War crimes: A quick hypothetical

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FalloutJack

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Froggy Slayer said:
If an alien species that was at a similar technological level to us invaded, except this species has no concept of morality, and therefore believes that ANYTHING is permitted in a war, should we still hold to the Geneva convention and avoid enacting war crimes upon them?
Sadly, while the Vatican acknowledges alien beings as god's creations too, the Geneva Convention would stipulate that its policies do not currently cover extra-terrestrial forms of life. In short, there is no lawful protection for non-human intelligent life at this time.
 

Thaluikhain

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FalloutJack said:
Froggy Slayer said:
If an alien species that was at a similar technological level to us invaded, except this species has no concept of morality, and therefore believes that ANYTHING is permitted in a war, should we still hold to the Geneva convention and avoid enacting war crimes upon them?
Sadly, while the Vatican acknowledges alien beings as god's creations too, the Geneva Convention would stipulate that its policies do not currently cover extra-terrestrial forms of life.
Er, where does it say that? The Geneva Conventions tend to use terms like "combatant", which could cover aliens.
 

Froggy Slayer

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Shock and Awe said:
First off, how the hell did they get here if they are at our level?

As for rights, since they aren't recognizing civilians I say fuck em. Capet bomb their asses with napalm and chemical weapons.
Similar technological level. They have FTL transport craft and some fancy stuff, but nothing that they can use to just steamroller Earth.
 

exessmirror

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i think nerve gas and nukes are fair game as long as they kill immediately. i dont get why they cant use teargas in military operation or even hollow point bullets.
 

SckizoBoy

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bauke67 said:
What would be the point in having morals if you can ignore them when someone else does?
It's not like since a murder was once committed we should prance about murdering eachother, is it?
No that's right, we've got prisons for those people.
Likeways, a couple of aliens who have no manners should not be able to convince us to lose ours.
You're thinking of it too much as a human vs human-like scenario.

An alien race who has absolutely no compunction about wiping us off the face of the earth clearly does not adhere to the morals that make us human. Just as they would surely wonder 'why aren't these idiots busting their hump to kill us? a strange war they wage, unlike us civilised denizens' or words to that effect. Without an in depth sociological and psychological study/profile of the enemy at hand, understanding their morals is reduced to the simple fact that: they are willing to destroy us and spare no expense in doing so.

Therefore... no holds barred, everything's fair. The aliens view us as animals to be culled and don't look as though they're going to change their opinion any time soon... *shrug*
 

wintercoat

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"Well, the entire human race was wiped out, but at least we stuck to our morals!"

Yeah, no, gas the fuckers.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

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To be honest, we could probably take them using conventional means... There are legal ways of disabling tech which are quick and easy...

Then again:

  • If they came here they are surpassing our technologies
    If they are on this planet then they can only have laser guided/direct fire weapons, as they will not have access to our satelites
    They have to some how land and establish bases/cover before being shelled to kingdom come
    This would probably be a scenario where the world would take part... USA, China and Russia teamed up.... Ouch!
    Militias and terrorists don't adhere to the Geneva and Hague conventions anyway!
 

launchpadmcqwak

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Mysterious Username said:
I don't think we should suddenly get away from our own morals just because our enemy has none.
I mean just because you're fighting monsters doesn't mean you have to become worse than them.
Yes Sir...YO DOOKAY, BRING UP THE CHEMICAL NUKE NAPALM DEATH BOMBS!
 

launchpadmcqwak

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launchpadmcqwak said:
Mysterious Username said:
I don't think we should suddenly get away from our own morals just because our enemy has none.
I mean just because you're fighting monsters doesn't mean you have to become worse than them.
Yes Sir...YO DOOKAY, BRING UP THE CHEMICAL NUKE NAPALM DEATH BOMBS!
DAMNIT THE QUOTE BUTTON HAS MOVED TO THE TOP OF THE NAME, my bad i was quoting someone else Brudda
 

Froggy Slayer

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Some extra info; these aliens aren't trying to exterminate us, they instead want to break our spirit. They are desperate; their home planet is extremely overpopulated and invading ours and replacing us (except for a few downtrodden dregs, kept as a warning to any species stupid enough to mess with them) is their only hope for survival. They are therefore unwilling to use the most destructive WMD's such as nukes, as they want the planet to be relatively pristine. Before you say anything, the transport vessels have good point defence, so we cannot just know them out of the sky. They are also willing to use much nerve gas.
 

Starik20X6

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TopazFusion said:
anal probes
"Why does everyone always assume that? What am I doing, harvesting farts? How much can I learn from an ass?!" - Paul

While I think some of the rules might need to be bent/broken, I'd rather not go out of my way to be a bastard to them. You know, don't torture them or anything.

Honestly, I'd be more interested in figuring out how they got here while at a similar tech-level to us.
 

Moth_Monk

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First of all, why would we be at war with them?

Secondly, if they have the technology to get here then humans would have as much hope beating them as an ant does beating me.
 

Froggy Slayer

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Moth_Monk said:
First of all, why would we be at war with them?

Secondly, if they have the technology to get here then humans would have as much hope beating them as an ant does beating me.
I'm assuming that they're only about 100 years ahead of us, and that the FTL discovery was by chance. They're at war with us because their planet is overpopulated, and they're similar enough to us biologically that our planet is suitable for habitation, if not for all the FILTHY humans.
 
