I only played the demo, but I think because it changed so much from the first one, into a hack and slash that people didnt like it. It's a fault on Bioware's part though, why fix something that isn't broken?
Was Dragon Age II really that bad?
- Thread starter woodaba
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Yes, it wasn't very good at all; Let me point out these facts.
1. Obviously the reuse of dungeons.
2. Storyline was terribly dull, compared to the simple(yet interesting)DA:O.
3. Your stuck in kirkwell.
4. The companions you get are pretty meh.
5. The waves of enemies when you get attacked.
6. The illogical hatred between the mages and the templars
7. Rogues seem to be far too overpowered, plus mages and tanks are underpowered.
8. They got rid of the ranger skill. =(
9. Like some of you said, alot of your choices dont mean much since it is going to happen anyway.
There are many more, but I cant think of them at the moment.
Ok, now the decent things about DA2.
1. You get a tank pretty early in the game(unlike Awakening).
2. Combat is better in DA2 than DA:O in some aspects; Alot of the new skills are pretty good (rogue skills at least), and it is nice to see the fancy(yet unrealistic)fighting moves.
3. Having a family is interesting, although nearly all of them die. -_-
Also can't think of any more xD.
Alot of you may think im been far too critical, but how would alot of you feel if you had waited for ages for a sequel of one of your most favourite games, and then it turns out to be more terrible than you thought it was going to be? (Thought it was going to be as mediocre as KOTOR 2.) =/
1. Obviously the reuse of dungeons.
2. Storyline was terribly dull, compared to the simple(yet interesting)DA:O.
3. Your stuck in kirkwell.
4. The companions you get are pretty meh.
5. The waves of enemies when you get attacked.
6. The illogical hatred between the mages and the templars
7. Rogues seem to be far too overpowered, plus mages and tanks are underpowered.
8. They got rid of the ranger skill. =(
9. Like some of you said, alot of your choices dont mean much since it is going to happen anyway.
There are many more, but I cant think of them at the moment.
Ok, now the decent things about DA2.
1. You get a tank pretty early in the game(unlike Awakening).
2. Combat is better in DA2 than DA:O in some aspects; Alot of the new skills are pretty good (rogue skills at least), and it is nice to see the fancy(yet unrealistic)fighting moves.
3. Having a family is interesting, although nearly all of them die. -_-
Also can't think of any more xD.
Alot of you may think im been far too critical, but how would alot of you feel if you had waited for ages for a sequel of one of your most favourite games, and then it turns out to be more terrible than you thought it was going to be? (Thought it was going to be as mediocre as KOTOR 2.) =/
I don't believe it was so bad, rather it was just a different type of game.
Granted it had similarities to the first but it seemed like everything changed with it.
It went from an Epic Character-Based Adventure to an Interesting Combat-Based Dungeon Crawl.
Don't get me wrong, Hawke was obviously the head of the story, but in Origins it was you building up your own character and creating an identity for him/her. With Hawke he/she is basically already laid out with a destiny, and you don't make nearly as much of an impact.
Granted it had similarities to the first but it seemed like everything changed with it.
It went from an Epic Character-Based Adventure to an Interesting Combat-Based Dungeon Crawl.
Don't get me wrong, Hawke was obviously the head of the story, but in Origins it was you building up your own character and creating an identity for him/her. With Hawke he/she is basically already laid out with a destiny, and you don't make nearly as much of an impact.
Okay I wish this topic got pushed aside a long time a go, a disappointing and unenjoyable should just go and be forgotten but I'll throw in why I don't like it. Before I begin I need to explain that there a multitude of issues with this game that individually don't make a huge difference but together with a number of issues, breaks aspects of the game. Spoilers ahead.
Firstly, the character of Hawke. Now in an RPG for me to have any interest in going through a game, i need to care about what is going on, both on the individual level and on the environmental level. Starting on the individual level you play as Hawke. Heres already a very important point. You play as HAWKE not as yourself. This story is NOT about YOU, its about someone else. Thats a real big handicap in a videogame as you strip much of the potential of the whole interactive nature of the game away when you make that significant disconnect. This is compounded by issues such as a having your main character being voiced (which immediately snaps a player out of the game, hearing someone else speak for you) and not being able to entirely choose what you are saying. It just builds up and up about this story being about some random person and that you as a player, don't even really need to be there. If I wanted to watch someone else's story play out, I would watch a Game of Thrones, same effect but of a far greater quality. The game tries to make you care about Hawke's family which is a neat idea, maybe you as a player dont get to influence the character but instead get to influence the world around him right? You get to change Kirkwall based upon your actions aswell? Unfortunately that just leads onto the next problem.
