Warner Brothers Foresees End of Shoddy Superhero Games

[GiantRaven]

In any given superhero story, how many characters are actually stronger than the protagonist?

I don't really think that would be a big sticking point in superhero videogames. How many games are there where we play as a completely unfaltering undefeatable protagonist?

absolutely no character

If you think Batman has absolutely no character, then maybe you should try reading better written Batman stories?

Batman is too perfect to be true. Having villains that have been to college doesnt change that.

My god, it's almost as if comic book characters don't adhere to any sense of reality!

 

[viranimus]

Its a nice thought, but No.

What is being missed here is that Batman is a desirable property to begin with. You mix that in with a truly well crafted game youve still got a good game.

But you have to ask what happens when you take that same "good game" engine and slap it with a different IP that people generally dont like such as say, Superman. You will find that people still dont like Superman and the only way the game is going to do well is if the gameplay mechanics are so fun that it negates how lame it is to play as superman.

No, what this feels like is Warner Bros got a taste of how it feels to have good game revenues come in and they think that will always be open to them regardless of what they try to push out the gate and sadly they have no idea just how badly that will fail.

I mean WB started pushing more of their influence into Arkham city, and yet the general consensus seems to agree that City while it is a good and well made game, its just not as good as Asylum. (at least when you look at the opinions of those who are not being paid for their opinions) So can you really trust the logic of people who have shown such faulty logic? Its a nice idea, but its just not a realistic one.

 

[Gxas]

My head is still reeling over the fact that a ton of comments in this thread have suggested that they try and tackle Marvel heroes.

The article clearly stated that this new studio would be working on DC heroes.

It's not that hard to distinguish the difference between the two.

 

[Saltyk]

Halleluiah!

This is all we ever wanted: Good Superhero games. Its not too much to ask for, but it does seem extremely rare. But why did Superhero games always have to be tied in to movies? Obviously they didn't, but no studio before Rocksteady ever thought to make one it seems.

But if they are serious about this, they need to hire a staff that genuinely loves the characters. This seems to be the magic of Rocksteady. Arkham Asylum and Arkham City were labors of love. They took the character seriously and made a game relevant to his mythos and abilities. You couldn't do a Superman or Iron Man game in the same way. It would feel cheap and forced. What made those games work was that you felt like Batman. Taking down enemies from the shadows, beating 10 goons at once, investigating a crime scene, these were all very Batman actions and immersed the player all the more. Seriously, I felt like Batman playing those games! That's how good they were. And that's what they should strive for.

As for a good DC character to base a game on. How about Wonder Woman? She isn't quite as ridiculous as Superman, is a trained fighter with her bracelets making for a good counter system, and it would be interesting to play as a female superhero. She's not really a risk as she is one of the big Justice League members so people know about her. I can see a lot of potential here.

 

[Covarr]

Not always poor, ethnic minority, disabled or mentally ill but normally fall into one or more of those catagories.

Poor is irrelevant, as it has nothing to do with why he takes 'em in; it just shows he doesn't discriminate. He has no problem taking on rich folks like The Penguin and Two-Face. The common factor is that they're CRIMINALS. Being poor doesn't give them a pass to do whatever they want.

Ethnic minority? I guess Bane is, and he's not even a major or common villain. And he's an obscenely powerful criminal; should he be let free because he's a minority? Beyond that, the only non-American villains he deals with on even a semi-regular bases are Ra's Al Ghul, a terrorist, and (in the animated series) Red Claw (a terrorist).

Disabled? Umm, the Riddler tends to carry a cane around with him. I don't think that counts, since it's just for show.

Mentally Ill. Now you finally have an arguably valid point. A number of Batman villains CLEARLY are, particularly Harley Quinn and The Joker, but also a few others. However, even so, that's not MOST of Batman's gallery of rogues, just more than the other categories.

