Warner Bros. is Looking to Bring Back The Matrix - Updated

Marter

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Warner Bros. is Looking to Bring Back The Matrix - Updated



Just how far down the rabbit hole will we go this time?

The groundbreaking philosophical sci-fi action movie franchise is looking to make a return to the cinemas, according to Warner Bros. [http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/matrix-reboot-works-at-warner-bros-986292], the studio behind the Matrix trilogy, is looking to relaunch its iconic franchise.

Jupiter Ascending [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/tag/view/zak+penn][/I], was a financial failure, earning $184 million worldwide on a budget of $176 million.

Keanu Reeves [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/tag/view/keanu+reeves] has, in the past, claimed that he would be open to doing further Matrix movies - but only if the Wachowskis continued to write and direct. If they're not involved, the best fans could hope for would be a cameo from the star.

The Matrix Revolutions [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Matrix], both of which made a lot of money but were not received as well by the audience.

As far as I'm concerned, The Matrix still holds up pretty well and this potential reboot is unnecessary - if they're just going to do The Matrix again. On the other hand, if it takes a different direction - telling different types of stories and using the Matrix as a backdrop, even within the original films' continuity - then it could be a very lucrative decision, both financially and artistically. I just hope they call it "The Matrix Rebooted."

What are your thoughts?

Source: The Hollywood Reporter [http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/matrix-reboot-works-at-warner-bros-986292]

[gallery=7051]

Update: Zak Penn took to Twitter to say that he, too, doesn't want to reboot or remake The Matrix at this time. Given that he's supposedly writing the treatment, that gives us some indication as to where the franchise is heading.

<tweet t=https://twitter.com/zakpenn/status/842029880472616960>
<tweet t=https://twitter.com/zakpenn/status/842607579012382720>
<tweet t=https://twitter.com/zakpenn/status/842608247232069634>
<tweet t=https://twitter.com/zakpenn/status/842611801606959105>
<tweet t=https://twitter.com/zakpenn/status/842612174539317249>

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Igor-Rowan

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I fear who they might cast as Neo and Trinity, the fun thing about their character is that they were as lively as the machines they were fighting agaisnt, and that sort of tongue in cheek brilliance made The Matrix the success it is.
 

Marter

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Silentpony said:
If they cast Melissa McCarthy as a lady Neo...
I think that's what we all need.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C67UO6gV0AE7keC.jpg
 

Marter

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Igor-Rowan said:
I fear who they might cast as Neo and Trinity, the fun thing about their character is that they were as lively as the machines they were fighting agaisnt, and that sort of tongue in cheek brilliance made The Matrix the success it is.
Why does everybody think it will be a remake whenever this question comes up? There are a lot of possibilities for sequels and side stories. Maybe even a prequel about the first One, who woke up and began freeing the slaves.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Matrix is one of WB best grossing franchises. Makes you wonder why they are looking to do more considering the power house their DC movies are.
 

Hawki

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The Matrix Rebooted?

The Matrix Relaunched?

The Matrix Revisited?

The Matrix Recollections?

Stuff that begins with "R" aside, I'm kind of "meh" about this. I think there's lots of stories that you can tell within the Matrix universe (as stuff like the Animatrix and comics proved), but I figure this is going to be either a reboot, or a continuation of the trilogy that isn't needed, and something that was already done in The Matrix Online.

Oh, and apparently being "red pilled" is now a meme for having 'woken up' from media control or something, so there is that. 0_0
 
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I just hope they call it "The Matrix Rebooted."
The Matrix: We Turned It Off Then On Again

Honestly I didn't think it was that great a film series the first time around (I'm a complete weirdo who thinks the second one is actually the best), though it obviously made that dollar y'all so I can se why they want it back
 

Saelune

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Ezekiel said:
Igor-Rowan said:
I fear who they might cast as Neo and Trinity, the fun thing about their character is that they were as lively as the machines they were fighting agaisnt, and that sort of tongue in cheek brilliance made The Matrix the success it is.
Why does everybody think it will be a remake whenever this question comes up? There are a lot of possibilities for sequels and side stories. Maybe even a prequel about the first One, who woke up and began freeing the slaves.
Because remakes are hot stuff. Though I would prefer they just revive rather than reboot.
 

Saulkar

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There is potential for exploring more of the universe so I am hesitantly optimistic. On the other hand we might have to contend with more bullshit like human batteries. How much of an out of touch executive do you have to be to think that parallel processing is beyond the layman?!
 

Diablo2000

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Hawki said:
The Matrix Rebooted?

The Matrix Relaunched?
Those are so stupidly brilant that I wouldn't be surprise if it was the actual title.

Either way, meh. I really like the first movie and only a few handful of Animatrix. I not feeling all that excited for a remake\reboot\soft reboot.
 

Arnoxthe1

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Cool. How about making a sandbox Matrix game with destruction? It almost literally writes itself at that point for fucks sake.
 

LysanderNemoinis

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I'm not entirely opposed to more Matrix, especially given that the Wachowski brothers aren't involved. Ever since they went off the deep end, their writing ability disappeared. A reboot is unnecessary but at least the trilogy concluded, so it's not like the reboot is replacing an unfinished story.
 

Kyrian007

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This makes a very funny kind of sense. Lord of the Rings is over, the Nolan Batmans are over, the main series Harry Potter is over, and with the exception of Lego the rest of their "tentpole" franchises are realllllyyyy awful and easily not long for this world. Its pretty simple, they need a win. They need something to support themselves. Their gas tank is running empty.

