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Zykon TheLich

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Yeah lets not and pretend we didn't. TTS did way more damage to the 40k community than it did good. I mean for fucks sake GW had to retire Cato Sicarius because of what TTS did to him.
Every time I'm at my local GW there's always a memelord wanting Captain General Kitten and muttonchops Dorn.
*shrug*

Don't worry, I'm sure it's not going to happen and I'll carry on ignoring 40k lore the same as I have the last 30 years.
 
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Zykon TheLich

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The same as GW has for the last 30 years.
Andy Chambers or Jervis Johnson or one of the old school GW guys (sadly my memory is rapidly deteriorating) once said in an interview that there was no 40K canon, all they were doing was trying to give you ideas so that you could make your own fun in the nightmare universe of the 41st millennium.

On topic, going to say I actually do like the Lion El Johnson model. Dark angels being my second chapter after crimson fists, I 'm actually half tempted to buy that. That's the first time I can say that about a new 40k model for several years.
 
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Thaluikhain

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Yeah, the new lion looks cool, in a tough old guy way.

And also, yeah, it's official that 40k fluff is...malleable. Which sorta works if you like Orwellian dystopia, actually.
 

Zykon TheLich

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Yeah, the new lion looks cool, in a tough old guy way.

And also, yeah, it's official that 40k fluff is...malleable. Which sorta works if you like Orwellian dystopia, actually.
Honestly, after having read the inquisition war series and the old inquisition fluff book it made me realise that you should treat every piece of information in 40k as suspect.
 

Masonicon

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Yeah lets not and pretend we didn't. TTS did way more damage to the 40k community than it did good. I mean for fucks sake GW had to retire Cato Sicarius because of what TTS did to him.
Every time I'm at my local GW there's always a memelord wanting Captain General Kitten and muttonchops Dorn.
Some TTS aspects are too stupid for even me, even when TTS are just one of 40k canon that I did weld with other 40k canons
 
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Bob_McMillan

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I read The Lion: Son of the Forest the other day. Basically, I think it pretty clearly eliminates the theory of an Imperium civil war between the two living primarchs.

I can go into specifics if anyone cares, but the Lion is an incredibly different person now. He might be even more of a bleeding heart, goody two shoes than Robby G. Throughout the book he links up with members of the Fallen he has judged to be redeemable. That did take me out of the book a little, the ease with which the Lion encounters the Fallen makes the contemporary Dark Angels look even more stupid.

All in all it was a fun little read, that doesn't really give us much in the way of lore. The Lion's return is a much smaller deal than Guilliman's. I guess we shall see what changes will occur when the two actually link up.
 

SilentPony

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I read The Lion: Son of the Forest the other day. Basically, I think it pretty clearly eliminates the theory of an Imperium civil war between the two living primarchs.

I can go into specifics if anyone cares, but the Lion is an incredibly different person now. He might be even more of a bleeding heart, goody two shoes than Robby G. Throughout the book he links up with members of the Fallen he has judged to be redeemable. That did take me out of the book a little, the ease with which the Lion encounters the Fallen makes the contemporary Dark Angels look even more stupid.

All in all it was a fun little read, that doesn't really give us much in the way of lore. The Lion's return is a much smaller deal than Guilliman's. I guess we shall see what changes will occur when the two actually link up.
I really enjoyed how they portrayed the Lion. He fully admits he was an arrogant fuck-up during the Heresy wars, totally admits he made a mistake in exiling almost 30,000 Marines to Caliban, and takes full responsibility for rescuing the Fallen. Like the dude has matured, and its so nice to see.
I can't wait for whatever book has his meeting with Guilliman. Its going to be very sweet seeing these two brothers just hug it out and be like "Holy fuck, we have a lot of work to do!"
 

Bob_McMillan

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I really enjoyed how they portrayed the Lion. He fully admits he was an arrogant fuck-up during the Heresy wars, totally admits he made a mistake in exiling almost 30,000 Marines to Caliban, and takes full responsibility for rescuing the Fallen. Like the dude has matured, and its so nice to see.
I can't wait for whatever book has his meeting with Guilliman. Its going to be very sweet seeing these two brothers just hug it out and be like "Holy fuck, we have a lot of work to do!"
I like the new Lion as well, although I thought his change of heart probably should have taken a much longer time to develop. The way the book portrays it is like the absolute first thing he does after waking up is forgiving those he was brutally slaughtering just hours or even minutes before his slumber. Could have probably used some grimdark, like the Lion coming to consciousness centuries before he could move his body, leaving him to endlessly debate his actions before coming the conclusion that he was wrong.

I did like how he felt impostor syndrome. Surprise surprise, the gene father of the most arrogant and prideful legion has inadequacy issues.
 