The Illusion of choice. Everyone knows that this has to exist in video games to some degree but Dragon Age 2 does a particularly poor job of disguising it. At no point did I as a player feel like I could influence events (examples below in spoiler tags), your just an observer of events
The story's pacing is such an absolute mess. The game feels like its 3 table top roleplaying campaigns, each with they're own individual climax's, they even follow the convention of having plot device of first story causing 3rd act climax. Its a great 'idea' and intially reminded me of what was done at the start of Baldur's Gate 2, one core city and the surrounding lands, you need to get x sum of money to continue plot forcing players to explore their surroundings. Problem is, at the end of each act, all tension and drama is resolved and the player moves up in the world. Honestly they feel like 3 side plots in a game, they dont last long enough or provide enough focus their key issues in the limelight or allow the player to explore them. The treasure hunt is necessary....why? They need to hide from the templars they say? Seems like me firing off magic bolts in the street would kinda give myself away but whatever, also since when does money protect mages from templars? Nobility maybe but seems like the templars particularly in Kirkwall are an authority unto themselves. The Quanri seem to have a very silly approach to everything, I get 'me warrior code! Me morally superior to you!' thing they have going but ultimately they seem to spend absolutely no time looking for what their after, simply sitting on their asses. Seems Isabella's 'friends' are ludicrously good at laying low in a fairly confined city. Also, Isabella will run away even if you tell her she can have the book, which seems kind of dumb. Atleast they allowed her to comeback but Im not entirely sure what causes that, i assumed it was you reputation with her. Again, the climax comes with very little relationship to your adventures as you charge into the palace and save the day. Just as again it does with the mages as you spend a large deal of time doing a variety of sidequests which you MUST complete regardless of your feelings on the issue. Im a mage, why am I doing a job for the templars?
The combat. Some like it, fine but considering this is a game built upon a pause and play system, I would atleast think that tactics actually mattered. Unfortunately this game turns into nothing but a resource management game if you decide to play it that way. The wave based nature of every combat means that positioning is entirely meaningless and your simply trying to figure out how many resources you need to spend to win the fight (knowning that you need to save some for wave 2 which is light spam enemies and wave 3 which is moderate enemies led by a yellow). It just got really stale really fast, even fight became an absolute slog and all the enemies were practically identical. You got your archers, melee, buffers, assassins (assassin templars in their massive plate armour is perhaps the funniest/stupidest thing I have seen in a long time) and the mages or the, IMMEDIATELY SHIELDBASH THIS GUY class. I never felt like I was playing smart but simply trying to Game the game, by figuring out what was missing in each wave that they were going to throw at me next wave. After going through literally hundreds of random street thugs who were apparently more powerful than battle hardened elite Quanri warriors.
You can like or dislike the characters as much as you want, personally I only found 2 characters interesting, Varic because he atleast voiced his opinion, and im always a fan of a smartass. Also Isabella, she is the definition of an adventurer, a person who makes her own decisions, right or wrong and deals with the consequences. She asks the player at one point if, after all of this is done, that you run off with her as her First Mate, explore the land for fortune and adventure. That's the game I would have liked to play, one where I was free to make my own path, and have my own story told, not to watch Hawke's.
Firstly, the character of Hawke. Now in an RPG for me to have any interest in going through a game, i need to care about what is going on, both on the individual level and on the environmental level. Starting on the individual level you play as Hawke. Heres already a very important point. You play as HAWKE not as yourself. This story is NOT about YOU, its about someone else. Thats a real big handicap in a videogame as you strip much of the potential of the whole interactive nature of the game away when you make that significant disconnect. This is compounded by issues such as a having your main character being voiced (which immediately snaps a player out of the game, hearing someone else speak for you) and not being able to entirely choose what you are saying. It just builds up and up about this story being about some random person and that you as a player, don't even really need to be there. If I wanted to watch someone else's story play out, I would watch a Game of Thrones, same effect but of a far greater quality. The game tries to make you care about Hawke's family which is a neat idea, maybe you as a player dont get to influence the character but instead get to influence the world around him right? You get to change Kirkwall based upon your actions aswell? Unfortunately that just leads onto the next problem.