They make money, but they don't make the huge success money that Nolan Batman, LotR, and Potter made their shareholders accustomed to. Meanwhile Disney is just killing it. Destroying WB in income and critical acclaim. WB is desperate to find something... anything that can give them the kind of success they once had. I guarantee The Matrix is not where they will stop trying to find something that works. They've given WB TV a shot at reviving Lethal Weapon. I guarantee we'll see an attempt to reboot Gremlins at some point soon. Hell, probably Police Academy too.
 

Hawki

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Kyrian007 said:
This makes a very funny kind of sense. Lord of the Rings is over, the Nolan Batmans are over, the main series Harry Potter is over, and with the exception of Lego the rest of their "tentpole" franchises are realllllyyyy awful and easily not long for this world. Its pretty simple, they need a win. They need something to support themselves. Their gas tank is running empty.

They make money, but they don't make the huge success money that Nolan Batman, LotR, and Potter made their shareholders accustomed to. Meanwhile Disney is just killing it. Destroying WB in income and critical acclaim. WB is desperate to find something... anything that can give them the kind of success they once had. I guarantee The Matrix is not where they will stop trying to find something that works. They've given WB TV a shot at reviving Lethal Weapon. I guarantee we'll see an attempt to reboot Gremlins at some point soon. Hell, probably Police Academy too.
Wait, what?

I mean, yeah, Lord of the Rings is over, so is Nolan Batman, but that's about it. Harry Potter still has life with Fantastic Beasts, and personal thoughts aside, that grossed 811 million, and got decent critical acclaim, with four sequels in the pipeline. As much as the DCEU has been maligned critically, every installment so far has brought home the cash. I'd say that as long as that happens, the DCEU might be to WB what Transformers is to Paramount - maligned critically, loved commercially.

I'll be honest, I don't really think of film franchises in the context of what studio is involved with them (usually), but based on those listed franchises, I don't see any empty gas tanks, unless there's something that I don't know. The idea of the Matrix being rebooted doesn't strike me as desparation, it more strikes me as a fact that successful films will inevitably be rebooted somewhere down the line.
 

Darth Rosenberg

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Pallindromemordnillap said:
Honestly I didn't think it was that great a film series the first time around (I'm a complete weirdo who thinks the second one is actually the best), though it obviously made that dollar y'all so I can se why they want it back
I do, generally speaking, think the first's the best in terms of at least having the most focus, but I personally reject the 'the sequels were shite' assessment, and see all three as necessary parts to tell Neo's and Smith's stories. To me it's like some sprawling three act narrative, and the original would feel so lackluster, simplistic, and anticlimactic on its lonesome.

As for more Matrix? Eh, I don't like the idea. It was of its time for a number of reasons, and I feel the story and themes the Wachowski's explored in that world were done and dusted. Nothing's gained by going over the same ideas again, 'cept with different - not-iconic - characters.

LysanderNemoinis said:
I'm not entirely opposed to more Matrix, especially given that the Wachowski brothers aren't involved.
C'mon, whilst you're technically correct, you really should at least just say 'siblings'.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Man, I can't wait for a rehash made without the involvement of the creators to completely miss the point of the original.
 

Kyrian007

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Hawki said:
Kyrian007 said:
This makes a very funny kind of sense. Lord of the Rings is over, the Nolan Batmans are over, the main series Harry Potter is over, and with the exception of Lego the rest of their "tentpole" franchises are realllllyyyy awful and easily not long for this world. Its pretty simple, they need a win. They need something to support themselves. Their gas tank is running empty.

They make money, but they don't make the huge success money that Nolan Batman, LotR, and Potter made their shareholders accustomed to. Meanwhile Disney is just killing it. Destroying WB in income and critical acclaim. WB is desperate to find something... anything that can give them the kind of success they once had. I guarantee The Matrix is not where they will stop trying to find something that works. They've given WB TV a shot at reviving Lethal Weapon. I guarantee we'll see an attempt to reboot Gremlins at some point soon. Hell, probably Police Academy too.
Wait, what?

I mean, yeah, Lord of the Rings is over, so is Nolan Batman, but that's about it. Harry Potter still has life with Fantastic Beasts, and personal thoughts aside, that grossed 811 million, and got decent critical acclaim, with four sequels in the pipeline. As much as the DCEU has been maligned critically, every installment so far has brought home the cash. I'd say that as long as that happens, the DCEU might be to WB what Transformers is to Paramount - maligned critically, loved commercially.

I'll be honest, I don't really think of film franchises in the context of what studio is involved with them (usually), but based on those listed franchises, I don't see any empty gas tanks, unless there's something that I don't know. The idea of the Matrix being rebooted doesn't strike me as desparation, it more strikes me as a fact that successful films will inevitably be rebooted somewhere down the line.
You may be right with Fantastic Beasts... but I'm not convinced that it has 4 movies that can deliver in it. Even saying that makes me remember that after Ace Ventura 2 they released another Ace Ventura movie... and what that turned out like. There's only so far you can squeeze a franchise. I just see HP as at that threshold. Maybe it does have another 4 or 5 movies though. But the DCEU... they've made some money. But they are very expensive to make as well. Those bad critical performances, that's gotta be a terrifying prospect to try and make a financial foundation on. No sweat if you have other, tried and true moneymakers going. And Lego might be enough (for now) to cover a potential huge money loss. But it won't be forever. And with DC... WB needs that to be a tentpole foundation, not a potential risk. They remember Jonah Hex, they remember Green Lantern.
 

