War crimes: A quick hypothetical

[Froggy Slayer]

If an alien species that was at a similar technological level to us invaded, except this species has no concept of morality, and therefore believes that ANYTHING is permitted in a war, should we still hold to the Geneva convention and avoid enacting war crimes upon them?

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Well, they wouldn't have any human rights, if you catch my drift...

So light the flamethrower and break out the mustard gas, it's time to kick some alien ass.

 

[Cabisco]

Nuke em, let other people decide whether it was 'morally' wrong whilst we sit in our caves and eat radioactive super rat/donkey hybrids until the winter passes.

 

[Shock and Awe]

First off, how the hell did they get here if they are at our level?

As for rights, since they aren't recognizing civilians I say fuck em. Capet bomb their asses with napalm and chemical weapons.

 

[Mysterious Username]

I don't think we should suddenly get away from our own morals just because our enemy has none.
I mean just because you're fighting monsters doesn't mean you have to become worse than them.

 

[LtWigglesworth]

I can imagine that it would be disregarded as a) we'd likely be fighting for survival, and b) it'll be hard to emphasise with something extremely alien, and so it'll be easy to gas/napalm them to hell.

 

[Ryotknife]

errrrrr, I can't imagine them adhering to the Geneva convention, so I'd say no.

The same could have been said about Japan in WWII, should we have tortured Japaneese POWs?

I was thinking they'd probably do something along the lines of stereotypical alien stuff (you know, anal probes, etc). So we might as well return the favor =P (for research purposes perhaps? I dunno)

And people said that about the Japanese too. They are abusing our prisoners and civilians, why should we respect them?

You sign on to the conventions because you want to be decent, and you promise to do so even if the other side are asses.

Although if they don't look pretty then I'm sure most people would give up their morals and go for the most barbaric approach possible.

how many people in power actually care if they are decent? Geneva Conventions are merely a PR tool, ones that are not enforced for the most part and parts are usually ignored by many members once an armed conflict breaks out. That does not diminish the Geneva Conventions accomplishments. If it instills even a little bit of civility to conflicts sometimes, it is worth it.

As to the topic of an alien invasion. If their purpose was to wipe out mankind, then all bets are off. Anything and everything is fair game. Why? Because if mankind gets wiped out, every hardship, accomplishment, and sacrifice experienced by any and all people and countries throughout history would have been utterly pointless and meaningless. Without someone to carry on our story, every single human life that ever existed would have meant absolutely nothing. That is a far greater sin than anything we could possibly do to them (other than wipe them out)

killing someone is one thing, rendering their entire existence as meaningless and erasing all traces is quite another.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

Surely it matters what kind of creature it is. They may not even have self-consciousness. If they're just a giant sandworm with a pea-sized brain, then war crimes against them will likely be no different from us taking a shower and eliminating the millions of bacteria covering your body.

 

[King of Asgaard]

The Geneva Convention was drawn up as a rule for dealing with humans, so no.
Either we write another convention for an alien species, or hit it with the fuck it stamp and toast us some Sectoids.

 

[BeeGeenie]

People find it easy enough to dehumanize their fellow man. I don't think a completely different species would be a problem for anyone.
Well... PETA might whine about it.

 

[Toy Master Typhus]

The whole idea of war crimes is a little stupid in my opinion. In war unless there is some big strength one side is using there is no need to limit yourself to using aproved weapons, it is only through the horror of war we are able to move past it.

Take the WWII Japan for instance: They were so brainwashed by their leaders that on islands the U.S. retook the population would slit the throats of their children and jump off cliffs because they heard Marines were recruited from insane asylums. They prepared civilians for suicide bombings and back on the mainland trained children as young as 6 how to fight with staffs in the event of a U.S. Invasion. We unleashed the horror of a nuclear holocaust on them and they lost the will to fight. It is better to end wars quickly then to dally with them on rules that only succeed in getting MORE people killed.

Don't hope that Human Rights and Geneva convention will save your ass from humans either. It is just one of those things that allows you to say your a good guy. It will boil down to people betraying to join the aliens or becoming slaves after being experiencing the horrors of being burned by a magnifying glass from low orbit alien ships with no way to fight back.

 

[bauke67]

What would be the point in having morals if you can ignore them when someone else does?
It's not like since a murder was once committed we should prance about murdering eachother, is it?
No that's right, we've got prisons for those people.
Likeways, a couple of aliens who have no manners should not be able to convince us to lose ours.