The Illusion of choice. Everyone knows that this has to exist in video games to some degree but Dragon Age 2 does a particularly poor job of disguising it. At no point did I as a player feel like I could influence events (examples below in spoiler tags), your just an observer of events
Your family member is removed from play in the deep roads, no matter what you do.
Someone mentioned it before but many plot devices are uncontrollable and your forced to sit there and take it e.g. Petrice, Javaris, Grace.
The entire third act is irrelevent, you will fight the Templars and the Mages, the mages will be blood mages for....no particular reason, since you seem perfectly capable of holding off the templars beforehand.
Someone mentioned it before but many plot devices are uncontrollable and your forced to sit there and take it e.g. Petrice, Javaris, Grace.
The entire third act is irrelevent, you will fight the Templars and the Mages, the mages will be blood mages for....no particular reason, since you seem perfectly capable of holding off the templars beforehand.
The story's pacing is such an absolute mess. The game feels like its 3 table top roleplaying campaigns, each with they're own individual climax's, they even follow the convention of having plot device of first story causing 3rd act climax. Its a great 'idea' and intially reminded me of what was done at the start of Baldur's Gate 2, one core city and the surrounding lands, you need to get x sum of money to continue plot forcing players to explore their surroundings. Problem is, at the end of each act, all tension and drama is resolved and the player moves up in the world. Honestly they feel like 3 side plots in a game, they dont last long enough or provide enough focus their key issues in the limelight or allow the player to explore them. The treasure hunt is necessary....why? They need to hide from the templars they say? Seems like me firing off magic bolts in the street would kinda give myself away but whatever, also since when does money protect mages from templars? Nobility maybe but seems like the templars particularly in Kirkwall are an authority unto themselves. The Quanri seem to have a very silly approach to everything, I get 'me warrior code! Me morally superior to you!' thing they have going but ultimately they seem to spend absolutely no time looking for what their after, simply sitting on their asses. Seems Isabella's 'friends' are ludicrously good at laying low in a fairly confined city. Also, Isabella will run away even if you tell her she can have the book, which seems kind of dumb. Atleast they allowed her to comeback but Im not entirely sure what causes that, i assumed it was you reputation with her. Again, the climax comes with very little relationship to your adventures as you charge into the palace and save the day. Just as again it does with the mages as you spend a large deal of time doing a variety of sidequests which you MUST complete regardless of your feelings on the issue. Im a mage, why am I doing a job for the templars?
The combat. Some like it, fine but considering this is a game built upon a pause and play system, I would atleast think that tactics actually mattered. Unfortunately this game turns into nothing but a resource management game if you decide to play it that way. The wave based nature of every combat means that positioning is entirely meaningless and your simply trying to figure out how many resources you need to spend to win the fight (knowning that you need to save some for wave 2 which is light spam enemies and wave 3 which is moderate enemies led by a yellow). It just got really stale really fast, even fight became an absolute slog and all the enemies were practically identical. You got your archers, melee, buffers, assassins (assassin templars in their massive plate armour is perhaps the funniest/stupidest thing I have seen in a long time) and the mages or the, IMMEDIATELY SHIELDBASH THIS GUY class. I never felt like I was playing smart but simply trying to Game the game, by figuring out what was missing in each wave that they were going to throw at me next wave. After going through literally hundreds of random street thugs who were apparently more powerful than battle hardened elite Quanri warriors.
You can like or dislike the characters as much as you want, personally I only found 2 characters interesting, Varic because he atleast voiced his opinion, and im always a fan of a smartass. Also Isabella, she is the definition of an adventurer, a person who makes her own decisions, right or wrong and deals with the consequences. She asks the player at one point if, after all of this is done, that you run off with her as her First Mate, explore the land for fortune and adventure. That's the game I would have liked to play, one where I was free to make my own path, and have my own story told, not to watch Hawke's.
No, for me, it was alright and I'm a PC gamer, so I don't see why everyone is hating the game(aside from the copy-paste environments).
I liked the game overall, and I am going out on a limb and assuming that everyone here has played it, but I'll just put up a spoiler warning just in case!
-SPOILER ALERT-
Combat: The combat was alright, amazing even, but it did have its hiccups, such as the skill trees, I mean, I would have just a few skills I would use to wipe out a lot of guys, while others were completely useless to me. In my time playing, five runs through the game choosing polar opposite choices, I prefered the rogue over everything else, the mage and warrior were alright, but their skills were kind of lack-luster to me, and having sustainable skills became very hard to discern from instant skills when switching between characters.
