Wal-Mart Pepper Sprayer May Not Be Charged

Epona

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BrionJames said:
Kopikatsu said:
BrionJames said:
Without any witnesses there's no way to tell if she's innocent or guilty. Maybe charges should be levied against Wal Mart for not handling these Black Friday sales properly. I for one think they should, inhuman bastards.
If by 'not handling Black Friday sales properly' you mean that they don't have full scale riot squads armed with shotguns, tasers, and teargas, then no, I suppose they didn't handle the sales properly.

A few years back, people actually broke the doors to a Wal-Mart down in order to get inside. (And trampled one of the employees to death, then complained when told that they had to leave because they murdered someone).

The only solution is to just not have Black Friday at all. Cancel the goddamn holiday. It's obvious that people can't handle it.
Be that as it may, you know they would never shut it down. What's a few deaths compared to a couple million dollars? If they really gave a shit about people they wouldn't be open that early in the morning, so no they aren't handling it properly. Why isn't local law enforcement involved? Maybe the presence of some bubble lights and some badges might cool everyone down.
Wal Mart is always open that early in the morning. 24 hours a day/7 days a week except for Christmas.
 

Fleischer

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kayisking said:
Uhm... Is pepper spray considered a deadly weapon in your country (not mocking you, just asking)?
A boot can be deemed a deadly weapon if it is used to strike someone in the head, but I doubt pepper spray or mace would qualify as deadly weapons. If so, then someone throwing a ghost chili could be charged with using a deadly weapon.
 

Fleischer

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
If she was competitive shopping, she needs to be charged with Assault with a Deadly Weapon.
If she was defending herself, she needs to be charged with Breach of the Peace.
Your first scenario sounds more akin to the charge of battery. Remember: assault = threatening violence, battery = carry out violence

In the second case, I would disagree. If she feared being trampled by a crowd, it would be logical to pepper spray anyone threatening you. If she pulled out a SMG and was thinning out the crowd, I can see how that would be her using improper defensive means.

The_root_of_all_evil said:
Walmart need to be charged with numerous Health/Safety offences though, because I doubt there's been an H&S Audit on the probability of Potential Assault within a Riot situation though.

Yeah, Laws can work both ways.
*ding* *ding*

If the problem was caused by the way Walmart runs their promotions and sales, then Walmart should pay for all public monies related to this fiasco - the police, legal fees and more. If a corporation causes a scene where people are harmed and public resources are depleted, they should be held accountable.

At the very least, I am betting that Walmart had that story WAY past human capacity limits. Fine, fine and fine them some more. Walmart has plenty of money in their coffers.
 

uppitycracker

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There were even reports this woman did it in multiple parts of the store... Another prime example of our failed law enforcement. Good game, fascists.
 

Fensfield

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While of course I think it's these idiot perpetrators who are to blame..

I do wonder if any action ought be brought against Walmart. Brit' that I am I know very little about American laws about this sort of thing and whether there's anyhing can be done to the company for encouraging it, but I'm fairly certain stores, at least, have a responsibility to maintain order; beginning with making sure there aren't enough people crowded into the premises to cause people to be trample to death or impede the fire escapes.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Fleischer said:
Your first scenario sounds more akin to the charge of battery. Remember: assault = threatening violence, battery = carry out violence
Always tough with different countries laws. Especially in America that has different state laws.
It doesn't count as battery either as she didn't use violence.

In the second case, I would disagree. If she feared being trampled by a crowd, it would be logical to pepper spray anyone threatening you. If she pulled out a SMG and was thinning out the crowd, I can see how that would be her using improper defensive means.
Can't work like that though. If she deliberately sprayed 20 people then she is abusing that right. 1 or 2, sure. Otherwise you've just given free reign to riot.

The charges should be ranked up or down depending on the evidence, but this is what she should be charged under. Even if the fine is only $10.
 

Arizona Kyle

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Kopikatsu said:
BrionJames said:
Without any witnesses there's no way to tell if she's innocent or guilty. Maybe charges should be levied against Wal Mart for not handling these Black Friday sales properly. I for one think they should, inhuman bastards.
If by 'not handling Black Friday sales properly' you mean that they don't have full scale riot squads armed with shotguns, tasers, and teargas, then no, I suppose they didn't handle the sales properly.

