Warcraft - Keep Grinding

Marter

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Warcraft - Keep Grinding

Warcraft doesn't work, but it doesn't work for more fascinating reasons than why video game adaptations typically fail.

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Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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This is what happens when you hire an unknown director, unknown screenwriters, unknown producers, and unknown actors, and unknown composer whose only famous work is game of thrones but nothing else.

The movie's soundtrack is utterley forgettable and does not sound Warcraft-y enough, this sounds like Warcraft:

 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Anyway for people who wants to get interested in the lore I suggest reading the Warcraft Chronicles book VOL.1

Since its the ofifcial canon of the games and it litirally starts from their version of the Big Bang to the beginning of the first War.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/World_of_Warcraft:_Chronicle_Volume_1

Also this youtuber famed for Warcraft lore named Nobbel87 already did a few lore videos on the Origin part of Warcraft:

 

Igor-Rowan

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I will admit, I am not into Warcraft (the gaming series) at all, my friends tried to get me into WoW back in 2011, but I was completely away from gaming during that period so I slowly stopped from the very few times I was accessing.

But now this movie gets my interst, I love movies like LoTR that have an entire lore behind it, so even though the movie is not very good, I do get invested if the universe is interesting enough: Jupiter Ascending, Divergent, 5th Wave, Sky High, Starship Troopers, those movies have universes more interesting than the stories they are presenting, from the looks of it, Warcraft is for me.
 

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Samtemdo8 said:
This is what happens when you hire an unknown director, unknown screenwriters, unknown producers, and unknown actors, and unknown composer whose only famous work is game of thrones but nothing else.
Duncan Jones is hardly unknown. The actors are hardly unknown either - Toby Kebell, Paula Patton, and Travis Fimmell are names I know off the top of my head. And I'm pretty sure the composer did the score of Pacific Rim, which is generally well regarded score-wise. Certainly the main theme is.

Igor-Rowan said:
I do get invested if the universe is interesting enough: Jupiter Ascending, Divergent, 5th Wave, Sky High, Starship Troopers, those movies have universes more interesting than the stories they are presenting, from the looks of it, Warcraft is for me.
It's perhaps not really my business, but Starship Troopers has an interesting universe? I actually quite like the film (along with Roughnecks and the original novel as well), but I never considered worldbuilding to be any of their strengths. Well, maybe the novel, but that was more based on Heinlein's ideas, and they were more based on society and government rather than the actual setting those questions were being asked in.

I certainly agree wit Jupiter Ascending though. Beautiful film to look at, interesting premise and worldbuilding, but as a movie in of itself? Ugh.
 

Igor-Rowan

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Hawki said:
It's perhaps not really my business, but Starship Troopers has an interesting universe? I actually quite like the film (along with Roughnecks and the original novel as well), but I never considered worldbuilding to be any of their strengths. Well, maybe the novel, but that was more based on Heinlein's ideas, and they were more based on society and government rather than the actual setting those questions were being asked in.

I certainly agree wit Jupiter Ascending though. Beautiful film to look at, interesting premise and worldbuilding, but as a movie in of itself? Ugh.
Maybe it wasn't Stormship Troopers, I think it was Event Horizon or something like that (don't ask how I made that leap).

About Jupiter Ascending, its main problem was the "look at this amazing concept and universe that we're going to EXPLAIN to you", the Wachowskis did get better with Sense8, but that was a LOT of wasted potential. When I watch it, I like to imagine Caine with a red hat and overalls, Jupiter in a pink dress and Balem is as reptilian as his army and BAM you get a Super Mario Galaxy movie.
 

Mylinkay Asdara

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Eh, I quite liked it actually and I don't play WoW but my fiance does (that's why we went obviously) - I felt it was a good enough fantasy movie to interest someone like myself and entertain, but clearly he got more out of it than I did because he's rolling up new characters right now. Lol

Really I mean what did you expect from the thing in all honesty? If it was more than a fantasy tale and some niffty graphics and a few witty one liners made as in-jokes I'm not sure you were setting your sights appropriately.