Classes: The classes were awesome, though the only thing that changed was who came with you when going to Kirkwall, if you were a warrior or rogue, then it was Bethany, if you were a mage, you were stuck with Carver. I would have preferred being a mage and taking Beth along, or being a warrior or rogue and taking Carver with me, but that's besides the point. Everyone of the classes had nice skill trees, even though some became basicly useless when you maxed out most everything else. Even the spec classes were kind of stupid, but just for kicks I played a Templar and sided with the mages, or played as a Blood mage and a Spirit Healer at the same time.
Areas: This is one of the things I forgave about DA2, there were only a few maps for the dungeons, but that didn't make it bad, filling it with different enemeies, and goodies made them fun. The only part I didn't like was when you would run around Kirkwall every few years for new quests, finding where everything was again, and doing the same things did get tedious after a while, but I forgave it since the game was pushed out pretty fast.
Characters: Here is where things get a bit dicy, now I liked most of the characters, Varric always won the 'free hug' award, and Merrill was adorable, but all in all, the character flaws were a bit crippling.
Anders: With Anders he became more and more obsessed with killing the templars, and later in the game I really wish I could get him to shut up about the 'plight of the mages' I can understand being opressed and all that, sheesh, my family is opressing, but for the love of the Maker he should have taken it like a man, and if he didn't like it, then he should have left! Having a mage-come-terrorist wouldn't help mages in the least!
Isabelle: I didn't have a major problem with her, she was a theif, and almost a prostitute, but she didn't obsess over everything except for saving her own hide, which is done very well near the end of the game, with her pronouncing her love and faithfulness to you, along with you getting a nice amount of loot from her mission.
Merrill: I loved Merrill, she was adorable, awkward, everything you want in a fantasy game girl, but her major flaw, and what tore all of her cuteness away was that mirror! I couldn't stand the effing thing, and the more and more she wanted to fix it, the more I wanted to see how it would work flying off a cliff. I even had the choice of helping her fix it, but because I was the nice guy, I gave her the tool to fix it with, instead of pawning it like my instincts told me to. It was fun to be around her, but most of her talk involved justifying Blood Magic, and her mirror...Though when around Isabelle the hilarity ensued.
Varric: Alright, Verric was awesome, through and through, he had no major flaws, and he was always awesome to be around, when you switch out your characters, I always kept him as a teammate, because no matter what I did, as long as we got coin in the end, he was happy. The only crippling thing was when we came to the idol, and his brother, both were resolved easily, and he chilled out after that, so Varric= +10 to awesomeness.
Fenris: Now Fenris was one of the characters I liked the most, along with Merrill, Isabelle, and Varric. Fenris didn't whine a lot about his time as a slave, and he didn't try to kill the mages on your team, he may have been a bit moody at times, but I was able to forgive him because he was characterized very well, and his major flaws were covered up by him being an all-around good person to be with, especially if you are a mage, it may seem crazy to say that, but he'll be the best friend you have on there.
Aveline: I just didn't care all that mch for Aveline, she didn't have any obsessions, but not anything to make her a particularly good character to me, there was that instance in the second part of the game that was funny, but other than that, there wasn't anything else outstanding about her.
Dalish elves: Now here is something I hated even more than Anders, the Dalish. In Origins, they were a nice people, they were wary of you, and that was understandable. Now in this game you are around Dalish that are openly hostile to you, and try their best to not speak to you. Again, it's justifyable, but I just really hated how they looked like they had a permenant scowl, and looked down on everyone, and with Merethari there, the elf from the first game with which you made the Keeper of her clan, it just seemed like she had lost everything the other game had given her, shewasn't trying to bring peace between elves and humans, if anything she was sitting back and letting things happen.
Meridith: Now I'm not gonna talk about Orsino, because he is just kind of there, but Meridith needs some talking about. With Meridith some people would see her as opressive and all that, but it was justifiable because she saw there as being no other way to keep the mages in check, and after hearing about some of her past, I really did feel bad for her and wanted to help her a lot. It didn't help that the idol appeared, but as bad as she was, it's mostly the idol's fault.
Qunari: The qunari are awesome, no vital flaws or anything like that, what they did, they did out of the need for the Qun, and it raised a hot topic for religious extremes. The people, and some of the chantry feared them, even though they were just squatting near the docks, and they wouldn't have made a move had it not been for people pushing them on all sides, forcing them to act.
-END-
Well there's my rant about the game, in short, it was good, but still had major flaws, it's equal to that of DA:O mostly because with all the flaws this game had, DA:O had one major one that made me despise the game, and please, tell me if I am correct here, but didn't you get tired of going through the Sloth Demon's lair in the Mage's Tower?
