WARNING! this is a real threat to basic human freedoms!

Wicky_42

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Sep 15, 2008
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lRookiel said:
hehe, I doubt this will last more than a year but seriously this law is fucked in so many ways.

So basically from what I read (Not the whole thing) the american military are becoming an occupying force on their own country? and detaining ANYONE who they think is even a slight bother?

That defeats the point of a military designed to protect their citizens, how stupid are your politicians?!
See that's where you're getting confused. Haven't you worked out by now that "citizens" are just fodder for the political elite? Who themselves are extensions of corporations? I mean, it's almost a cliché by now it's such common knowledge :/ Why do you think corporations stump up so much cash for the election campaigns? It's an investment. Why do politicians retire to comfy board positions on those same corporations? It's a reward.

So much about political systems is a farce, just the wealthy securing their position in an endless cycle. It's no better in the UK, where headlines today claim that the income disparity between the richest and poorest is growing faster than in any other Western country. People protest, they get shut down by heavy-handed police, by sneering media, by ignorant or short-sighted citizens content to think that they actually have opportunities and prospects that they have any real control over.

The job losses from the current recession are in no way the fault of the people losing their jobs, but whilst they are losing their livelihoods, the horrendously wealthy people who orchestrated and oversaw the current economy woes get bonuses and pay-rises of grotesque quantities. The idea that a man can make himself is a fallacy. Those few who do make it are lucky and smart, but the vast majority of us have no real power or influence over the policies of the people who claim to represent us. Just take the UK's current government, a coalition between two ideologically opposed parties that has rode rough-shod over their manifestos. They literally have no democratic mandate to pass the legislation they have been enacting, and the damage that they are doing to the country's institutions is irreversible and traumatic. Even the protesting of millions of public sector workers the largest union action in my lifespan was considered a "damp squib" by PM Cameron - just what the fuck to people have to do to have influence? Donate a few hundred thousand to the party's political campaign? That's not democracy, that's more like Medieval Theology.
 

carpathic

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Oct 5, 2009
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Berithil said:
Call me silly but this seems pretty unconstitutional. Even if it isnt, imagine how many loopholes they would have to go through to word it properly and get a pass. It seems like it will only be a matter of time before they try to disregard the constitution entirely. Hopefully it will get shot down.
Oh but the pork that would accompany a bill like that...

Somehow, the bill would be tied to giving money to churches in the deep south, building an aircraft carrier in arizona (yep, I meant that) and then called the "Freedom from Military Persecution Bill" so that people would think it was about something else entirely.

I love politics.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
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I love it how we're fighting for "democracy" in the Middle East, and meanwhile we're losing our own. People are so fuckin' stupid. Basic constitutional rights don't mean a god damn thing anymore. Just look at what happened with Occupy Wall Street. They just went around the freedom of assembly right (which is a part of the first amendment) by saying the protesters are polluting the area. Land of the free my ass.
 

Diablo1099_v1legacy

Doom needs Yoghurt, Badly
Dec 12, 2009
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carpathic said:
Berithil said:
Call me silly but this seems pretty unconstitutional. Even if it isnt, imagine how many loopholes they would have to go through to word it properly and get a pass. It seems like it will only be a matter of time before they try to disregard the constitution entirely. Hopefully it will get shot down.
Oh but the pork that would accompany a bill like that...

Somehow, the bill would be tied to giving money to churches in the deep south, building an aircraft carrier in arizona (yep, I meant that) and then called the "Freedom from Military Persecution Bill" so that people would think it was about something else entirely.

I love politics.
YAY POLITICS!! :D
OT: So by that logic, I pass a bill that called for the destuction of Rhode Island as long as I had a bill calling for free puppies duct taped to it?
Why is anyone on this planet still alive?
 
Aug 25, 2009
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Seems to mostly affect Americans, but is that provision about picking up others outside the United States and detaining them without trial also true? I'd like to see them verify that if they just started going to other countries, arresting people and throwing them in American prisons without trial.

'Yes Mr Cameron, we did arrest Mr John Smith on British soil, brought him over and currently have him locked in Guantanemo, but I really don't see what the issue is.'
 

