for a short time and deals 75% of the normal minigun's damage, which is actually very noticable. It also sounds completely badass, but generally being a badass doesn?t help you in combat. For the life of me, I can?t get why Valve thought this was a good weapon unlock. Granted, it isn?t worse than the normal minigun, but it?s just not fitting with their theme of making the Heavy less reliant on Medics. After all, he?s now dealing out less damage and being shot at longer, and this only helps him against Pyros, which weren?t that big of a deal for any Heavy that could aim. I mean, in arena mode, it?s great against pesky Scouts, but in any game mode where dying and health packs are fairly common, the loss of combat ability in exchange for being able to wound Scouts and Pyros slightly more is just not going to separate the Heavy from his Medic any more than a pop up ad is going to prevent us from watching Zero Punctuation. I mean, sure, some people might get pissed off and leave because of that, but anybody smart realizes that I?m overextending this metaphor Zero Punctuation (and Medics) are still great.

Now for the knockout punch of the group, the KGB. Yes, another communist pun. It actually stands for the Killer Gloves of Boxing, which are the heavies new comical melee weapon, replacing his bare fists. They punch slower (about 80% speed), but they give you 100% crits with any of your weapons for 5 seconds if you kill somebody with them. The problem with that is that, compared to other classes, the Heavy's melee weapons are the most useless of them all.. I mean, sure, if you got behind the enemy you could go on a killing spree after killing the Medic at the back of their group, especially on payload, but I then point you to the Spy class, because anybody who can sneak behind the enemy as a Heavy is either playing idiots or a natural born Spy. It doesn?t fit Valve?s plan to detach the Heavy from the Medic either, but the melee weapon isn?t ever useful anyway. Unlike other melee weapons, it isn?t much of an upgrade, since it fires slower in exchange for an upgrade that, more than likely, will not get you any real bonus. I guess it?s useful in comical Heavy sudden death melee brawls, but it?s a melee weapon, so it?s not ever going to be that useful in actual play anyway.

And for our delicious weapon finale, I present to you the Sandvich (now with new meat!) The Sandvich is a weapon that allows the heavy to eat his sandvich over the course of four seconds, healing him for 120 (rougly one third) of his health. It?s a replacement for the Heavy?s shotgun. The shotgun deals good damage at close range (no more than his minigun, though) and is suprisingly decent as a medium range alternative to the minigun, because he is more manueverable with the shotgun and it does comparable damage. At long range, the shotgun is close to useless, but I bet that was pretty obvious. The sandvich is pretty great as an alternative. It gives away his slight combat functionality with the shotgun (which is quite useful at times) in exchange for the ability to go around without a Medic and be fairly effective. It?s especially useful in arena mode, where you can practically become a hit and run class by using this to heal whereas other classes cannot. It even comically heals you in bursts of 30, which was pretty neat, in my opinion (instead of just healing 120 at the end of it all), and heals anybody who runs over it. The Sandvich is funny as a weapon, unique, and overall the only one of the new Heavy weapons I genuinely liked through and through.

Speaking of not liking much, let?s talk about CP_Steel. It?s not that I don?t like the map, it?s just that it isn?t much besides making a community map official, and, while I commend Valve for encouraging the TF2 modding community, it doesn?t really feel like part of the update so much as saying ?Play this map, it?s better than anything we could come up with!?

Badwater Basin is the new Payload map, and I have to say I can never decide if I like it or not. Any location in the map can become a total roadblock, which is great for defenders, except that anywhere that isn?t a roadblock is the offensive team steamrolling them. I mean, it?s great how the defenders have to set up well and the offense has to attack well to get either way, but at least in Payload when two teams of nearly equal force struck each other, it was a slow moving clash for the ages with the cart constantly teetering near the edge of that next point. Now it?s either like the stall to get the cart moving in the first place at any random point on the map or it?s just a steamrolling until the next somewhat random choke point. I still don?t know if it?s good or bad, because the team that is slightly better is getting a huge advantage, and I guess my opinion is mostly dependent on my mood and what team I?m on.

Now for more likable affairs, let?s talk about Meet the Sandvich. It was short, it was funny, and that?s about it. It could have been made in Gary?s mod with the official voice actors, except I don?t think the Sandvich existed in Gary?s mod back then. It was funny and all, but seeing a Sandvich just sitting in the fridge the whole time wasn?t exactly worthy of a cinematography award. I liked it, but I think more effort could have been made.

Finally, one of the most likable things about the update for me was Arena mode. A lot of people hated it from the start, but I gave it a try and I like it. Granted, the arbitrary and unchangeable ?one third of players, give or take, must sit out every round? rule sucks, especially when you get 7 backstabs in an 8 on 8 match and the only guy on your team not sitting out was the guy who jumped off the cliff (that really happened to me, by the way.) Everything else about it, though, is pure gold. It?s fun, it?s frantic, and it gives the Sandvich, Medic?s, and Scouts even more use (besides the Medic, all of those were only situational in other modes). The new maps are also great (especially Lumberyard, which shows Valve actually can make maps that aren?t desert?s) and the updates of the old maps aren?t bad either.