Additional note: I thin it is a mistake to compare something like this to LOTR movies. Tolkien lore is deep and wide and yet much of it is barely covered in the movies, instead it is either simplified or the movie relies on the knowledge of the viewer from the source material. This movie does some of that as well, but in an attempt to interest people in the Warcraft universe it is also trying to pull people in to the world. The aims are different. A better comparison might be the Hobbit movies to this... although not much better, and if that were the case I would say this was better if only because it condensed material rather than stretching it beyond its capability to stay interesting.
 

FPLOON

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As a non-fan of the Warcraft fanchise, I can still see myself enjoying this movie for what it is in general... Probably the same way I enjoyed that Ratchet & Clank movie despite already being [somewhat of] a fan of that particular franchise, anyway...

Other than that, on a related unrelated note, aren't adaptions suppose to work for the medium its working with instead of against it?
008Zulu said:
I bet with the sequel to this movie, half of what they said will be retconned.
That's not until the second [aka the better] sequel... :p
 
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Honestly not that surprise. I've been a Warcraft player since the original RTS in '93, and I've always felt that the story was the franchise's Achilles heel; its just generic by the numbers D&D guff, with little to make it stand out from any other stock fantasy setting. It was only ever Blizzards insane level of gameplay design and technical polish that made Warcraft a major franchise, with the story never being much more than window dressing to vaguely justify all the action. Divorced from the game elements that actually made it good, I'm not at all surprised to hear that the story falls on its face.
 

Marter

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Samtemdo8 said:
This is what happens when you hire an unknown director, unknown screenwriters, unknown producers, and unknown actors, and unknown composer whose only famous work is game of thrones but nothing else.

The movie's soundtrack is utterley forgettable and does not sound Warcraft-y enough, this sounds like Warcraft:

There's no reason that hiring names is better, it's about talent and suiting the roles. Casting just for how famous people are, stunt casting, is a failure on the part of the director and casting director. And the opinion of the reviewer to whom you're responding is that the actors aren't given room to shine, because they're busy spouting your precious lore.

Marter himself said in the review that Jones is a great film maker.

Unknown composer. Anyone who isn't Hans Zimmer or John Williams is going to be relatively unknown, the question is the strength of the compositions. I checked out the sound track, it's not nearly as bad as you're saying, and to say it's in a different genre or feel is just silly. The track he's best known for is very memorable, and well liked. It's perfectly competent composition too, from the perspective of composing.

As Marter saw it, the problem was that it was too much of an adaptation, and was overburdened with Warcraft Lore, they very stuff you drag into these threads
 

RJ 17

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Recommendation: It's not bad enough to say "don't see it," but it's also not likely worth your time unless you're already a fan of the games.
I'd say this pretty much sums up what I've heard of it so far from critics that didn't just up and shit all over it.

This is quite specifically a movie made for the fans. If you enjoy the lore and world of...ahem...WarCraft, then you'll likely enjoy this film. However to anyone not versed in WarCraft lore, it's pretty hard to penetrate. This is apparently why most critics are shitting all over it. :p
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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fisheries said:
Samtemdo8 said:
This is what happens when you hire an unknown director, unknown screenwriters, unknown producers, and unknown actors, and unknown composer whose only famous work is game of thrones but nothing else.

The movie's soundtrack is utterley forgettable and does not sound Warcraft-y enough, this sounds like Warcraft:

There's no reason that hiring names is better, it's about talent and suiting the roles. Casting just for how famous people are, stunt casting, is a failure on the part of the director and casting director. And the opinion of the reviewer to whom you're responding is that the actors aren't given room to shine, because they're busy spouting your precious lore.

Marter himself said in the review that Jones is a great film maker.

Unknown composer. Anyone who isn't Hans Zimmer or John Williams is going to be relatively unknown, the question is the strength of the compositions. I checked out the sound track, it's not nearly as bad as you're saying, and to say it's in a different genre or feel is just silly. The track he's best known for is very memorable, and well liked. It's perfectly competent composition too, from the perspective of composing.

As Marter saw it, the problem was that it was too much of an adaptation, and was overburdened with Warcraft Lore, they very stuff you drag into these threads
Well I did mention Screenwriters. And they clearly failed at giving material that makes the actors shine, something I hope the sequals (especially regarding certain characters) will rectify because this franchise does have CHARACRTERS that will not just spout lore exposition and charcacter that you will care about.