Edible Avatar

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Oct 26, 2011
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Joseph Alexander said:
http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/10023-senate-passes-controversial-defense-bill

yes, you read that right.
the senate has pushed forth an act that gives the military the ability to throw you in jail without cause, conviction, or end on mere suspicion.
and we though SOPA was the biggest threat to freedom.
I read into this awhile back as a part of a news article, and its true that anyone could be imprisoned, but their arrest and detention can ONLY be warrented by the secretary of defence (he would have to actually sign the warrant of arrest).

Still, there is no good reason that this bill exists.
 

winter2

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Oct 10, 2009
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Wait what... what the hell... This can't be true, can it?

Anybody have a different source ?
 

Edible Avatar

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Oct 26, 2011
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willsham45 said:
I always wander, would it actally be for the best if all american states became there own country things would get a bit less stupid from that end of the world.
Let me get this straight: 50 independent countries, armed with nukes, some in poverty, and our "Pants-On-Head-Retarded"(TM) governors and senators become world leaders?
...Would you happen to be an Anarchist?

The US being together is the one thing that we got right!
 

Jegsimmons

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Nov 14, 2010
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it wont hold up, states will challenge it or the supreme court will strike it down, either way once the masses get wind, hell will break loose.



on another unrelated note: who wants to go gun shopping?
 
Jan 27, 2011
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If this law is actually PASSED and becomes a law, I will never want to visit the US again.

This is unconstitutional, and downright totalitarian. This CAN and WILL be abused to all hell the second it gets signed.

Now all we have to do is hope that Obama gets it so he can veto it before his term is up.

Also, why aren't the republicans fighting this? Because I thought they were AGAINST big government. This IS big government. This should be the kind of thing they should HATE, no?
 

winter2

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Oct 10, 2009
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Seriously.. wtf.. first SOPA and now this? If I didn't know any better it almost sounds like a playbook is being played out here.
 

Jegsimmons

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Nov 14, 2010
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Sjakie said:
Why are Americans always talking about civil rights?

Because they dont have any, they just dont know it yet!
and thats why we like our guns, if shit ever hits the fans all 80 million (registered, probably more than that) will point them at DC and say

[HEADING=2]BACK THE FUCK DOWN!!![/HEADING]

between that right and the system of checks and balances and the states starting to realize they still have a say so is why im worried....but not TOO worried.

but still worried.


that and i plan on having a second house in Switzerland anyway.
 

Crazycat690

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Aug 31, 2009
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Krantos said:
Well, time to move. Where's a good place?

*looks at the EU*
eh, nope.
What's wrong with the EU? Is it the good economy or schools? Perhaps the actually sane politicians? I demand a response on this! This statement simply doesn't make sense D:

Waiting for the magical word?

...Please? =3
 

Racecarlock

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Jul 10, 2010
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Sylvine said:
Did any one of You bother to actually check sections 1031 and 1032, or did You all just assume. Oh! It says so on teh internets! Must be true, then!...?

Under 1031:
"(d) CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITATION ON APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES PERSONS.
?The authority to detain a person under this section does not extend to the
detention of citizens or lawful resident aliens of the United
States on the basis of conduct taking place within the
United States except to the extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States."

Under 1032:
"(b) REQUIREMENT INAPPLICABLE TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS.
?The requirement to detain a person in military custody
under this section does not extend to
citizens of the United States."

Source: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s1253rs/pdf/BILLS-112s1253rs.pdf

So, yeah. Goddamn it, I'm not even a citizen of the US. Do Your own research?

~Sylv
Well, still pretty scary. If I'm reading this correctly, this means we can permanently imprison every illegal immigrant without trial. So yeah, still pretty nuts.

I'm starting to feel like I live in Britain as run by norsefire.
 

elbrandino

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Dec 8, 2010
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I'm having trouble believing this actually got through Congress. And at such a huge majority. I know your politicians are stupid, but they're not that stupid. If it somehow did pass, either Obama will veto it, or I'm going to take it to the Supreme Court myself.