Overall, the Heavy update was good fun. It?s free and you have to download it to keep playing anyway, so go get it and then notice that the aforementioned necessity of the update makes this review as worthless in terms of recommending something as a review about being a carbon based life form.
 
Aug 1, 2008
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I don't understand why Valve keeps churning out updates like this without fixing some very fundamental problems that have been in the game since day one.

By the way, where is the thread's title derived from? I'm guessing Steampowered.
 

The Wooster

King Snap
Jul 15, 2008
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frontier psychiatrist post=326.69603.665578 said:
I don't understand why Valve keeps churning out updates like this without fixing some very fundamental problems that have been in the game since day one.

By the way, where is the thread's title derived from? I'm guessing Steampowered.
It's the heavy's taunt. What are these problems you're talking about?
 
Aug 1, 2008
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Decoy Doctorpus post=326.69603.665582 said:
It's the heavy's taunt.
I've never noticed. But boy, Valve sure are a bunch of fucking retards. "Cry some more" is the defining feature of Steampowered, the very representation of what makes that place a putrid cesspool of stupidity. Valve actually thinks it's funny that their official forum for their own games and for the largest digital distribution platform of PC games is one of the worst websites on the Internet. The mind reels.

What are these problems you're talking about?
Well for starters, the spy is so badly designed that that it should be rebuilt from the ground up. At the very least it needs a couple of fixes. Critical hits still haven't been removed, and the pyro is in desperate need of either nerfing or complete removal (preferably the latter). TF2 has a lot of design flaws that should have been rectified ages ago. But no, Valve is too busy working on achievements.
 

The Wooster

King Snap
Jul 15, 2008
15,305
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frontier psychiatrist post=326.69603.665604 said:
Decoy Doctorpus post=326.69603.665582 said:
It's the heavy's taunt.
I've never noticed. But boy, Valve sure are a bunch of fucking retards. "Cry some more" is the defining feature of Steampowered, the very representation of what makes that place a putrid cesspool of stupidity. Valve actually thinks it's funny that their official forum for their own games and for the largest digital distribution platform of PC games is one of the worst websites on the Internet. The mind reels.

What are these problems you're talking about?
Well for starters, the spy is so badly designed that that it should be rebuilt from the ground up. At the very least it needs a couple of fixes. Critical hits still haven't been removed, and the pyro is in desperate need of either nerfing or complete removal (preferably the latter). TF2 has a lot of design flaws that should have been rectified ages ago. But no, Valve is too busy working on achievements.
Oh wait. Are you the guy who posted the competitive TF2 problems thread?
 

wilsonscrazybed

thinking about your ugly face
Dec 16, 2007
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Just a little note about continuity. You spell out "two" in your title sentence, but then use numbers for everything else. If you're going to spell it out once (and contrary to the box title) you might want to spell out the rest of the numbers as well. Or in contrast you may opt to just use numerals in all cases.

Sorry if this seems nitpicky.
 

milskidasith

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Jul 4, 2008
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No, it doesn't seem nitpicky at all. I totally forgot about that... I was writing this really early and kind of hastily, so I was sure some mistakes were made. I guess it's a good sign that I didn't mess up too much.

And yeah, I think I'll edit in a bit more detail on what weapons do. I always forget that lesson they drilled into your head in middle school English: Write like the readers have no clue what you are talking about.
 

Muphin_Mann

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Oct 4, 2007
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This seems like a good review.

Not that i can really say much about it.

I play on the 360. My experiance is of a very balanced game with limited variety (what? like, four maps, and no class-packs.) thats fun to pick up for a little while every week or day, depending upon how i feel.
 

Spleeni

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Jul 5, 2008
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frontier psychiatrist post=326.69603.665604 said:
Decoy Doctorpus post=326.69603.665582 said:
It's the heavy's taunt.
I've never noticed. But boy, Valve sure are a bunch of fucking retards. "Cry some more" is the defining feature of Steampowered, the very representation of what makes that place a putrid cesspool of stupidity. Valve actually thinks it's funny that their official forum for their own games and for the largest digital distribution platform of PC games is one of the worst websites on the Internet. The mind reels.

What are these problems you're talking about?
Well for starters, the spy is so badly designed that that it should be rebuilt from the ground up. At the very least it needs a couple of fixes. Critical hits still haven't been removed, and the pyro is in desperate need of either nerfing or complete removal (preferably the latter). TF2 has a lot of design flaws that should have been rectified ages ago. But no, Valve is too busy working on achievements.
...this post fills me with rage. Endless rage.

A.Valve is awesome
B.If which came first? Valve or the motto? And doesn't it make bloody sense that the Heavy would make everyone cry?
C.The classes really are balanced, the spy can't take a punch, the pyro needs to get really, really close. I've managed to both fail and win with both; but it's just a tad harder as a spy because it's easy to spycheck.
 