Bindal

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Saelune said:
Ezekiel said:
Igor-Rowan said:
I fear who they might cast as Neo and Trinity, the fun thing about their character is that they were as lively as the machines they were fighting agaisnt, and that sort of tongue in cheek brilliance made The Matrix the success it is.
Why does everybody think it will be a remake whenever this question comes up? There are a lot of possibilities for sequels and side stories. Maybe even a prequel about the first One, who woke up and began freeing the slaves.
Because remakes are hot stuff. Though I would prefer they just revive rather than reboot.
What's stopping them from doing both? If I am not mistaken, it was stated outright that the matrix was literally rebooted several times before - they could reboot the franchise by just showing one of those, maybe even the very first itteration of it.
Or do something like Animatrix or Flight of Osiris, show sidestories.
 

Squilookle

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Marter said:
Keanu Reeves [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/tag/view/keanu+reeves] has, in the past, claimed that he would be open to doing further Matrix movies - but only if the Wachowskis continued to write and direct. If they're not involved, the best fans could hope for would be a cameo from the star.
How do you figure that, if he literally said himself that his involvement depends on the Wachowskis being in charge?

Anyway for me, the Matrix was never the kung-fu. It was the guns. Lots of guns. The lobby is still the best scene in the series, and the moment Neo learns to stop bullets, that's where you end the story. Y'know- just like the first movie did.
 

Igor-Rowan

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Ezekiel said:
Because that would require for the person writing to have a deeper understanding of the lore and make a cohesive story around that, one that doesn't contradict the rules of the original and estabilish characters within that environment, a remake involves them just using a script they already know it's good, only under a different vision. And the clash of that vision with the old movie is why remakes made people wary.

They COULD do a Mad Max: Fury Road and set the action up to eleven, but Reloaded had the best action scenes and in Revolutions the stakes couldn't get higher than that, the person who gets the job of writing anything Matrix without rebooting the one we already have has already cornered him/herself.
 

Czann

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They could try making Matrix 2 and 3 again. Maybe this time it will work.
 

Makabriel

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LysanderNemoinis said:
I'm not entirely opposed to more Matrix, especially given that the Wachowski brothers aren't involved. Ever since they went off the deep end, their writing ability disappeared.
Wachowski brothers? Who are they?

Don't you mean the Wachowski sisters?
 

Jacked Assassin

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I think The Matrix is overrated. Looking back I have a hard time believing it's rated R. Aside from its own sequels (which I decided not to watch) it had a lot of other movies that looked like clones. I now feel even worse for seeing Underworld: Blood Wars after reading this news.

I think me watching another sequel, reboot, or clone might as well be that torture scene from A Clockwork Orange.
 

Ugicywapih

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Eh... I feel like the franchise told as much of the story as it had to tell, and then kept going for a while after that still. I certainly agree it doesn't need a reboot either.

This gives new meaning to the term "zombie movie".
 

BrawlMan

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Hawki said:
The Matrix Rebooted?

The Matrix Relaunched?

The Matrix Revisited?

The Matrix Recollections?

Stuff that begins with "R" aside, I'm kind of "meh" about this. I think there's lots of stories that you can tell within the Matrix universe (as stuff like the Animatrix and comics proved), but I figure this is going to be either a reboot, or a continuation of the trilogy that isn't needed, and something that was already done in The Matrix Online.

Oh, and apparently being "red pilled" is now a meme for having 'woken up' from media control or something, so there is that. 0_0
Those are some funny names. As far as I am concerned, there are only two Matrix movies: the original and Animatrix. So WB can fuck off on either doing an unnecessary reboot or doing another sequel. Besides, everything the Matrix did is old hat. What else can they bring to the table if the Wachowskis are not involved?
 

RJ 17

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Ehhhhh...while I'm personally not all that interested, I wouldn't call foul on this one like I've done for a lot of these remakes/reboots/etc. So long as they tell new stories within the Matrix (which is little more than a universe to set stories within) then I see no harm in it.

If they just want to tell the exact same story with a new writer, then fuck that shit. :p

Darth Rosenberg said:
Pallindromemordnillap said:
Honestly I didn't think it was that great a film series the first time around (I'm a complete weirdo who thinks the second one is actually the best), though it obviously made that dollar y'all so I can se why they want it back
I do, generally speaking, think the first's the best in terms of at least having the most focus, but I personally reject the 'the sequels were shite' assessment, and see all three as necessary parts to tell Neo's and Smith's stories. To me it's like some sprawling three act narrative, and the original would feel so lackluster, simplistic, and anticlimactic on its lonesome.
While I don't count myself as part of the population that considers the 2nd and 3rd movies to be trainwrecks that completely ruined all the good things the 1st movie setup, I'm also not going to sugarcoat it and say that they were good movies.

The 2nd movie is basically just filler, which isn't even necessarily a bad thing if they had worked with all the things they had setup and established in it. As it is, the entire movie is basically just Chekhov's Gun. "Any time you here a story about vampires or werewolves or other kinds of monsters, it's really just a program that's gone rogue."

Alright...so where's all the vampires and werewolves? They gave us the ghost twins, but so what? They should have gone full-ham with it and had Neo fighting actual monsters! :D

Then there was all the pseudo-philosophical bullshit in the TV room, but I won't bother getting into that because it's all a buncha bullshit. As for the 3rd movie, it was a DBZ fight and a "Yes, Neo truly is Jesus. Just look at his Jesus pose!" shot.

