Warhammer 40k Imperial Guard vs Space Marines

[tmande2nd]

There is only around 1 million Space Marines (1000 Chapters of 1000 marines each , give or take), there are TRILLIONS of IG, with TANKS.

Sure one Marine can cut down scores of Guardsmen, but one Marine lost is DECADES of investment.
Same reason knights fell out of disuse, they were pricey and could not be easily replaced.

Play on the table top, and a good guard army will get beaten up, but they also can dish out some hurt. One lasgun is a joke, but THOUSANDS of them are not.
Especially when backed up by Baneblades.

So while probably uncounted BILLIONS of Guardsmen would die, the Marines cant replace their men fast enough, since a Guardsman takes a week to recruit basically.
Hell I did a challenge with my friend with one of the Guard commanders who can send in conscripts for free.

Takes a while, but eventually the marines will go down.

 

[Britisheagle]

Space Marines hands down. If it came to all out war, IG would run out of men eventually.

 

[Pharsalus]

The only problem with that it's basically like saying who would win the special forces or the rest of the army. While the scale of the universe means they are large forces, the Space Marines are never going to be as plentiful as the rest of the military.

Great point, but, if put into the context of the U.S. Armed Forces I think the elite units (Ranger, Delta, SEAL, SOG, etc.) would stand a good chance if they had their own logistical resources as the Space Marines do.
Sure they've got massive armies and fleets and tanks, none of which are invulnerable to the kind of surgical strike tactical missions that the Space Marines were literally made for. Yes the Imperial Guard has numbers, but the Marines have the skill and speed to outmaneuver them on an operational level.
The overwhelming numbers of the I.G. are daunting, but if the Space Marines just kept killing officers and destroying leaderless armies they could take the Imperium.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Space Marines win any specific engagement due to being a much more powerful fighting force. Imperial Guard win the war due to attrition and being better supplied.

The thread was over before it began.

So my buddy and I were debating who would win in a all out war. Who would win in a galactic war all the Imperial Guard or all of the Space Marines?

There are too many unknowns to give a proper answer.

1. Is this pre or post Heresy? This makes a difference.

And this guy brings up a good point.

Imperial Guard will wipe the floor with their superhuman compatriots for simply having co-ordination, loyalty and discipline without even bringing in the overwhelming manpower of the Guard.

Kind of leaving out the superior officers shooting their own men for "incompetence" aren'tcha? And isn't "accidental" friendly fire one of the leading causes of death among Comissars.

Space Marines aren't perfect I admit, but not every Guardsmen is gonna be following under a model commander like COMMISSAR CIAPHAS CAIN HEEEERO OF THE IMPERIUM!

Now....If the argument were "Space Marines vs Guardsmen that are lead by COMMISSAR CIAPHAS CAIN HEEEERO OF THE IMPERIUM!" The points about loyalty would definitely stand.

 

[Scorched_Cascade]

I believe this picture will explain the outcome quite nicely

As you can see, that is quite a lot of diddly

A more serious answer? Entirely depends on your fluff source. Some stories of pre-heresy marines (and a few current era ones) have tales of 2-3 marines subjegating an entire planet without support.

A more balanced review says that a single marine is worth at least 100 fighting men (not counting special weapons, longer battlefield experience by several magnitudes, better equipment, etc). The Imperium easily has enough Imperial Guards to outnumber every Space Marine 100:1...and then some.

Standard tactics of "If in doubt, throw more men at it" will have the Space Marines running out of ammo if nothing else. Not that they aren't deadly in melee, it'd jsut tip the balance further on the side of the force with tanks, artillery, planes and spaceships.

 

[T0BB0]

Imperial Guard will wipe the floor with their superhuman compatriots for simply having co-ordination, loyalty and discipline without even bringing in the overwhelming manpower of the Guard.

Kind of leaving out the superior officers shooting their own men for "incompetence" aren'tcha? And isn't "accidental" friendly fire one of the leading causes of death among Comissars.

Space Marines aren't perfect I admit, but not every Guardsmen is gonna be following under a model commander like COMISSAR CIAPHAS CAIN HEEEERO OF THE IMPERIUM!