Aug 1, 2008
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Spleeni post=326.69603.667337 said:
A.Valve is awesome
B.If which came first? Valve or the motto? And doesn't it make bloody sense that the Heavy would make everyone cry?
C.The classes really are balanced, the spy can't take a punch, the pyro needs to get really, really close. I've managed to both fail and win with both; but it's just a tad harder as a spy because it's easy to spycheck.
A. Ok, this is a very convincing argument. Except not.
B. What? I'm talking about Steampowered. Everyone and their dog says "cry some more" on Steampowered. It's like Valve is sending a big "fuck you" to all intelligent players by having that as a joke in the game.
C. The spy is not capable of fulfilling its intended role as well it should. The pyro and scout are overpowered.
 

the monopoly guy

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May 8, 2008
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I don't like having the heavy and medic updates so close together. Now all you see is heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic heavy, medic.

Maybe a pyro.



But lumberyard is awesome and strays from the industrial desert theme.
 

Koslov227

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Jun 10, 2008
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I love the pack. It?s refreshing that the game play has changed. It takes me back to the Beta. Every day, people would change their strategies to counter what other people were doing. Or the way how certain classes were utilized changed with the amount of usage. This update once again takes the game and shakes it up enough to keep things fresh.

I prefer to think of these updates as a long Work in Progress. Each time a new one comes out it changes things enough to make the game interesting until the next update comes out. So what if you?re suffering with the influx of heavies, I found that I can play as a spy a lot more, and if the opposing team keeps owning me, I switch to demo or sniper.

To be totally honest, I just want to finish by saying, if all you're going to do is complain after you get free updates, and then really you shouldn't be playing. Sure Valve is taking its sweet time in sending out these updates, but at least they are doing it. Most of the time you either have to pay for something that only comes close to one update (i.e. GTA4 DLC), or you have to rely on the community to provide more.
 

Razzle Bathbone

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Sep 12, 2007
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frontier psychiatrist post=326.69603.665634 said:
blahblahblah
Go play Quake III. Leave the games that are actually fun to the people who actually want to enjoy themselves.

Man, am I ever glad I'll never see you on a TF2 server. People who take their games as seriously as you should never play multiplayer games. You're no fun at all.
 

Janus Vesta

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Mar 25, 2008
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frontier psychiatrist post=326.69603.669065 said:
A. Ok, this is a very convincing argument. Except not.
B. What? I'm talking about Steampowered. Everyone and their dog says "cry some more" on Steampowered. It's like Valve is sending a big "fuck you" to all intelligent players by having that as a joke in the game.
C. The spy is not capable of fulfilling its intended role as well it should. The pyro and scout are overpowered.
A. VALVe is awesome but you are correct, that wasn't a good arguement.
B. Steampowered has always been full of idiots. 'Cry some more' was in the game BEFORE steampowered started to spam it. It was in the first class video. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJyOFXBPh2Q] (At 1:10, this was released over a year ago)
C. Spy does need a buff, Pyro does need a nerf but the Scout is fine.
 

sirtommygunn

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Aug 21, 2008
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frontier psychiatrist post=326.69603.669065 said:
C. The spy is not capable of fulfilling its intended role as well it should. The pyro and scout are overpowered.
Thanks for that, I really needed a good laugh. The scout is only overpowered if you are EXTREMELY careless and your engineer didnt have the time to put up a sentry. The pyro is an ambush class, any actual combat class can take him out if he doesnt get the jump on him. The spy is fine as it is, even with spychecking being easy I still manage to do craploads of damage as one. Are you talking about killing sentries? If so, you shouldnt be trying to solo kill a sentry with the defenders entire team right next to it.
 

the monopoly guy

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May 8, 2008
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Actually, Scouts are really good in arena. You bascially harass people too death. I've played matches as a scout, it was me on two heavys and I still one just by popping in this doorway, shooting a couple times, then popping in another.

Scout is fine, pyro is fine, spy could use a little buffing, and soldiers need more rockets!
 

BlackOps

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Mar 23, 2008
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frontier psychiatrist post=326.69603.669065 said:
C. The spy is not capable of fulfilling its intended role as well it should. The pyro and scout are overpowered.
You're probably one of the people who where complaining to Valve that the pyro should be nerfed. The pyro was never overpowered, people just learned how to play with him. Same for the spy (or any random other class really), if you know how to play him you are incredibly dangerous. It's not the class that is overpowered, it's the player. Generally, I found people complaining about classes being overpowered to be the people who don't know how to play against them. Pyros? Just stay out of range. Scouts? Engineers have an interesting toy called a 'Sentry Gun', or else just get 1 or 2 good shots in and they'll retreat.

Final note: spies need to be redesigned? Contact HeL (Heroic European Legion - pro group), ask them who their best spy player is and go 1-on-1 with him. If you know how to play him a single spy can disrupt even the strongest defenses. Read carefully: DISRUPT, not destroy. There's a reason the spy is classed as support.
 

super_smash_jesus

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Dec 11, 2007
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Are any of these updates ever going to find their way to the xbox? If so, when, because I would like to see some fresh stuff in TF2.