While I'll agree that the first movie needed more and that the two movies to follow it weren't complete dumpster fires, I still say that they could have been much better.

LysanderNemoinis said:
I'm not entirely opposed to more Matrix, especially given that the Wachowski brothers aren't involved.
C'mon, whilst you're technically correct, you really should at least just say 'siblings'.
I just get the sneaking suspicion that Nemoinis really doesn't care. :p
 

Kahani

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altnameJag said:
Man, I can't wait for a rehash made without the involvement of the creators to completely miss the point of the original.
Eh, there are plenty of rehashes that do have the involvement of the creators, but still manage to completely miss the point of the original. Hell, the second two Matrix films are arguably examples of exactly that. If anything, getting a fresh perspective from someone who wasn't involved with the original is exactly what a reboot needs, especially when the creator/s have had rather less success recently as in this case.
 

COMaestro

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The Matrix does not need a reboot. Other stories focusing on other characters in the same universe could be entertaining though.
 

Poetic Nova

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I'll stick to the original triology. They never needed a reboot or a continuation. The Animatrix already gave more backstory to the triology, and is actually good. So what they're planning now is pretty redundant.

LysanderNemoinis said:
Wachowski brothers
Sisters. Not that hard.
 

Thaluikhain

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Eh, the first had some special effects that everyone ripped off afterwards, the second and third had Hugo Weaving.

The actual story and philosophy and all was dreadful. To be as successful the same way, you either need great special effects that people will rip off, or the right actor playing the villain. Can't guarantee either. Leave it alone.
 

KingWein22

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I am not all that thrilled about a "reboot" or "retcon" or whatnot. The movies and anime were very good of telling the story of The Matrix. And I can already hear the diehards raging about no Keanu involved since the Bros are not involved. If anything, I would be for a kind of prequel(s) of what happened the first time, explained during the scene between Neo and The Architect. Even if the opening scene was that and then bounces back to when it all happened. The machines taking over and everything.

Again, I am not for a "reboot" or "retcon" or whatnot, but some prequel(s) I would hop on board a bit.
 

Marter

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Squilookle said:
How do you figure that, if he literally said himself that his involvement depends on the Wachowskis being in charge?
Because coercing someone into a cameo is a lot easier of a process than convincing them to star.
 
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Oh right, because the followups of the original movie were sooo good...

Whatever, i'm hope that Keanu, now that he hit the jackpot with John Wick, won't be coming back to this.

Hawki said:
The Matrix Rebooted?

The Matrix Relaunched?

The Matrix Revisited?

The Matrix Recollections?
The Matrix Remade
The Matrix Restarted
The Matrix RedPilled(this one would guarantee a viral marketing success)
 

Pyrian

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Ezekiel said:
Why does everybody think it will be a remake whenever this question comes up?
Seen any movies in the past ten years? Lol, I exaggerate, of course, but... Let's just say there's been an awful lot of remakes recently.

Personally, I think there was only ever room for one Matrix movie. I wouldn't mind being wrong about that, but it already spent its big ideas, so what's left but sillier and sillier action scenes and maybe some mumbo jumbo?
 

LysanderNemoinis

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Poetic Nova said:
I'll stick to the original triology. They never needed a reboot or a continuation. The Animatrix already gave more backstory to the triology, and is actually good. So what they're planning now is pretty redundant.

LysanderNemoinis said:
Wachowski brothers
Sisters. Not that hard.
No, brothers. Genetics aren't hard either. Quite straightforward, actually.
 

LysanderNemoinis

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LysanderNemoinis said:
Poetic Nova said:
I'll stick to the original triology. They never needed a reboot or a continuation. The Animatrix already gave more backstory to the triology, and is actually good. So what they're planning now is pretty redundant.

LysanderNemoinis said:
Wachowski brothers
Sisters. Not that hard.
No, brothers. Genetics aren't hard either. Quite straightforward, actually.
Ah, so you're not misinformed. You're just a dick. Gotcha
How am I being a dick? If the sky is blue and you believe the sky is orange, how am I being an asshole for pointing out a fact? Anyone can hold whatever thoughts and feelings they want, but those things cannot change scientific facts. If they were able to change themselves genetically and internally, then I would believe them. Similarly, Shaun King and Rachel Dolezal can claim to be black all they want, but it doesn't change the fact they're white, no matter how many times they get fake tans. I'm sorry if you probably don't believe the Earth is round or that the planet is heating up, but those are facts too. And by the way, nice how quickly you went for a personal attack. Stay classy.
 

Felstaff

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The Matrix Revelations
The Matrix Renaissance
The Matrix Revival
The Matrix [Repost]
The Fantabulous Contraption of Professor A.I. Overlord

I mean, it's the reboot that fans have been begging for since... well, since before even the first Matrix movie came out, over 200 years ago.
 

jklinders

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Worst thing the Wachowskis did was make a franchise out the first film. The first film was as close to perfect as a sci fi action thriller gets. Had a nice ending where the resolution one way or another could be left open to interpretation. then they ruined it with boring as fuck tedious sequels.

A reboot is not going to make that any better. I prefer to pretend there were never any sequels. I'll also pretend there was no reboot.
 

Mortuorum

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Hawki said:
The Matrix Rebooted?

The Matrix Relaunched?

The Matrix Revisited?

The Matrix Recollections?
The Matrix Regurgitated.