But rather than disproving the specifics, I'm going to get right to the point you're trying to make. You seem to be implying that Batman is at the top of society, and that the villains are all treated as inferiors because they're not as well off. The problem is, this isn't true. Villains such as Ra's al Ghul, Rupert Thorne, Max Shreck, Roland Daggett, Carmine Falcone, Sal Maroni, Red Claw, The Penguin... They are all wealthy and important, often just as high-class and big-name as Bruce.

So no, Batman does not step off his pedestal to take down the have-nots. In fact, a LARGE chunk of his enemies are the haves of Gotham. He spends a LOT of time dealing with people who have had the same or better opportunities as him, but have chosen to abuse that.

As for the whole thing about Batman being "too perfect to be true", this is probably the most reasonable thing you've said. But you need to keep in mind, that could be said about just about every superhero ever. Spider-Man can shoot webs from his wrists, the X-Men can do all types of crazy crap, the Green Lantern can turn his arms into all sorts of weird things, Superman can do pretty much whatever's convenient for a given issue [http://superdickery.com/]... A good superhero story isn't based on the credibility of his backstory or even the universe he's in, but on how well the character and those around him are handled in the scenario they have been placed in. And frankly, Batman is handled pretty damn well.

P.S. Thanks

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Little off topic, but reading this gives me hope that I can play a good Spawn video game.

 

[Jonny49]

Give me a good Superman or Green Arrow game and thou shall be rewarded by my £40.

 

[Therumancer]

Hmmm, well my thoughts on the subject are mixed. To be honest the moral code of heroes was largely inserted in it's current form due to the old Comics Code Authority. This is why when it collapsed you saw so many lethal super heroes making apperances.... though arguably if you look at the inspiration for super heroes back in old pulps and such, they were killing people in the beginning, and are sort of getting back to the original format.

Granted certain characters like Batman and Superman have become defined enough by their morality where it's difficult to do them without it, but comics like "The Authority" have shown how super hero stories can be done with few if any recurring villains (because those they face wind up dead).

It should also be noted that super heroes generally run into equal force on the other side. Superman has had some major punch ups with his enemies, and even lost a few times. Guys like Lex (the classic mad scientist version) had plenty of super weapons that were able to take Superman down (even if he usually comes back to win in the end). Batman can be taken out by relatively normal guys, he's been mobbed by thugs and put in death traps on more than one occasion (Two-Face and the giant execution penny... which remains in Batman's Lair as a trophy, being one notable bit). Sure "The Joker" might not be a match for Batman in a straight fight, but he's always got a trick which "almost gets him" as a last ditch effort, and has tons of thugs, many of which Batman has not been able to take in a straight fight. Batman has occasionally gotten pounded by like 8' clowns.

That said, I do hope we see more super hero games out there. Truthfully as much as I like the "Arkham" games I've been more of a fan of the X-men Actio-RPGs even if they had been going down hill... I'd like to see more games of that sort, though I kind of suspect the horror called "X-men: Destiny" which is little more than a soulless brawler is the end of the series.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

City of Heroes/Villains is still head and shoulders over most superhero games

Even City of Heroes had it's major draw backs and problems. I should know, it consumed four years of my life.

Ahem. 1200 hours online. 18 different characters. Yeah, it does that.

I got most annoyed with melee having such a strong advantage over ranged - and then with the Lusca boost, GDN/ED, and the insane powers of Dark, I left.

Been back recently though. And the BreakOut/OutBreak mission at the start is really powerful. They've put a lot of work back into making you feel super.

Shivans at level 1? Damn, skippy.

 

[Baresark]

He doesn't beat up and imprison the poor. He beats up and imprisons bad guys, who are not always poor. He traveled abroad for years to learn his skills and when he came back to Gotham he made tons of mistakes at first, he got better over time. He wasn't born with any of these skills. He trained for years and he still is training. Also, tons of his foes are highly intelligent. Take Bane for example, he speaks eight languages, and figured out who Batman was in under a year and broke his back. He's also a master tactician as well. Bane is just as smart as Batman is.