A few years back, people actually broke the doors to a Wal-Mart down in order to get inside. (And trampled one of the employees to death, then complained when told that they had to leave because they murdered someone).

The only solution is to just not have Black Friday at all. Cancel the goddamn holiday. It's obvious that people can't handle it.
This is America we demand the sales!!!! haha joking aside i would just say that i have pleasant experiences with black friday.... I went to best buy and got NFS: The Run for 27 bucks, helped some lady get some turtle beaches for her son, got a young woman number, trampledanoldladytodeathandkilledsomeotherpeople, paid for my stuff and left
 

Dragonforce525

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Every year I hear of stories surrounding Black Friday involving assault, trampling and death, so do people just forget that this crap happens? Do they assume THIS year will be different and everyone will line up in an orderly fashion? So I think this self defense line is complete bullshit, it's like going to a heavy metal gig and tazering everyone who bumps into you, you're going to a heavy metal gig you aren't going to see Les Miserables, if you don't like big crowded stores filled with people grabbing at everything with "20% off" sticker on them then DON'T GO SHOPPING ON BLACK FUCKING FRIDAY! So either she's a moron who doesn't have a clue what black friday is or she purposely sprayed people to get a half price toaster.
 

Fleischer

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
It doesn't count as battery either as she didn't use violence.
You can use other implements to commit battery - a la a bat to the face.

The_root_of_all_evil said:
Can't work like that though. If she deliberately sprayed 20 people then she is abusing that right. 1 or 2, sure. Otherwise you've just given free reign to riot.
Negative. If a mass of people are threatening to turn me into squished jelly, it is allowable to pepper spray people to get them to back off. If I pepper spray them and then start beating them as they feverishly wipe their eyes, I am overstepping my grounds of self protection. At such a a point, I would be breaking the law.

The_root_of_all_evil said:
The charges should be ranked up or down depending on the evidence, but this is what she should be charged under. Even if the fine is only $10.
Los Angeles County is filled to the brim with pending legal cases, criminal and civil. They will not waste their time nor their resources to prosecute someone for 200 bucks.
 

Fleischer

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uppitycracker said:
There were even reports this woman did it in multiple parts of the store... Another prime example of our failed law enforcement.
Failed? You should read the story more carefully
she may not be charged with any criminal offenses
and
a formal decision about whether or not charges will be filed is expected by Wednesday.
The police are not closing the case, nor are they alleging she committed a crime. The police want to be sure they have reasonable claims to detain her before arresting and charging her.

uppitycracker said:
Good game, fascists.
You should understand words before using them.
 

wulfy42

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Last year I went to a walmart at midnight for the video game deals. I spent over an hour there....not trying to get any video games (the original reason I went) but trying to keep people from killing each other. I'm pretty big (6 foot, 250 pounds) and I was literally holding back 10+ people who were trying to trample a lady on the ground to get to a pallet of games. It was freaking crazy. I was horrified that the only people not pushing/shoving and trampling each other were SITTING ON THE SIDE TAKING VIDEO!!!

It was on the bay area news the next day. I was the only person out of hundreds that was helping anyone...including freaking employees who got the heck out of there asap.

So yeah, I blame Walmart. They saw what happened last year at many stores but did the same thing this year anyway. They should have let in only so many people at a time, or set up lines and partitioned off areas etc. The lady with the pepper spray may have been using it to get to items...or may have been defending herself, but at least she was not pushing down helpless people and then trampling on them.

Other stores seem able to at least have some order, but walmart just lets chaos reign. They are very lucky nobody died this year and it was just that...luck. They should be sued big time by anyone who was injured....since that seems to be the only way to get them to do what is right.
 

uppitycracker

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Fleischer said:
uppitycracker said:
There were even reports this woman did it in multiple parts of the store... Another prime example of our failed law enforcement.
Failed? You should read the story more carefully
she may not be charged with any criminal offenses
and
a formal decision about whether or not charges will be filed is expected by Wednesday.
The police are not closing the case, nor are they alleging she committed a crime. The police want to be sure they have reasonable claims to detain her before arresting and charging her.

uppitycracker said:
Good game, fascists.
You should understand words before using them.
I understand perfectly. Based on all the evidence that was surrounding this previously, to how they're talking now, it's easy to see where it'll most likely go. Calm down, tough guy.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Fleischer said:
You can use other implements to commit battery - a la a bat to the face.
Which is violence...