As far as I'm concerned, The Matrix still holds up pretty well and this potential reboot is unnecessary [....] What are your thoughts?
Thank you for asking, Marter! I think The Matrix (the original) holds up pretty well. The sequels were terrible when they were released and have aged badly. I agree that a reboot isn't necessary, but a retcon is. Let's collectively agree that Reloaded and Revolutions never happened and see what we can make from that.
 

RJ 17

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Pallindromemordnillap said:
but those screens in the background show versions of Neo reacting -in different ways- to how the real one is. Are they predictions the machine is making on how Neo will react? Are they past recordings of Neo because he himself is a construct of the Matrix and not a real person (also explaining why he might be able to control Sentinels in the third one)?
Well it can't be the latter, considering that the old man says this is only the 6th iteration of the Matrix, and there's obviously more than 6 tvs in that room. Seeing as how a big part of Old Man Exposition's speech is about how predictable humans are, those screens are showing all the possible reactions Neo could have to being told what he's been told.

I don't even mind that everything the Architect says is bullshit, because of course everything the avatar of a programme thats part of a hyper-advanced computer system says is going to sound nonsensical to us because we don't have the vocabulary to understand anything its saying.
Make up any excuse you like, but in the end it's still an excuse. It just enables some guy to babble on with a bunch of stuff to sound deep and philosophical when all he's really doing is spouting bullshit. It's the same as a fool using big words without knowing their actual meaning in an attempt to sound like an intellectual. When called out on it, they just say "Well clearly you're just too simple to understand the complexity of what I'm talking about."

The Architect might as well have been a hippy that was stoned out of his mind while trying to explain the nature of existence to Neo. :^)

Quite simply: if your movie is meant to have a message - or at least promote meaningful thought in the audience - then it helps if your audience can understand what the hell's being talked about so they can apply their perspective to it, thus enabling them to actually think about/consider what's being said. If you just fill their head with a bunch of philosophical white-noise then there's absolutely no point to it. It becomes nothing but filler.
 

Callate

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I really liked the original Matrix. The stunts, camerawork, and effects were well done; revolutionary for their time, inspiring countless knock-offs. And for better or worse, the "black sunglasses, leather, vinyl, and latex" thing had a significant impact on both real-world fashion and action movie visual aesthetics of the decade.

But what still really stands out for me, more than anything else, is the scene in which a pre-redpill Neo is advised by Morpheus to escape capture by edging his way along the outside of his office building, many stories up...

...And he can't do it. He allows himself to be captured, because the threat of real-world authorities bringing him in for questioning is less terrifying than facing death from falling.

And that's a perfectly reasonable reaction. And I don't know that I've ever seen anything comparable in any other action movie. You see lots of supposedly "Average Joe/Jill" types facing down danger to prove themselves in a moment of crisis. You see tons of shallow characters going out of their way to act unreasonably to keep the plot marching on, to provide irritating artificial tension, or because they've been set up as "that guy [usually in authority] who is always wrong". How many "people do stupidly 'brave' things to put themselves in peril and then freeze up when that peril (*gasp*) actually shows up" can you count in the Jurassic Park movies alone?!

So, yeah. Real soft spot in my heart for the original Matrix.

And then they had to go and make it a trilogy. And do a spinoff series of animation shorts. And at least three video games. All in service of this world that... Just... doesn't really make any sense, if you actually bother to look at it for about five minutes. These movies contain more "fridge logic" than a philosophy class held in a meat locker, and unlike some action movies that keep things moving fast enough that you blow past an unlikelihood or two and forgive it, it really wants to hold your face to the ridiculousness of parts of its premise, to make sure you appreciate its "world-building", to make the point that it isn't really about gunfights or special effects or choreography: it's about destructive cycles, about how machines and people aren't really that different, about mutual exploitation and mythological themes.

...And good God, you should never go as far up your own rear end as The Matrix Trilogy does without a team of colo-rectal surgeons.

So to (eventually, in my typically long-winded way) make a long story short: Yes! I'm sure Warner Bros. WOULD like to make several hundred million dollars on a movie franchise again! Especially given how.... "mixed"... the reactions have been to their DC superhero entries!

But given that the architects of this particular cash-cow managed to totally screw it up, I have absolutely no reason to believe a reboot won't be even worse.
 

Darth Rosenberg

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RJ 17 said:
Then there was all the pseudo-philosophical bullshit in the TV room, but I won't bother getting into that because it's all a buncha bullshit. As for the 3rd movie, it was a DBZ fight and a "Yes, Neo truly is Jesus. Just look at his Jesus pose!" shot.
"Pseudo-philosophical bullshit"? Y'mean a modicum of depth and actual ideas being explored?

The trilogy was never exactly uber highbrow, but as another forum member alludes to, the original film was ostensibly just an introduction to the world and concepts. Only in two and three do things start to get interesting and thought provoking. For me The Matrix only sets up the more interesting arcs and ideas (I always find the end of the first film incredibly unsatisfying and kindof annoying, frankly - it's a half-arsed resolution, and incredibly smug... ).

I just get the sneaking suspicion that Nemoinis really doesn't care. :p
Which is very revealing as to their character.
 

Poetic Nova

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LysanderNemoinis said:
Transsexuals do not. I don't want these people to be hurt or given shock treatment, but they need to see therapists before they mutilate their bodies. And if these people cannot bear to be called "he" when they prefered to be called "she," they how exactly are they going to deal with getting their bits hacked off?
Surely, you must love seeing someone depressed to the point of suicide. You don't wanna know the hell I've been through. And that annoying double standard of yours pretty much pisses me off.