-SPOILER ALERT-
Combat: The combat was alright, amazing even, but it did have its hiccups, such as the skill trees, I mean, I would have just a few skills I would use to wipe out a lot of guys, while others were completely useless to me. In my time playing, five runs through the game choosing polar opposite choices, I prefered the rogue over everything else, the mage and warrior were alright, but their skills were kind of lack-luster to me, and having sustainable skills became very hard to discern from instant skills when switching between characters.
Classes: The classes were awesome, though the only thing that changed was who came with you when going to Kirkwall, if you were a warrior or rogue, then it was Bethany, if you were a mage, you were stuck with Carver. I would have preferred being a mage and taking Beth along, or being a warrior or rogue and taking Carver with me, but that's besides the point. Everyone of the classes had nice skill trees, even though some became basicly useless when you maxed out most everything else. Even the spec classes were kind of stupid, but just for kicks I played a Templar and sided with the mages, or played as a Blood mage and a Spirit Healer at the same time.
Areas: This is one of the things I forgave about DA2, there were only a few maps for the dungeons, but that didn't make it bad, filling it with different enemeies, and goodies made them fun. The only part I didn't like was when you would run around Kirkwall every few years for new quests, finding where everything was again, and doing the same things did get tedious after a while, but I forgave it since the game was pushed out pretty fast.
Characters: Here is where things get a bit dicy, now I liked most of the characters, Varric always won the 'free hug' award, and Merrill was adorable, but all in all, the character flaws were a bit crippling.
Anders: With Anders he became more and more obsessed with killing the templars, and later in the game I really wish I could get him to shut up about the 'plight of the mages' I can understand being opressed and all that, sheesh, my family is opressing, but for the love of the Maker he should have taken it like a man, and if he didn't like it, then he should have left! Having a mage-come-terrorist wouldn't help mages in the least!
Isabelle: I didn't have a major problem with her, she was a theif, and almost a prostitute, but she didn't obsess over everything except for saving her own hide, which is done very well near the end of the game, with her pronouncing her love and faithfulness to you, along with you getting a nice amount of loot from her mission.
Merrill: I loved Merrill, she was adorable, awkward, everything you want in a fantasy game girl, but her major flaw, and what tore all of her cuteness away was that mirror! I couldn't stand the effing thing, and the more and more she wanted to fix it, the more I wanted to see how it would work flying off a cliff. I even had the choice of helping her fix it, but because I was the nice guy, I gave her the tool to fix it with, instead of pawning it like my instincts told me to. It was fun to be around her, but most of her talk involved justifying Blood Magic, and her mirror...Though when around Isabelle the hilarity ensued.
Varric: Alright, Verric was awesome, through and through, he had no major flaws, and he was always awesome to be around, when you switch out your characters, I always kept him as a teammate, because no matter what I did, as long as we got coin in the end, he was happy. The only crippling thing was when we came to the idol, and his brother, both were resolved easily, and he chilled out after that, so Varric= +10 to awesomeness.
Fenris: Now Fenris was one of the characters I liked the most, along with Merrill, Isabelle, and Varric. Fenris didn't whine a lot about his time as a slave, and he didn't try to kill the mages on your team, he may have been a bit moody at times, but I was able to forgive him because he was characterized very well, and his major flaws were covered up by him being an all-around good person to be with, especially if you are a mage, it may seem crazy to say that, but he'll be the best friend you have on there.
Aveline: I just didn't care all that mch for Aveline, she didn't have any obsessions, but not anything to make her a particularly good character to me, there was that instance in the second part of the game that was funny, but other than that, there wasn't anything else outstanding about her.
Dalish elves: Now here is something I hated even more than Anders, the Dalish. In Origins, they were a nice people, they were wary of you, and that was understandable. Now in this game you are around Dalish that are openly hostile to you, and try their best to not speak to you. Again, it's justifyable, but I just really hated how they looked like they had a permenant scowl, and looked down on everyone, and with Merethari there, the elf from the first game with which you made the Keeper of her clan, it just seemed like she had lost everything the other game had given her, shewasn't trying to bring peace between elves and humans, if anything she was sitting back and letting things happen.
Meridith: Now I'm not gonna talk about Orsino, because he is just kind of there, but Meridith needs some talking about. With Meridith some people would see her as opressive and all that, but it was justifiable because she saw there as being no other way to keep the mages in check, and after hearing about some of her past, I really did feel bad for her and wanted to help her a lot. It didn't help that the idol appeared, but as bad as she was, it's mostly the idol's fault.