Negative. If a mass of people are threatening to turn me into squished jelly, it is allowable to pepper spray people to get them to back off.
Not in any sane country, given that the Police/Army are unable to do that.
Los Angeles County is filled to the brim with pending legal cases, criminal and civil. They will not waste their time nor their resources to prosecute someone for 200 bucks.
Some might say that this is symptomatic of a larger problem then. One that needs sorting out before Los Angeles becomes Los Diablos.
Again.
 

Epona

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uppitycracker said:
There were even reports this woman did it in multiple parts of the store... Another prime example of our failed law enforcement. Good game, fascists.
She's a woman, that makes it ok. If it were a man though, I doubt law enforcement would be looking for a way to get him off the hook.
 

Fleischer

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uppitycracker said:
I was the only person out of hundreds that was helping anyone...including freaking employees who got the heck out of there asap.
If I was working for shit wages at a corporation that frequently mistreats its employees and union busts like no one's business, I would probably be an apathetic human being. With that said, I am glad you stepped up and helped out in the situation.

uppitycracker said:
They should be sued big time by anyone who was injured....since that seems to be the only way to get them to do what is right.
Bingo. Corporations only care about money. Hit them where it hurts, and they will respond.
 

Kopikatsu

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Crono1973 said:
uppitycracker said:
There were even reports this woman did it in multiple parts of the store... Another prime example of our failed law enforcement. Good game, fascists.
She's a woman, that makes it ok. If it were a man though, I doubt law enforcement would be looking for a way to get him off the hook.
To be fair, a man probably would have just shoved people out of the way. 'Course, that would probably be less damaging/panic inducing as pepper spraying people.
 

Fleischer

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Fleischer said:
You can use other implements to commit battery - a la a bat to the face.
Which is violence...
Please look up the definitions of battery, assault and violence if you want to further this section of the discussion.

The_root_of_all_evil said:
Fleischer said:
Negative. If a mass of people are threatening to turn me into squished jelly, it is allowable to pepper spray people to get them to back off.
Not in any sane country, given that the Police/Army are unable to do that.
Do you understand that non-lethal weapons, such as pepper spray, are allocated to police officers? I've seen the cadets at the Lowell Police Academy get sprayed in the face as part of their training in non-lethal weapons. Law enforcement is trained and equipped with non-lethal weapons to handle situations where people are endangered.

The_root_of_all_evil said:
Fleischer said:
Los Angeles County is filled to the brim with pending legal cases, criminal and civil. They will not waste their time nor their resources to prosecute someone for 200 bucks.
Some might say that this is symptomatic of a larger problem then. One that needs sorting out before Los Angeles becomes Los Diablos.
Again.
The issue with Los Angeles, along with much of American society, is far too great to be addressed by fining someone for spraying people, if she was breaking the law. Americans, as well as any other people, need to give a shit about their fellow human beings.
 

Fleischer

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Crono1973 said:
She's a woman, that makes it ok. If it were a man though, I doubt law enforcement would be looking for a way to get him off the hook.
I call bullshit there. Justice is blind. Being a woman doesn't give you free permission to harm others.
 

Epona

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Kopikatsu said:
Crono1973 said:
uppitycracker said:
There were even reports this woman did it in multiple parts of the store... Another prime example of our failed law enforcement. Good game, fascists.
She's a woman, that makes it ok. If it were a man though, I doubt law enforcement would be looking for a way to get him off the hook.
To be fair, a man probably would have just shoved people out of the way. 'Course, that would probably be less damaging/panic inducing as pepper spraying people.
Yes, that would be violence if anyone got hurt and no one would be looking for a reason to excuse him.