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wings012

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That did take me out of the book a little, the ease with which the Lion encounters the Fallen makes the contemporary Dark Angels look even more stupid.
I always thought the Fallen thing was incredibly stupid. Considering how many chapters have gone traitor since the Horus Heresy(also Chaos forces stealing loyalist geneseed cause they lack sufficient of their own + mutations in the Eye of Terror), there's probably more traitors of Ultramarines descent running around than some lineages of traitor legions. Yet the Dark Angels feel that they have to escalate how dramatic they are about it over the course of 10 millennia.

Maybe the Lion returning can finally put all that insanity to rest. At this point it isn't so much the existence of the Fallen that's going to be the problem, but all the insane shit and friendly killing stuff the Dark Angels had done to keep it under wraps that's going to raise more eyebrows.
 

Bob_McMillan

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I always thought the Fallen thing was incredibly stupid. Considering how many chapters have gone traitor since the Horus Heresy(also Chaos forces stealing loyalist geneseed cause they lack sufficient of their own + mutations in the Eye of Terror), there's probably more traitors of Ultramarines descent running around than some lineages of traitor legions. Yet the Dark Angels feel that they have to escalate how dramatic they are about it over the course of 10 millennia.

Maybe the Lion returning can finally put all that insanity to rest. At this point it isn't so much the existence of the Fallen that's going to be the problem, but all the insane shit and friendly killing stuff the Dark Angels had done to keep it under wraps that's going to raise more eyebrows.
It is indeed incredibly stupid. And not the fun Warhammer 40K stupid, just regular stupid. I do think returning the Lion is a purposeful step by GW to make the Dark Angels less of a joke. And it does mesh well with the recent developments regarding Imperium Secundus.
 

SilentPony

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It is indeed incredibly stupid. And not the fun Warhammer 40K stupid, just regular stupid. I do think returning the Lion is a purposeful step by GW to make the Dark Angels less of a joke. And it does mesh well with the recent developments regarding Imperium Secundus.
I think in part its the Dark Angels purposeful stupidity. Like with how the Imperium does propoganda, you could be forgiven for not knowing that 10,000 years ago some isolated companies of Ultramarines or Space Wolves turned traitor.
And so the Dark Angels are left thinking maybe they were the only loyalist legion that had traitor elements, and almost a full 1/5th of the Legion at that.
They absolutely 100000000% over reacted and the Lion is going to be furious when he learns they abandoned entire campaigns to failure to hunt the barest hint of a whisper of a myth of a thought of a Fallen.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I'm just waiting for it to actually turn out that the founder of all Space Marine chapters is Serious Sam and he travels back to the future and decides to go on an imperial ass kicking tour since they all became xenophobic dicks in his absence.
 

Thaluikhain

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Actually, the stuff about the Dark Angels and the Fallen, IMHO, makes perfect sense, and makes them more believable. Any number of organisations with try to cover up the wrongdoings of their members, even it if means committing more crimes themselves. Even if it would be better than to fess up, or at least disown the person for their crimes, it doesn't often happen.

At some point some high ranking DAs made the decision to do that, and that crossed a line, and they have to keep crossing it to keep that quiet.

Though, that all the successor chapters are at least ok with this strikes me as odd.
 

Bob_McMillan

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Actually, the stuff about the Dark Angels and the Fallen, IMHO, makes perfect sense, and makes them more believable. Any number of organisations with try to cover up the wrongdoings of their members, even it if means committing more crimes themselves. Even if it would be better than to fess up, or at least disown the person for their crimes, it doesn't often happen.

At some point some high ranking DAs made the decision to do that, and that crossed a line, and they have to keep crossing it to keep that quiet.

Though, that all the successor chapters are at least ok with this strikes me as odd.
That's not really what bothers me about them. Their superhuman pride easily explains how they act. I still find them silly, but hey it's 40K. It's more of that these numbskulls have SOMEHOW kept their dirty business secret for 10,000 years even when tens of thousands of the Fallen have popped back into the galaxy since Caliban. You seriously want me to believe that not one of these many thousands of Fallen decided to tattletale on the DA to the Inquisition? What about modern DA and successor traitors?
 

Thaluikhain

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That's not really what bothers me about them. Their superhuman pride easily explains how they act. I still find them silly, but hey it's 40K. It's more of that these numbskulls have SOMEHOW kept their dirty business secret for 10,000 years even when tens of thousands of the Fallen have popped back into the galaxy since Caliban. You seriously want me to believe that not one of these many thousands of Fallen decided to tattletale on the DA to the Inquisition? What about modern DA and successor traitors?
Well, modern traitors wouldn't be such a problem because most DA et al don't know what's going on. But yeah, keeping that secret for umpteen thousand years is a bit much.