Qunari: The qunari are awesome, no vital flaws or anything like that, what they did, they did out of the need for the Qun, and it raised a hot topic for religious extremes. The people, and some of the chantry feared them, even though they were just squatting near the docks, and they wouldn't have made a move had it not been for people pushing them on all sides, forcing them to act.
-END-
Well there's my rant about the game, in short, it was good, but still had major flaws, it's equal to that of DA:O mostly because with all the flaws this game had, DA:O had one major one that made me despise the game, and please, tell me if I am correct here, but didn't you get tired of going through the Sloth Demon's lair in the Mage's Tower?
They were basically saying "They're just whining because it's DIFFERENT. ONOES."Hammeroj said:
Once again, I haven't played it yet and may come back in a couple months and smash it if it really fails.
But really, If I can handle ME2's "streamlining" (Haha), I will still probably enjoy DA2.
First of all, I'm going to admit to not thinking that Origin's was all that great. I see people compare it to BG I/II (Two, seriously people?? BG II???) and I think that comparison is pretty unwarrented. In fact, I just got BG II again from Good ol Games and even in the first couple hours of game play you're way more invested in the story than in DA:O.
Anyway, I'm getting off topic here... sorry.
So like, yes - DA:A (DA:2?) is a pretty bad game all around. The writing is really poor, especially considering it's all original IP, with published material and a full time writer devoted to it. I can't fathom how they managed to screw it up so badly. Also, the game mechanics are down right terrible. Randomly spawning into combat monster? Stats and equipment are practically on-rails the entire game (Stats and loot tweaking are about 50% of the fun of most RPG's - way to screw it up Bioware) and the bloodly MINDLESS BUTTON SMASHING.
If you're going to make a game that you can complete by hitting one button in rapid succession ad-infintum, then don't expect me to give you high marks for it.
Really, I regret buying this game. I got bored with it far faster than I did with DA:O, by a factor of like 10. Yes, I did complete it, but I distinct recall feeling like, "So.. that's it huh?" and yes, that really was it.
I now find myself in the position of never wanting to blindly buy another Bioware title, it was that bad, and I'm frightened that ME 3 is going to stink on ice and very dubious about their Star Wars RPG that I was previously really anticipating.
Now, if Blizzard screws up Diablo 3 to make it "console friendly" or some crap, then I am just going to stick to indie games.
I feel like some grumpy old man shaking his fist at the sky, but seriously... gaming has gotten worse over the last few years than ever before. It's like every company is shooting for some magical meridian where they can make a game just good enough to sell a few million console units, and not really caring if the game is actually great.
If this is what the democratization of gaming has brought to us, then I don't really want any part of it. It sucks.
Anyway, I'm getting off topic here... sorry.
So like, yes - DA:A (DA:2?) is a pretty bad game all around. The writing is really poor, especially considering it's all original IP, with published material and a full time writer devoted to it. I can't fathom how they managed to screw it up so badly. Also, the game mechanics are down right terrible. Randomly spawning into combat monster? Stats and equipment are practically on-rails the entire game (Stats and loot tweaking are about 50% of the fun of most RPG's - way to screw it up Bioware) and the bloodly MINDLESS BUTTON SMASHING.
If you're going to make a game that you can complete by hitting one button in rapid succession ad-infintum, then don't expect me to give you high marks for it.
Really, I regret buying this game. I got bored with it far faster than I did with DA:O, by a factor of like 10. Yes, I did complete it, but I distinct recall feeling like, "So.. that's it huh?" and yes, that really was it.
I now find myself in the position of never wanting to blindly buy another Bioware title, it was that bad, and I'm frightened that ME 3 is going to stink on ice and very dubious about their Star Wars RPG that I was previously really anticipating.
Now, if Blizzard screws up Diablo 3 to make it "console friendly" or some crap, then I am just going to stick to indie games.
I feel like some grumpy old man shaking his fist at the sky, but seriously... gaming has gotten worse over the last few years than ever before. It's like every company is shooting for some magical meridian where they can make a game just good enough to sell a few million console units, and not really caring if the game is actually great.
If this is what the democratization of gaming has brought to us, then I don't really want any part of it. It sucks.
They turned our beloved DA:O into Mass Effect without guns. Really, it was stupid, stupid, STUPID.