And if you think the movie was already overburderned with lore you have not seen nothing yet how big this will get into the future.

Like for example Fel is the product of the Burning Legion, Demons born from the Twisting Nether, lead by a fallen Titan named Sargeras.



The son of the King character and the son of Durotan the Orc (Named Varian Wrynn and Thrall respecitively) becomes main characrters later in the lore and both are even more interesting than King Llane and Durotan.

Varian Wrynn:



Thrall, Son of Durotan:

 

Odbarc

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Having recently just seen the Warcraft movie, I don't get why people are saying it's not good. It works really well. Once you get used to how the orcs look compared to the humans. Like Giant, Wreck-it Ralph hands holding his wife's normal human sized hand). It was neat how readily and frequently the mages cast spells. If there's a complaint to be had is that it looks too good. Like they tried too hard to make every spell look amazing.

The story makes sense. The characters motives are mostly clear except and until the twists are revealed.
I found the actor playing Medeiv (or however his name is spelled, I don't want to google it right now) seemed constantly expressionless it seemed. Crazy-eyes always has his crazy-eyes. The King didn't feel regal enough and kind of stood out a little bit too. The weapons and such were very Warcraft-y in a way that kind of detracts from the realism of a live-action movie but once the action starts you don't seem to notice it.
There's never a moment where "Why not use the Eagle?" because when they can, they do use it. (Hippogryphs, I think they're called in Warcraft lore).
Because it's a prequel to the games and whatnot, there wasn't room for the happy ending and everyone lives together and I'm glad they didn't aim for that. The movie feels complete without forcing it into a corner it didn't belong.

tl;dr: It anything it felt too short. I wanted more by the end.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Odbarc said:
Having recently just seen the Warcraft movie, I don't get why people are saying it's not good. It works really well. Once you get used to how the orcs look compared to the humans. Like Giant, Wreck-it Ralph hands holding his wife's normal human sized hand). It was neat how readily and frequently the mages cast spells. If there's a complaint to be had is that it looks too good. Like they tried too hard to make every spell look amazing.

The story makes sense. The characters motives are mostly clear except and until the twists are revealed.
I found the actor playing Medeiv (or however his name is spelled, I don't want to google it right now) seemed constantly expressionless it seemed. Crazy-eyes always has his crazy-eyes. The King didn't feel regal enough and kind of stood out a little bit too. The weapons and such were very Warcraft-y in a way that kind of detracts from the realism of a live-action movie but once the action starts you don't seem to notice it.
There's never a moment where "Why not use the Eagle?" because when they can, they do use it. (Hippogryphs, I think they're called in Warcraft lore).
Because it's a prequel to the games and whatnot, there wasn't room for the happy ending and everyone lives together and I'm glad they didn't aim for that. The movie feels complete without forcing it into a corner it didn't belong.

tl;dr: It anything it felt too short. I wanted more by the end.
Gryphons not hippogriphs the latter appears later in a region called Kalimdor.

And Its pronounced Medivh and he is soon to be a playable character in Heroes of the Storm:

 

Denamic

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I liked it. There were changes I'm not sure I really liked, but I can live with it. I mostly liked how they changed what went down with blackhand, not so much the Garona stuff. And there were a lot of really important characters, particularly in the orc horde, that got like a second of screentime, but no lines or real presence.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Bilious Green said:
Honestly not that surprise. I've been a Warcraft player since the original RTS in '93, and I've always felt that the story was the franchise's Achilles heel; its just generic by the numbers D&D guff, with little to make it stand out from any other stock fantasy setting. It was only ever Blizzards insane level of gameplay design and technical polish that made Warcraft a major franchise, with the story never being much more than window dressing to vaguely justify all the action. Divorced from the game elements that actually made it good, I'm not at all surprised to hear that the story falls on its face.

You say the story is generic D&D stuff as if D&D made anything better :p

So tell name one Fantasy D&D like Story that is done better than some of the best stories in Warcraft?