I'll hammer on it once again: you really need to learn to respect trans people more. If anything, there are quite a few who will go through sexual reassingment surgery to make the mind match up with the body as much as it can be done. I know I will, because what I have between my legs certainely isn't making me happy.
 

bladestorm91

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The Matrix would honestly benefit from a reboot or better yet a reimagining than a sequel or prequel. For all the goodness the trilogies brought us, some of the things in that world were a bit poorly thought out (using humans as batteries comes to mind).

The biggest and most irreplaceable part of the Matrix movie is the Matrix itself, a virtual reality simulation. Everything else can be changed, including the real world of the Matrix.

So I hope if WB is planing to bring back this series that they just reimagine the whole series, the trilogy already brought the story of Neo to a close, now you could start something new.
 
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LysanderNemoinis said:
How am I being a dick? If the sky is blue and you believe the sky is orange, how am I being an asshole for pointing out a fact? Anyone can hold whatever thoughts and feelings they want, but those things cannot change scientific facts. If they were able to change themselves genetically and internally, then I would believe them. Similarly, Shaun King and Rachel Dolezal can claim to be black all they want, but it doesn't change the fact they're white, no matter how many times they get fake tans. I'm sorry if you probably don't believe the Earth is round or that the planet is heating up, but those are facts too. And by the way, nice how quickly you went for a personal attack. Stay classy.
Flawed analogy, as not only does it not fit in any way but the sky can be orange on occasion. Its more like you've got a pie, and you're looking at it and declaring it to be a delicious apple pie because it looks like every apple pie you've ever seen...but the person who put the filling in knows its (gasp!) rhubarb. You can peer at the crust all you like but thats not going to change it from rhubarb.
Oh, and you notice how you call me out for launching a personal attack on you mere moments after you launch a personal attack on me? You get whiplash from that hypocrisy?


RJ 17 said:
Make up any excuse you like, but in the end it's still an excuse. It just enables some guy to babble on with a bunch of stuff to sound deep and philosophical when all he's really doing is spouting bullshit. It's the same as a fool using big words without knowing their actual meaning in an attempt to sound like an intellectual. When called out on it, they just say "Well clearly you're just too simple to understand the complexity of what I'm talking about."

The Architect might as well have been a hippy that was stoned out of his mind while trying to explain the nature of existence to Neo. :^)

Quite simply: if your movie is meant to have a message - or at least promote meaningful thought in the audience - then it helps if your audience can understand what the hell's being talked about so they can apply their perspective to it, thus enabling them to actually think about/consider what's being said. If you just fill their head with a bunch of philosophical white-noise then there's absolutely no point to it. It becomes nothing but filler.
Oh I agree that everything he's saying is the finest of manure...but its what I was expecting to see in the first film. I was promised that something that at the very least pretended to be deep...but all I got was Laurence Fishburne quoting Alice in Wonderland with every other line. When the Architect shows up and he's like someone combined both Jeffrey Lebowskis into one my reaction was "Well finally!"
 

LysanderNemoinis

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Poetic Nova said:
LysanderNemoinis said:
Transsexuals do not. I don't want these people to be hurt or given shock treatment, but they need to see therapists before they mutilate their bodies. And if these people cannot bear to be called "he" when they prefered to be called "she," they how exactly are they going to deal with getting their bits hacked off?
Surely, you must love seeing someone depressed to the point of suicide. You don't wanna know the hell I've been through. And that annoying double standard of yours pretty much pisses me off.

I'll hammer on it once again: you really need to learn to respect trans people more. If anything, there are quite a few who will go through sexual reassingment surgery to make the mind match up with the body as much as it can be done. I know I will, because what I have between my legs certainely isn't making me happy.
Already said I bear them no ill will. And once again, we have feelings versus facts. You're not refuting my logic in any way, merely stating that I need to get with the program and say all the right platitudes. We can continue going round and round, but we won't get anywhere because this is still a topic on which whoever has the most hurt feelings, wins. Ultimately, until society is willing to face facts and try to help people rather than indulge them, you're free to do whatever you want with yourself. And if you can get most people to call you whatever you want, dandy. But if this continues, at what point does it stop? For those who don't go all the way and get the surgery, does just saying they think they're male or female make them so? Are we going to start changing people's official ages because while they've lived sixty years, they only feel forty? Fundamentally, how is that different? And then who are you to say they're not? If you think this is just a slippery slope fallacy, then think back to fifty years ago when this entire topic would have sounded as strange then as people changing their age to what they feel now.

This isn't just about this one issue, it's about a society understanding that certain things are immutable, and provably so. You can say whatever you like and try to reason it out, but two plus two will always equal four. It's just the way it is. I'd say I look forward to hearing a refutation of my reasoning, but I know I won't get one. Guess I'm just yet another 'phobe' who hates people for no reason, right? I already indirectly caused a couple suspencions, so I think I'll bounce out of this thread before I do any more damage. Everyone, feel free to dogpile now.
 

Marter

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Darth Rosenberg said:
I just get the sneaking suspicion that Nemoinis really doesn't care. :p
Which is very revealing as to their character.
Or they don't know. I would just say "the Wachowskis."

I agree that all three movies are good. The sequels get too much hate from people who think too highly of the original. The worst one was The Animatrix. Only "Kid's Story" was good.

I know you don't care for scores, but I still have the ones I put from the last time I watched it.