Now....If the argument were "Space Marines vs Guardsmen that are lead by COMISSAR CIAPHAS CAIN HEEEERO OF THE IMPERIUM!" You'd have a perfectly valid argument.

If you kill everyone incompetent in your army, you'll be left with millions... Or well, at least hundreds of competent soldiers. It's flawless strategy at its finest!

Besides, the obvious choice of command for the Guard is General Sturnn from Winter Assault. One speech from him will dissolve any incompetence or talks of dissent in the ranks, all willing to lay down their lives for being blessed enough to hear that angelic, gravelly voice.

 

[Lil_Rimmy]

SNIP!

Hey!
You!
Yeah you!

Don't you motherf****** forget about Commissar Gaunt! Gaunt's Ghosts will kick the ass of Space Marines any day.

Providing there only be a few of them...

And that the Tanith have the advantage of suprise...

And that Gaunt can chainsaw their face off (or powersword their insides!)...

Yeah, fuck it, just send in all the soldiers.

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

The Imperial Guard has more Leman Russes than there are Space Marines in existence. Let's not even get into artillery, baneblades, and Titans. The IG would destroy the Marines.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Imperial Guard have no space ships.

Apart from the largest fleet in the Imperium.

Controlled by the Imperial Navy. Two separate entities, even though they often work together.

The IG is usually just what people say when they're referencing the entirety of the Imperium of Man, disregarding SM's.

That's how I've always seen it anyway.

If this guy is literally just talking about the droves of Guardsmen then this isn't really even a question worth asking.

You forgot about the SoBs that people don't usually consider under that umbrella.

OT: As good as the Marines are they don't have the numbers of the Guard. When an army has more enemies than you have stuff to kill it with you won't win. Although pre heresy the Guard would probably be rolfstomped.

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

2. Are there any other current enemy factions involved? Even just saying Chaos backed off would mean the Space Marines aren't bound by the limit of 1000 and could start making Legions again.

3. Are there any other current ally factions involved? As people mentioned, the Imperial Navy are the ones who ferry the Guard everywhere. They are not the same faction. Same goes for the Grey Knights & the Deathwatch (though not so much Deathwatch) for the Space Marines, both organizations running independently under different branches of the Imperial war machine. Then you get into the Legios and the Sisters of Battle and it becomes a huge mess of politics if others are involved. Heck, I'd even say the Mechanicus being involved is the biggest question, not because of the Legios of Titans, but because the IG have no knowledge on how to fix or produce any of their own machines!

This; this is the kind of war that can't happen in a vacuum. Both sides need the Imperium and it's other agencies to support their war effort; without knowing who is supporting which side, it's really hard to judge.

That said, wild speculation points to IG. The Space Marines are great warriors, but other than Ultramar they rarely have more than a single planet or system under their direct control. They will be swamped from every side, and I think that the commanders of the Guard would be satisfied just clogging the space around their planets with the remains of their troops just to prevent people from travelling on and off the world.

Also, there is no real focal point for the Marines to attack. They are great for speartips which destroy the command center of the enemy, but the decentralized nature of galactic war and the Guard itself (for all the pseudo-fascism, you have millions of commanders leading vast armies, each supplying itself from nearby systems; a couple of those coordinating are more than a match for a Space Marine chapter) means that they have no target, meaning they will get stuck in a war of attrition they will lose.

Hell I did a challenge with my friend with one of the Guard commanders who can send in conscripts for free.

Takes a while, but eventually the marines will go down.

Commander Chenkov can beat basically anyone, so long as you keep him protected. I love seating him in a Leman Russ and watching the enemy try and fight their way through his moat of conscripts, until they drown in a sea of olive drab.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I'm going to put this out there.

Vietnam showed what a Guerilla force can do for a military effort. As numerous as the Guard are, they will still need a place to fight. With some whole chapters being devoted to hit and run tactics, speed raids, and planetary invasion, that puts the tilt in the Space Marines favor.

For one reason that people are over looking: you need to fight the battle somewhere. And it will not be at a place where you can fit trillions of guards. Most likely because they are spread out of the sector as well. The Space Marines can mop up a planet, or seriously hurt the Guard there, pull back into the warp, and do it to another planet.