I meam Dragon Age was an amalgamtion of A Song of Ice and Fire and Lord of the Rings and it was awesome.
 

Marter

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Samtemdo8 said:
fisheries said:
Samtemdo8 said:
This is what happens when you hire an unknown director, unknown screenwriters, unknown producers, and unknown actors, and unknown composer whose only famous work is game of thrones but nothing else.

The movie's soundtrack is utterley forgettable and does not sound Warcraft-y enough, this sounds like Warcraft:

There's no reason that hiring names is better, it's about talent and suiting the roles. Casting just for how famous people are, stunt casting, is a failure on the part of the director and casting director. And the opinion of the reviewer to whom you're responding is that the actors aren't given room to shine, because they're busy spouting your precious lore.

Marter himself said in the review that Jones is a great film maker.

Unknown composer. Anyone who isn't Hans Zimmer or John Williams is going to be relatively unknown, the question is the strength of the compositions. I checked out the sound track, it's not nearly as bad as you're saying, and to say it's in a different genre or feel is just silly. The track he's best known for is very memorable, and well liked. It's perfectly competent composition too, from the perspective of composing.

As Marter saw it, the problem was that it was too much of an adaptation, and was overburdened with Warcraft Lore, they very stuff you drag into these threads
Well I did mention Screenwriters. And they clearly failed at giving material that makes the actors shine, something I hope the sequals (especially regarding certain characters) will rectify because this franchise does have CHARACRTERS that will not just spout lore exposition and charcacter that you will care about.
Yeah, but that is what the critics said. That the screenplay is slow, overburdened with lore, and many found it dull. Your main problem with the music in particular, seems to be that they didn't use the game music, and you've taken that as license to rubbish the composer. I'm guessing you know VERY LITTLE about music or composition. Considering it's what I've been training myself in for the last 2 years, it's rather galling to see such obnoxious comments.
And if you think the movie was already overburderned with lore you have not seen nothing yet how big this will get into the future.
That does not give me any reason to want to watch it.

If I wanted someone to explain to me tiresome backstory and never get to the action, I'd read the Silmarillion. They need to make the lore engaging.
Like for example Fel is the product of the Burning Legion, Demons born from the Twisting Nether, lead by a fallen Titan named Sargeras.
That means nothing to me. I'm guessing that the Burning Legion is where the first WoW expansion gets it's name, but I don't give a flying fuck about any of that.

You've made the same mistake that the film makers reportedly have. You think telling me about the backstory makes it interesting, when it makes me roll your eyes and think, this is too nerdy even for me.

It's like when kids try to explain the in depth details of videogames to their parents who don't play them. They don't know, and don't care, they have no context, you need to use broad strokes and explain why anyone should care. You have to understand the broader audience.

Why should I want to see Demons born from the Twisting Nether? What is a Titan in this universe? These are the things you have to depict in a way that's interesting to actually excite people. You just mentioning is the exact opposite of that.


The son of the King character and the son of Durotan the Orc (Named Varian Wrynn and Thrall respecitively) becomes main characrters later in the lore and both are even more interesting than King Llane and Durotan.
I don't give a fuck. The film would be a good entry point, but I'm not going to watch a film if I need to read up on the lore to actually enjoy it. I don't mind if it goes at a fast pace and expects me to attain fluency quickly, the first season of Game of Thrones was very much like that, it was much more rewarding on the second pass while I was reading the books, but it didn't sit me down to explain boring shit that I didn't care about, it had real characters who set off at a pace into a plot and intrigue.

Reportedly, this doesn't do that. It's light on the action, slow, the characters aren't likable, and most people seem to just be hoping for a sequel, rather than telling anyone why they should see this one.

And you yourself said the director sucks, the music sucks (It doesn't, but whatever), and the cast sucks, the screenplay sucks. WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I SEE THIS? Why would I do research for a film you have nothing good to say for, and why would I want it to have a sequel?

You've given everybody precisely no reasons to see it, only reasons not to. I hope you comprehend that.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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fisheries said:
Samtemdo8 said:
fisheries said:
Samtemdo8 said:
This is what happens when you hire an unknown director, unknown screenwriters, unknown producers, and unknown actors, and unknown composer whose only famous work is game of thrones but nothing else.