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Yeah, otherwise we end up having a feud with them and having to war with them for years. Look at all the times people have committed war crimes on Earth, gotten away with it and had a horrific relationship with them for years.
 

Grant Stackhouse

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Froggy Slayer said:
Some extra info; these aliens aren't trying to exterminate us, they instead want to break our spirit. They are desperate; their home planet is extremely overpopulated and invading ours and replacing us (except for a few downtrodden dregs, kept as a warning to any species stupid enough to mess with them) is their only hope for survival. They are therefore unwilling to use the most destructive WMD's such as nukes, as they want the planet to be relatively pristine. Before you say anything, the transport vessels have good point defence, so we cannot just know them out of the sky. They are also willing to use much nerve gas.
Crap, so now we not only stand the chance of being wiped out, but we also face the humiliation of being defeated by a society too stupid to control their own population and properly manage their own resources? Humanity could be forced to hand over the earth to creatures who will likely use it up and perpetuate their own desperation? Kill them all.

As far as human vs human warfare goes, I really don't understand the belief that civilians should be spared from slaughter. Victory comes from the complete depopulation of the enemy country. Anything less just gives them the chance to regain their strength and try again later. Just look at Rome and Carthage. If I recall correctly, they went to war three times. At the end of the third war, Rome starved the people of Carthage within their own walls, then kicked down the doors and burned every last citizen of Carthage, living or dead, in a great pile in the middle of the city. Carthage never attacked Rome again, because nobody was left alive to call themselves Carthaginian.
 

Froggy Slayer

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The Unworthy Gentleman said:
Yeah, otherwise we end up having a feud with them and having to war with them for years. Look at all the times people have committed war crimes on Earth, gotten away with it and had a horrific relationship with them for years.
These aliens don't care about how we act to them. They want our planet and will not stop until they have it.
 
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Froggy Slayer said:
The Unworthy Gentleman said:
Yeah, otherwise we end up having a feud with them and having to war with them for years. Look at all the times people have committed war crimes on Earth, gotten away with it and had a horrific relationship with them for years.
These aliens don't care about how we act to them. They want our planet and will not stop until they have it.
Well that wasn't explicitly said. In which case we treat them like any country that has demanded the world without regard to war crimes: we beat them with the Geneva Convention's rules and then offer them the chance to become allies. If they refuse then we occupy their planet.
 

Jordi

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I'm sorry, but there isn't a country in the world that wouldn't (doesn't) violate the Geneva Conventions if it's in their best interest. And that is against fellow humans! The "success" of Geneva is that it makes it somewhat less attractive to commit atrocious acts, because there might be more consequences from other countries, but that's about it.

For every single last country winning comes first, and morals come second. If we face annihilation or total oppression, everything needs to be done in order to win. If we can help it, we should adhere to our own morals, but that has a way lower priority. Ideally I would like to reason and negotiate with these aliens. If we cannot negotiate not going to war, perhaps we could establish our own "Geneva conventions" with them, as that would also be in their best interest.

Grant Stackhouse said:
Froggy Slayer said:
Some extra info; these aliens aren't trying to exterminate us, they instead want to break our spirit. They are desperate; their home planet is extremely overpopulated and invading ours and replacing us (except for a few downtrodden dregs, kept as a warning to any species stupid enough to mess with them) is their only hope for survival. They are therefore unwilling to use the most destructive WMD's such as nukes, as they want the planet to be relatively pristine. Before you say anything, the transport vessels have good point defence, so we cannot just know them out of the sky. They are also willing to use much nerve gas.
Crap, so now we not only stand the chance of being wiped out, but we also face the humiliation of being defeated by a society too stupid to control their own population and properly manage their own resources? Humanity could be forced to hand over the earth to creatures who will likely use it up and perpetuate their own desperation? Kill them all.

As far as human vs human warfare goes, I really don't understand the belief that civilians should be spared from slaughter. Victory comes from the complete depopulation of the enemy country. Anything less just gives them the chance to regain their strength and try again later. Just look at Rome and Carthage. If I recall correctly, they went to war three times. At the end of the third war, Rome starved the people of Carthage within their own walls, then kicked down the doors and burned every last citizen of Carthage, living or dead, in a great pile in the middle of the city. Carthage never attacked Rome again, because nobody was left alive to call themselves Carthaginian.
I don't know the exact story of Carthage, but one story I have heard time and again is that the Romans were usually actually pretty good to the populations of conquered countries. Most citizens were probably just trading in one oppressor for another, and at least the Romans brought economic prosperity with them. When you think about how big the Roman empire was at one point, this actually makes a lot of sense. They didn't wipe out every single last population in that area just so that all of the Italians could have bigger gardens or something. That would also spread Roman forces way too thin.
 

Madgamer13

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Greets!

Geneva convention wouldn't matter in the event of first contact alien warfare, since no human would have the slightest clue what to do. An additional convention would emerge in the wake of human-alien warfare, however. After some sort of ability to communicate would be established, assuming that all sides survive the conflict.

In the end, aliens would just suffer the same red tape as humans do to other humans, it would only take time and as much as is needed to progress.

I dont really see what the problem would be, regardless of how morality can be waived to secure survival, morality always comes into play in the aftermath.
 

Madgamer13

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Greets!

Indeed, dropping two nuke bombs onto major population centers was quite patriotic of the Americans.