Against the full combined force of the Guard, the Marines do not have a chance. But with logistics and the universe being the way it is, the Marines will never see that many guards ever. But a chapter or two, canonically, can spell doom for planets.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Imperial Guard have no space ships.

Apart from the largest fleet in the Imperium.

Controlled by the Imperial Navy. Two separate entities, even though they often work together.

The IG is usually just what people say when they're referencing the entirety of the Imperium of Man, disregarding SM's.

That's how I've always seen it anyway.

If this guy is literally just talking about the droves of Guardsmen then this isn't really even a question worth asking.

You forgot about the SoBs that people don't usually consider under that umbrella.

I always just thought of them as female spess mahreens truth be told.

Well they essentially are(minus any augmentations) but do a vastly specialised and different job. While the Marines are just a general kill shit and the SoB can be this too they tend to be a lot more used against Chaos.

 

[Thunderous Cacophony]

Space Marines hands down. If it came to all out war, IG would run out of men eventually.

WHAT? [http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4lidhFLaD1rn95k2o1_400.gif]
The Space Marines can kill tons of the IG, for sure, but commanders can replenish themselves anywhere they are; just grab a local, shove a lasgun in their hand, line them up with a hundred other 'volunteers' and put a Commissar behind them. The Space Marines need very specific people to survive the process, let alone the specialized equipment to transform and outfit them-equipment that only exists in a handful of locations across the galaxy. And as kick-ass as they are on a tactical level, the Marines just don't have the numbers to both protect the facilities and take the fight to every other planet in the Imperium, even if they start 'mass-producing' ( between 4 to 8 years in ideal conditions) [http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine].

 

[Easton Dark]

My favorite faction, the Imperial Guard, will come out victorious. The space marines can't handle 7 barrels of hell!

 

[shintakie10]

Space Marines hands down. If it came to all out war, IG would run out of men eventually.

Chances are the Space Marines would run out of bullets long before the IG ran out of men.

 

[TheFinish]

The Imperial Guard + Imperial Navy, no questions asked. They could just steamroll them to death, since not only do they have an incredible numerical advantage (about a million to one, since the IG is generally described as "trillions" and the SM are around 1000 chapters of 1000 peeps, with a few exceptions), but they can also replace manpower losses at an incredible rate, the Space Marine can't.

Of course, this is assuming the Mechanicus stays neutral.

 

[Tiger Sora]

I'm sorry, could you cry for help louder I can't hear you over the sound of all these guns.

The Imperial Legion hands down. Nothing the mahreens haz could bring this thing down when it's surrounded by the tens if not hundreds of thousands of men and women. (Before the titan blasts them into the void).

 

[Nouw]

Imperial Guards because they have the cooler memes. [http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/20348346.jpg]

My favorite faction, the Imperial Guard, will come out victorious. The space marines can't handle 7 barrels of hell!

I believe it's 11 barrels of hell! [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMW7j47eSaE]

 

[Jay Knowles]

I think it all depends on a number of factors
are the space marines the ones to start the war? they could conceivably just start recruiting initiates wholesale, how long would it take the imperial guard to click that that's what the sm were doing?
do the sm coordinate together?
is it just the ig they're fighting? if they dont have the mechanicus or navy on their side I'd say theyre royally screwed, good luck making if off planet and good luck maintaining/getting new weapons and armour.

 

[Slycne]

Great point, but, if put into the context of the U.S. Armed Forces I think the elite units (Ranger, Delta, SEAL, SOG, etc.) would stand a good chance if they had their own logistical resources as the Space Marines do.

Getting slightly off topic, but...

Even setting logistic issues aside, not even a slim really chance. You're taking about multiple divisions of infantry with battalions of tanks, helicopters, planes, artillery, etc all up against maybe a few thousand commandos(the Ranger being one of the larger units are only a single regiment). While special forces are traditional pulled from the best of the best, they are not super-heroes and are often misunderstood to be super-soldiers. What actually truly sets them apart from the rank and file is their specialization. They train to absurd degrees at a narrow field of scenarios: be it unconventional warfare, hostage rescue, search & destroy, etc, but you don't call on the Green Beret to say siege a town.