The movie's soundtrack is utterley forgettable and does not sound Warcraft-y enough, this sounds like Warcraft:

There's no reason that hiring names is better, it's about talent and suiting the roles. Casting just for how famous people are, stunt casting, is a failure on the part of the director and casting director. And the opinion of the reviewer to whom you're responding is that the actors aren't given room to shine, because they're busy spouting your precious lore.

Marter himself said in the review that Jones is a great film maker.

Unknown composer. Anyone who isn't Hans Zimmer or John Williams is going to be relatively unknown, the question is the strength of the compositions. I checked out the sound track, it's not nearly as bad as you're saying, and to say it's in a different genre or feel is just silly. The track he's best known for is very memorable, and well liked. It's perfectly competent composition too, from the perspective of composing.

As Marter saw it, the problem was that it was too much of an adaptation, and was overburdened with Warcraft Lore, they very stuff you drag into these threads
Well I did mention Screenwriters. And they clearly failed at giving material that makes the actors shine, something I hope the sequals (especially regarding certain characters) will rectify because this franchise does have CHARACRTERS that will not just spout lore exposition and charcacter that you will care about.
Yeah, but that is what the critics said. That the screenplay is slow, overburdened with lore, and many found it dull. Your main problem with the music in particular, seems to be that they didn't use the game music, and you've taken that as license to rubbish the composer. I'm guessing you know VERY LITTLE about music or composition. Considering it's what I've been training myself in for the last 2 years, it's rather galling to see such obnoxious comments.
And if you think the movie was already overburderned with lore you have not seen nothing yet how big this will get into the future.
That does not give me any reason to want to watch it.

If I wanted someone to explain to me tiresome backstory and never get to the action, I'd read the Silmarillion. They need to make the lore engaging.
Like for example Fel is the product of the Burning Legion, Demons born from the Twisting Nether, lead by a fallen Titan named Sargeras.
That means nothing to me. I'm guessing that the Burning Legion is where the first WoW expansion gets it's name, but I don't give a flying fuck about any of that.

You've made the same mistake that the film makers reportedly have. You think telling me about the backstory makes it interesting, when it makes me roll your eyes and think, this is too nerdy even for me.

It's like when kids try to explain the in depth details of videogames to their parents who don't play them. They don't know, and don't care, they have no context, you need to use broad strokes and explain why anyone should care. You have to understand the broader audience.

Why should I want to see Demons born from the Twisting Nether? What is a Titan in this universe? These are the things you have to depict in a way that's interesting to actually excite people. You just mentioning is the exact opposite of that.


The son of the King character and the son of Durotan the Orc (Named Varian Wrynn and Thrall respecitively) becomes main characrters later in the lore and both are even more interesting than King Llane and Durotan.
I don't give a fuck. The film would be a good entry point, but I'm not going to watch a film if I need to read up on the lore to actually enjoy it. I don't mind if it goes at a fast pace and expects me to attain fluency quickly, the first season of Game of Thrones was very much like that, it was much more rewarding on the second pass while I was reading the books, but it didn't sit me down to explain boring shit that I didn't care about, it had real characters who set off at a pace into a plot and intrigue.

Reportedly, this doesn't do that. It's light on the action, slow, the characters aren't likable, and most people seem to just be hoping for a sequel, rather than telling anyone why they should see this one.

And you yourself said the director sucks, the music sucks (It doesn't, but whatever), and the cast sucks, the screenplay sucks. WHY THE FUCK SHOULD I SEE THIS? Why would I do research for a film you have nothing good to say for, and why would I want it to have a sequel?

You've given everybody precisely no reasons to see it, only reasons not to. I hope you comprehend that.
Right now all of the post prior to my apolgy post was just my frustration venting since I was so upset that this movie is getting panned. And I recognize the criticisms of the movie. Too much world building yet no compelling chararcters to guide us.

And again in my frustration I was so convinced that this movie might bomb hard enough that no sequal will be greenlit. So no possibility for improvement to make a better movie. So I apoligize for the lore spoilers.