Not always poor, ethnic minority, disabled or mentally ill but normally fall into one or more of those catagories.

Yes he travelled abroard but he is an expert at everything, obviously spends far too much time in the gym, is a prolific inventor, master investigator, mixed martial artist, expert in psychology, criminology, chemistry, physics, forensics, business, ecomomics, I could go on and on... Polymath does not do Batman justice. He would have to be in his sixties to have a chance at so many specialisms. Travelling abroard for a couple of years doesnt make you magic.

Dont even get me started on who does the plumbing on his batcave or the mechanics on his batmobile...

Batman is too perfect to be true. Having villains that have been to college doesnt change that.

It's pretty well documented that he does not invent all his devices. Other people invent them and he uses them. He creates some things, but he didn't create the batmobile or the computer in the batcave or any of those things. He uses his resources to acquire them. It's his fortune that allows him to have the time to be physically extraordinary. And it's also documented in the amount of work he puts into being the way he is.

When everything is said and done though, you can't dislike the character because he is "too perfect to be true". It's not meant to be realistic. Also, I don't know if you have ever read comics before, but it's not about how perfect they are or how right they act. The story arc is only ever about the sacrifices and work the hero character does to overcome the villain and still be the essentially same good person as when the arc started. That is why the wedded Superman was hardly as interesting as the unwedded Superman. The conflict. He has something he is always striving towards, something even Superman can't have.

Though, I could do without the "Batman can beat everyone mentality". That shit gets so annoying. The Knightfall story was so fantastic because Batman didn't beat Bane. Bane broke him. Eventually he won, but there was a massive sacrifice involved, part of which was the destruction of what Batman stood for when Azrael took over as Batman.

So, you miss the point completely with your assessment of what Batman does. The difference between Batman and Punisher, besides the obvious, is that Batman may take down criminals from impoverished or mentally defective backrounds, but he offers them a chance to rehabilitate and not be criminals. Punisher just kills them (most of the time).


OT: I read this article as an intention to make other games in the same style as the most recent Batman titles. Good games, but the play style would hardly be fit for a lot of super heroes.

Edit: I can't help but feel that in situations like this that the people talking are completely missing the point of why a game either does well or does poorly. All the things they mention they think superhero games should contain has in fact been contained in various games of the past, that did very poorly. I would direct your attention to Superman Returns game.

 

[KirbyKrackle]

I'd love to see a Blade game. That could be awesome. What they need is good writers, else they will always feel like cheap cash-ins.

If they kept it as R-rated as the movies, that would actually be pretty great. I'm actually surprised there isn't a Blade video game, to be honest. I read an amusing review the other day that basically points out that Blade II is pretty much a non-interactive video game already.

Oh, and and just to jump in on The Batman Thing that's going on here: I'm personally not a fan of the character, but the "more guns=more better character" mentality appearing in some posts is just incredibly stupid and juvenile and helped to produce some of the worst superhero comics of the past few decades.

EDIT: Oh, apparently there was one, and it wasn't very good. Well, can't say I'm surprised.

 

[Paladin Anderson]

City of Heroes/Villains is still head and shoulders over most superhero games

Even City of Heroes had it's major draw backs and problems. I should know, it consumed four years of my life.

Ahem. 1200 hours online. 18 different characters. Yeah, it does that.

I got most annoyed with melee having such a strong advantage over ranged - and then with the Lusca boost, GDN/ED, and the insane powers of Dark, I left.

Been back recently though. And the BreakOut/OutBreak mission at the start is really powerful. They've put a lot of work back into making you feel super.

Shivans at level 1? Damn, skippy.

Argh I know exactly what you mean. And Blasters! Blasters are the WORST type in that game. In order to blast effectively you need tons of support and aggro control to stay alive and unmezzed. While other classes that come close to blaster damage (scrappers, dominators, brutes, and now even masterminds with the incarnate abilities added to pets) can run around soloing entire spawns by themselves.