Final Flight of the Osiris - 6/10
The Second Renaissance part 1 - 5/10
The Second Renaissance part 2 - 6/10
Kid's Story - 7/10
Program - 5/10
World Record - 6/10
Beyond - 6/10
A Detective Story - 6/10
Matriculated - 5/10
 

theSovietConnection

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Marter said:
Squilookle said:
How do you figure that, if he literally said himself that his involvement depends on the Wachowskis being in charge?
Because coercing someone into a cameo is a lot easier of a process than convincing them to star.
Pre-John Wick I'd have agreed with you, but given the success Keanu has found with his latest two action films, I don't think they could coerce him in to even a cameo appearance. He frankly doesn't need WB anymore.

Not to say he won't make a cameo, but I feel like if he does, it'd be for the fans, not because of anything WB would do.
 

Pyrian

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LysanderNemoinis said:
Already said I bear them no ill will.
You are promoting damaging misinformation about one of the most frequently hate-murdered populations, despite the easy availability of a wide variety of resources with which you could potentially educate yourself on the subject. You have displayed a lack of awareness of even the most basic facts available on Wikipedia [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexual#Causes.2C_studies.2C_and_theories] (e.g. detectable biological bases of gender dysphoria). You don't know what you're talking about, yet you are clearly interested in talking about it and not reading about it. Your arguments make no sense in light of established facts; I'm sure you could formulate new reasons to cling to your beliefs, but the fact is that you haven't even done that. Is there an important distinction between destructive willful ignorance and outright malice?

LysanderNemoinis said:
This isn't just about this one issue, it's about a society understanding that certain things are immutable, and provably so.
Pronouns are easily "mutable" by us. Biology mutates in a vast variety of ways that do not fit so easily into our two little boxes. There is little reason to make people suffer over pronouns.
 

Saelune

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LysanderNemoinis said:
LysanderNemoinis said:
Poetic Nova said:
I'll stick to the original triology. They never needed a reboot or a continuation. The Animatrix already gave more backstory to the triology, and is actually good. So what they're planning now is pretty redundant.

LysanderNemoinis said:
Wachowski brothers
Sisters. Not that hard.
No, brothers. Genetics aren't hard either. Quite straightforward, actually.
Ah, so you're not misinformed. You're just a dick. Gotcha
How am I being a dick? If the sky is blue and you believe the sky is orange, how am I being an asshole for pointing out a fact? Anyone can hold whatever thoughts and feelings they want, but those things cannot change scientific facts. If they were able to change themselves genetically and internally, then I would believe them. Similarly, Shaun King and Rachel Dolezal can claim to be black all they want, but it doesn't change the fact they're white, no matter how many times they get fake tans. I'm sorry if you probably don't believe the Earth is round or that the planet is heating up, but those are facts too. And by the way, nice how quickly you went for a personal attack. Stay classy.
I wonder how you would like people telling you what you are when it is not how you view yourself?

Do not criticize personal attacks when you are personally attacking all transgendered people by telling us what we are.
 

Hawki

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Darth Rosenberg said:
Honestly I didn't think it was that great a film series the first time around (I'm a complete weirdo who thinks the second one is actually the best), though it obviously made that dollar y'all so I can se why they want it back I do, generally speaking, think the first's the best in terms of at least having the most focus, but I personally reject the 'the sequels were shite' assessment, and see all three as necessary parts to tell Neo's and Smith's stories. To me it's like some sprawling three act narrative, and the original would feel so lackluster, simplistic, and anticlimactic on its lonesome.
I'm of the opinion that the trilogy is a case of an excellent first movie, followed by a good second movie, followed by an average third movie.

That said, I don't think the original absolutely needed a sequel. The sequels are an overall net positive, but the original is quite self-contained. Open ended arguably, but it didn't demand continuation.
 

Wintermute_v1legacy

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The Matrix is that kind of movie that just can't be recreated. If they make a new one I just hope it will look completely different and feature all new characters, no cameos or Keanu Reeves as some kind of Morpheus 2.0.
 

Zydrate

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I'm okay with this. Been almost 20 years, that franchise could use some new life to it.
 

Dalisclock

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Might be interested if they just admitted the whole "Human batteries" thing was BS instead of trying to squirm their way around it when called on it in Reloaded(or was it Revolutions?).

Especially since the Animatrix more or less lays out the Machines never wanted to fight in the first place and the whole point of the Matrix could easily be construed as "Saving our species until the earth recovers enough to support human life again". But apparently "Batteries" made more sense to someone.
 

Squilookle

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Marter said:
Squilookle said:
How do you figure that, if he literally said himself that his involvement depends on the Wachowskis being in charge?
Because coercing someone into a cameo is a lot easier of a process than convincing them to star.
Cameo. Starring role. They all fall under 'involvement', wouldn't you say?
 

Mortuorum

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Dalisclock said:
Might be interested if they just admitted the whole "Human batteries" thing was BS instead of trying to squirm their way around it when called on it in Reloaded(or was it Revolutions?).

Especially since the Animatrix more or less lays out the Machines never wanted to fight in the first place and the whole point of the Matrix could easily be construed as "Saving our species until the earth recovers enough to support human life again". But apparently "Batteries" made more sense to someone.
Maybe that's the actual purpose of the Matrix, but not what they told the agent programs. For... reasons? Viewed in that light, the resistance really are terrorists and Zion is a cancer that threatens the future of the human race.

What would happen if Neo found that out and believed it, but nobody else did? (Okay, maybe Trinity, too.) Neo fighting for the machines (and the future of humanity) against the resistance could be fun if done correctly.

You'd need to ignore most of the sequels, but (as I said earlier) I'd be perfectly happy to do that.
 

gorfias

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The biggest reason they do not need a reboot?