 

[TwiZtah]

I don't think we should suddenly get away from our own morals just because our enemy has none.
I mean just because you're fighting monsters doesn't mean you have to become worse than them.

Even if we all go extinct because of this? No, that would be utterly fucking stupid.

 

[Mr_Spanky]

Probably depends on whether we were more likely to win or lose the war. If we were likely to win then at least SOME of that Geneva convention moral integrity should be preserved.

If we were more likely to lose then use whatever unpleasant tactics and interrogation techniques you like to stand a better chance of winning. Holding the moral high ground is great if you live to tell the tale - if not then it's merely a hinderance.

Like in WW2 the allies were not exactly an example of compassionate perfection when it came to prisoners and acts of war. But then again its perhaps better that those things were done and the war wasnt won by the Nazis than the other way around.

It also depends if there would be an actual tactical advantage to behaving against common morality. If there was no strategic benefit then no it wouldnt be ok - causing pain and suffering without reason is never acceptable.

 

[Autumnflame]

The geneva convention is just for public on the record warfare.

Thats what Black ops teams are for to do whats illegal in the shadows. and the countries can all deny responisbility

 

[TIMESWORDSMAN]

I just rewatched every episode of Doctor Who since 2005, so any violent opinions I have are met with the face of David Tennant looking cross.

I think that we should adhere to our own moral standards. Just because Geneva doesn't apply to a situation doesn't mean you should do it anyway. Think before you act.

This situation is also highly implausible.

 

[Toy Master Typhus]

Mor

What would be the point in having morals if you can ignore them when someone else does?
It's not like since a murder was once committed we should prance about murdering eachother, is it?

YES WE DO!. We hear about it all the time in the news when a person finds their boyfriends/girlfriend/spouse cheating and murder them. We see it in war when a soldier suffers enough stress they commit atrocities. Whether you help an old lady across the street or shoot up an elementary school on their first day you are still human and no amount of good deeds or sick crimes will make you better or worse.

Morals are about as important as titles and only have as much worth as the individual believes in them: You may call yourself a king and feel like a king but if you have no land or people to follow you you are no king.

 

[Ryotknife]

What would be the point in having morals if you can ignore them when someone else does?
It's not like since a murder was once committed we should prance about murdering eachother, is it?
No that's right, we've got prisons for those people.
Likeways, a couple of aliens who have no manners should not be able to convince us to lose ours.

what is the point of morals/honor/civility if it causes billions of people to be slaughtered needlessly?

there is a time and a place for those kinds of things, at least where countries are involved. That doesnt mean we should be immoral jerks all the time, throwing out morals should be as a last resort. If the decision is between acting morally or saving many lives, im sorry lives should win out. You can always re-evalute your morals or try to change yourself afterwards, but you cant bring back the dead.

It is the same thing as a person defending themselves and killing an attacker (even though killing is immoral), or a starving family stealing food.

 

[emmettr3]

Honestly, we'd need to try every dirty trick in the book to survive an alien invasion.
The military would know this, and given the chaos and bloodshed of a full-scale alien attack, there'd be nothing to stop them from breaking every rule they needed to. You wouldn't WANT to stop them from breaking every rule they needed to.
If they can find a way to make the Geneva conventions not apply to terrorists/insurgents/Cambodians/HAMAS/bad guy of the week, they can sure as heck make them inapplicable to freaking aliens.

 

[Thaluikhain]

errrrrr, I can't imagine them adhering to the Geneva convention, so I'd say no.

The same could have been said about Japan in WWII, should we have tortured Japaneese POWs?

Countries that sign the Geneva Convention must adhere to its rules. If a country isn't a part of said convention, but another is, the latter cannot break the laws against the former.

Er, as I understand it, the Geneva protocols only protects people who abide by it.

So, if your opponent doesn't, you don't have to abide by the Geneva protocols in regards to them, specifically. You still have to carry your arms openly, wear uniforms and stuff, because that's not against anyone in particular.

Now, it's important to remember that people who aren't protected by the Geneva protocols aren't "fair game", just those set of rules don't apply. They then fall under the other laws of the various countries involved.

So, in my country torturing prisoners is illegal, not because it's banned by the Geneva protocols, but because it's banned by my government anyway.

...

However, this leads to some legal oddities. It's not legal to use tear gas in military operations (though interpretations vary), it is legal to use them in various countries by, say, police forces, who are also allowed to use hollow point bullets.

There'd be a lot of careful looking at or amending the wording of various rules.

...

As an aside, this is something I personally am interested in, as it is important in regards to various sci-fi stuff.