So fine, I'm gonna rip on DA2. I'm gonna rip on it a lot.
1: Combat was dumbed down. Everything was hack n slash now, without any real need for tacticts.
2: Difficulty above normal didn't add a challenge, just cheap shit like enemies spawning right behind you and one-shotting your mages. Too easy on Normal, too bullshit on Hard/Nightmare.
3: Recycling of the same caves, over and over again? Lame. But we all know this.
4: Fucking up the conversation-system? Really? I LOVED being able to read what odd stuff my character could say, and having plenty to pick from (like in Fallout). Half the fun of conversations were just seeing what odd phrases the writers had put in there for our enjoyment. Now you get THREE options, and most of the time, what you click isn't even what he/she is going to say.
5: Death-animations were crap. Instead of fairly logical and realistic deaths that felt a bit cinematic, now they all explode like a bag of blood.
6: What, I can't equip my party? I CAN'T FUCKING EQUIP MY PARTY? So basically, except for rings and trinkets and weapons, all gear that drops that my main-character can't use is pointless and wasted. Gotta love killing a boss, only to see that NOONE in your party can wear those two pieces of great armor, because you've taken the wrong class as player-character.
7: What, no specializations? Only one fixed specialization for every party-member?
8: Can't talk to my NPC-partymembers whenever I want, just in scripted events. Fuck right off.
9: The GOD DAMN random spawning enemies. It's like the game wee's in your face every time you try to plan a combat-strategy. No matter what, something will spawn behind your defensive line. Like Shades. Always the fucking Shades.
..Really, I can go on quite awhile. The game was so poor I abandoned it about half-way, and I haven't even seen the "cliffhanger-ending". I doubt it was any good.
I don't mind the retcons, though I can see others do. The only real improvements were the increased talent-trees and slight graphics.
So fine, I'm gonna rip on DA2. I'm gonna rip on it a lot.
1: Combat was dumbed down. Everything was hack n slash now, without any real need for tacticts.
2: Difficulty above normal didn't add a challenge, just cheap shit like enemies spawning right behind you and one-shotting your mages. Too easy on Normal, too bullshit on Hard/Nightmare.
3: Recycling of the same caves, over and over again? Lame. But we all know this.
4: Fucking up the conversation-system? Really? I LOVED being able to read what odd stuff my character could say, and having plenty to pick from (like in Fallout). Half the fun of conversations were just seeing what odd phrases the writers had put in there for our enjoyment. Now you get THREE options, and most of the time, what you click isn't even what he/she is going to say.
5: Death-animations were crap. Instead of fairly logical and realistic deaths that felt a bit cinematic, now they all explode like a bag of blood.
6: What, I can't equip my party? I CAN'T FUCKING EQUIP MY PARTY? So basically, except for rings and trinkets and weapons, all gear that drops that my main-character can't use is pointless and wasted. Gotta love killing a boss, only to see that NOONE in your party can wear those two pieces of great armor, because you've taken the wrong class as player-character.
7: What, no specializations? Only one fixed specialization for every party-member?
8: Can't talk to my NPC-partymembers whenever I want, just in scripted events. Fuck right off.
9: The GOD DAMN random spawning enemies. It's like the game wee's in your face every time you try to plan a combat-strategy. No matter what, something will spawn behind your defensive line. Like Shades. Always the fucking Shades.
..Really, I can go on quite awhile. The game was so poor I abandoned it about half-way, and I haven't even seen the "cliffhanger-ending". I doubt it was any good.
I don't mind the retcons, though I can see others do. The only real improvements were the increased talent-trees and slight graphics.
First of all, I really liked Dragon Age 2. I thought it was really well done, and IMO all that hate was entirely misplaced.woodaba said:But: was it really that awful?
I was just wondering if any of my fellow Escapists felt the same way, and those who do not, I would like to hear your perspective on the game
Secondly, after playing all the way through DA2, I went back and tried to play some DA:O. And you know what? It was clunky and not nearly as fun as I remembered. DA2 is just so smooth and intututive - I can't imagine how anyone thinks DA:O is better mechanically. I can understand DA2's story not being some people's cup of tea (I thought it worked, but again, that's me) but the people who pan the gameplay make no sense at all to me. DA2 is probably the best fantasy RPG I have ever played mechanically, with great characters, a great story...
And admittedly lazy dungeon design. That didn't bother me, but it was hard to not notice it.