In any fiction where reality is being distorted, you can easily have a new story in which the hero finds out what he thought happened never really did: including his own death.

Why did Neo have powers in the real world? (He stopped the squid things if I recall correctly). His powers should be limited to the world of the Matrix. IMHO: He only thought he was in the real world.

This allows for a heck of a lot of story fixes and mind blowing stuff. It would be like seeing Arnie woken up at the end of Total Recall: back to road work and your very much alive wife Arnie!
 

Marter

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Squilookle said:
Marter said:
Squilookle said:
How do you figure that, if he literally said himself that his involvement depends on the Wachowskis being in charge?
Because coercing someone into a cameo is a lot easier of a process than convincing them to star.
Cameo. Starring role. They all fall under 'involvement', wouldn't you say?
Hence "coerced" and "convinced." And "the best fans could hope for."

I never said it was likely or was happening. I just think it's possible, even without the Wachowskis, that he could cameo in the thing.

You're free to disagree.
 

Pyrian

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"Possible" is a pretty safe assertion. I'd say that as long as Keanu Reeves wasn't dead, it'd still be possible, but recently Rogue One had multiple cameos from dead actors, FFS.
 

votemarvel

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I could see them creating a transgender hero this time around.

Think about it. The Matrix operates on self image. Who is to say that your physical body has to match that you inhabit in the Matrix.

Be even more of a shock when you get freed and find out you aren't physically who you thought you were. Imagine the temptation the Agents could use on this new One.
 

theSovietConnection

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Would be good to update the article that it isn't a remake/reboot.
http://movieweb.com/matrix-4-not-reboot-remake/
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

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I have doubts I will derive pleasure from this. Time will tell but can't we just let IPs die off in piece?
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Hawki said:
The Matrix Rebooted?

The Matrix Relaunched?

The Matrix Revisited?

The Matrix Recollections?
The Matrix Rehashed?

The Matrix Reborn?

The Matrix Redone?
 

Thaluikhain

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LysanderNemoinis said:
Guess I'm just yet another 'phobe' who hates people for no reason, right?
You've decided to dismiss people's gender identity for no particular reason, and also that you understand trans issues better than trans people do. It's not particularly surprising if you are to get judged by trans people because of this, and if some people happen to decide you seem rather transphobic. Now, I'm not saying that myself (in the actively hating trans people sense), but if we are to broaden transphobia into being biased or intolerant of trans people, it's easy to read that into what you've written.

You said "they need to see therapists". Anyone who knows anything about trans people will tell you that trying to make trans people into cis people by therapy simply does not work, and tends to be exceedingly harmful. Accepting trans people as the gender they identify as does work, and has the added bonus of not affecting anyone else in any way.

As you say, it's fact vs feelings, and the facts are not on your side.
 

Scarim Coral

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While I am against the reboot but if they did, it would make total sense as in the Matrix had rebooted itself!

Still I think it is likely they will revive it since the Smiths made a cameo in the Lego Batman Movie!
 

Erttheking

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LysanderNemoinis said:
Poetic Nova said:
I'll stick to the original triology. They never needed a reboot or a continuation. The Animatrix already gave more backstory to the triology, and is actually good. So what they're planning now is pretty redundant.

LysanderNemoinis said:
Wachowski brothers
Sisters. Not that hard.
No, brothers. Genetics aren't hard either. Quite straightforward, actually.
Do I need to explain the difference between gender and sex?
 

Terminal Blue

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LysanderNemoinis said:
And once again, we have feelings versus facts.
Says the person whose forum avatar references an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory popularised by the NSDAP.

No, no. That's a cheap shot. Let's go through and find out what a "factual" argument looks like, shall we.

LysanderNemoinis said:
Ultimately, until society is willing to face facts and try to help people rather than indulge them, you're free to do whatever you want with yourself.
"Indulging" people, as you put it, is helping them. In fact, it's the most factually effectual way of helping them, no matter what your feelings say.

LysanderNemoinis said:
But if this continues, at what point does it stop?
Wherever your personal feelings say it stops, because this is a slippery slope argument.

LysanderNemoinis said:
Fundamentally, how is that different?
Because age, ambiguities over at what point we count the beginning of life aside, is a stable and immutable property of the human subject. Gender identity is not and cannot be shown to be such by any scientific process. Your feeling that this is the same does not make it the same.

LysanderNemoinis said:
If you think this is just a slippery slope fallacy..
I don't think this is a slippery slope fallacy. It factually is.

LysanderNemoinis said:
This isn't just about this one issue, it's about a society understanding that certain things are immutable, and provably so.
And certain things are not immutable, and provably so. Gender identity is provably one of those things. If it were not, then it would be impossible for someone to not identify with their birth sex.

And if you think this argument would have been unthinkable 50 years ago, have you read Freud or the early psychoanalysts? That shit is going to blow your mind.

But then, given your avatar you probably think psychoanalysis is a conspiracy by Jews to destroy white culture from within..
 

ScorpionPrince

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A matrix sequel that puts the original trilogy on its head would be nice. The original purpose of keeping humans in the matrix was not to generate power with body heat, but instead, they use their brains to mass calculate on solving a problem. What problem? maybe something that threatens the real life existence of the machines. Maybe something that threatens them both, which means that the machines conscripted the humans unknowingly, trying to save them both. The idea of using human's brain power was considered by the (then) warkowski brothers, but they thought that audiences wouldn't get it. Maybe now they do? What do you think about this general premise?