I played blasters only when I got sick of the game being too easy with my other characters.

 

[mrm5561]

if they really are planning on making better games the first step is finding a dc hero other than batman they can make a game about. green lantern would be fun but since he can make his ring do whatever he wants its going to feel like the player has no control over what he makes. flash is kinda out too cause a game where you can run faster than the speed of light would make for a short game. as weird as it sounds i think they should go with a teen titans game. every hero can have their own gameplay an missions and way to get around the city. plus that means more nightwing and im all for that

What did Comma's ever do to you?

OT: This might be good for the fans of other comic series, but I was only interested in Batman to be honest, so I care not for this news.

they killed my father.... how does that make you feel

 

[Soxafloppin]

Little off topic, but reading this gives me hope that I can play a good Spawn video game.

I remember loving Spawn: Armageddon, I was pretty young though so it might have sucked.

 

[Little Duck]

Tell you what I'm looking forward to now, a good pixar game.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

And Blasters! Blasters are the WORST type in that game. In order to blast effectively you need tons of support and aggro control to stay alive and unmezzed. While other classes that come close to blaster damage (scrappers, dominators, brutes, and now even masterminds with the incarnate abilities added to pets) can run around soloing entire spawns by themselves.

En/En/Fo Blaster - I hear your pain. I respecced to a Blapper as soon as I could. Yeah...let's make the only thing vulnerable to KB Cogs...But give Electrics -Stam from the start.

Masterminds (especially Darks) can solo AVs. I used to get cut to shreds by fecking Malta on -1.

 

[Paladin Anderson]

And Blasters! Blasters are the WORST type in that game. In order to blast effectively you need tons of support and aggro control to stay alive and unmezzed. While other classes that come close to blaster damage (scrappers, dominators, brutes, and now even masterminds with the incarnate abilities added to pets) can run around soloing entire spawns by themselves.

En/En/Fo Blaster - I hear your pain. I respecced to a Blapper as soon as I could. Yeah...let's make the only thing vulnerable to KB Cogs...But give Electrics -Stam from the start.

Masterminds (especially Darks) can solo AVs. I used to get cut to shreds by fecking Malta on -1.

AVs? My demon/dark incarnate can solo most GMs. One of the incarnate powers gives all attacks a 75% chance of setting off 60 points of fire dot and a 25% chance of doing a -resistance debuff. And that affects all your pets. Most pets don't even DO 60 points of damage per attack! So it simply just doubled their DPS.

Thug masterminds have it even better since it affects their Summon Posse power. Those temporary 10 guys were meant to take aggro, not do damage, now they're each doing as much damage as non-incarnate LT pets.

Most mastermind incarnates now have DPS on par with non-incarnate blasters.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Most mastermind incarnates now have DPS on par with non-incarnate blasters.

And PvP, Blasters may as well just act as Stalker bait.

Sad. With a bit of balancing and less "FUN", it could be such a wonderful game.

 

[SanguineSymphony]

I like Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, Viewtiful Joe and plenty of other super hero games far more than AA...

AA was just a decent Metroidvania game with upgrades that were too limited a completely fixed path...

I haven't played AC yet but I would rather they had improved the Metroidvania format than just do an open world super hero game. Both Spidey and Infamous make the format redundant in regards to superhero games.

 

[Lyvric]

Batman tends to be a walking confliction. He was a pretty dark character off to start and even took lives. Though it's not blatently obvious, he has commited serveral crimes (though may not recognize them as such) himself but uses money and a desperate past to justify it. Despite all his knowledge, money and political-immunity-like spam, he feels like he has to over compensate for himself in by being a 'super hero'. Batman is not a heroic character, infact, I find him quite the opposite.

I'm not sure who I'd like to see next in a game. Maybe a lesser known one would be fun. One not everybody knows everything about to start.