Because we love complicated RPG-games with a lot of micromanaging and planning. Othervise, we would be playing Diablo 2 still.Bara_no_Hime said:DA2 is just so smooth and intututive - I can't imagine how anyone thinks DA:O is better mechanically.woodaba said:But: was it really that awful?
I was just wondering if any of my fellow Escapists felt the same way, and those who do not, I would like to hear your perspective on the game
DA:2 was hardly a RPG, only if you allow modern-day RPG standards.
It was a disappointment, but that's because it was so rushed. It was the copy pasted rooms that really did it for me, it just felt so lazy and cheap. No one should pay £30 and get a 30 hour long game of going in and out 7 different copy-pasted rooms and just be happy about it and I don't blame people for being really pissed off about the way it turned out.
But there was more than just the copy-pasted rooms that annoyed me, the characters weren't that great, Varric and Merrill were the only ones I liked, the gore was handled immaturely compared to the first game. People don't explode into a bloody pulp when you hit them with a sword it just looked stupid. The combat was a bit over the top like Hawke as a melee class dashing 15 ft forward and slashing an enemy like he'd just nicked commando pro from MW2.
But despite it's flaws and how disappointing it was compared to Origins it was still fun I suppose. I have to admit though the DLC does look good.
But there was more than just the copy-pasted rooms that annoyed me, the characters weren't that great, Varric and Merrill were the only ones I liked, the gore was handled immaturely compared to the first game. People don't explode into a bloody pulp when you hit them with a sword it just looked stupid. The combat was a bit over the top like Hawke as a melee class dashing 15 ft forward and slashing an enemy like he'd just nicked commando pro from MW2.
But despite it's flaws and how disappointing it was compared to Origins it was still fun I suppose. I have to admit though the DLC does look good.
I micromanaged my entire party, pausing the game and controlling them all. I picked their abilities, and who they would use them on. In that, the game was no different than DA:O or KotOR.Realitycrash said:
On character customization... it was EXACTLY THE SAME as DA:O, except that the abilities were presented slightly differently... and there were more of them.
Your answer is the same idiotic crap that got posted on review sites, and it is entirely untrue. Dragon Age 2 was fully complex and fully realized.
Lol?Bara_no_Hime said:
Try equiping any armor to your NPC:s.
And sure, you CAN micromanage the party in DA2, you just don't NEED to. I ran ahead with a melee and slaughtered everything, until the bullshit respawning enemies appeared right behind my casters.
And yes, It's the same complaints that everyone posts..Maybe because everyone noticed them, and are sick of it?
Want some original complaints? Okey. This one is applied for Dragon Age: Origins as well; I wish they would reduce the chest-size of the females in the game. They are utterly ridiculous and I fail to see the point with them (especially Isabella's huuuuge knockers). Actually, it's as close as I can come to feeling slightly offended over a videogame, and I'm a man.
Really, I want to play an immersive RPG, not jack off to cartoon-porn (and yes, I know it's not porn, but I fail to see any other reason with giving every female chest-size: gargantuan if not to arouse men).
But, this one can be applied for DA:O as well, so I guess it's null and void.
Wait, what!? Dragon age: Origins was IMO, not a good game. It had a story that was obvious to anyone. The characters weren't half as good as the ones in DA2. I hated Alistair and wished him dead, only to find out he could become the king. Luckily, I could make him sacrifice himself. Though since I didn't have my save file in DA2, I chose he was exiled and later found him all pathetic in the inn and I loved that.woodaba said:
. The dungeons were lazily designed, but jesus, that was the only problem and you spent more than half of the game in Kirkwall anyway. In any case, I hated DA:O and didn't think DA2 would be a good game, which made me hesitate to buy it, but Hawke was much better than that grey warden in the first game. DA2 made me laugh several times, I find it rare that a game makes me laugh. Hawke was hilarious. In short, DA:O is dissapointing, but DA2 changed that, since it had much better characters and story.I thought it was fun. really fun. In some cases I felt the companions in 2 were better than one. No "Breaking down the emotional wall" for Morrigan however, so that kinda sucked. It felt like, as long as you dont look too hard (Wave spawning, repeated dungeons, NOT BEING ABLE TO ARM YOUR COMPANIONS!!) Its a good game. a fun diversion.
I like the characters in DA2 more than the characters in Origins (for the most part). There's also less of a feeling of wandering around the world map in order to fill up time in 2.
The combat systems were radically different, but I don't really prefer one over the other, so I'm not bothered.
The combat systems were radically different, but I don't really prefer one over the other, so I'm not bothered.