Watchdogs - wasted potential?

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Blackpapa

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I saw some watchdogs footage recently.

I was hoping for a game like Blood Money meets Uplink in a free-roam GTA-esque world. You know, dress up as a Comcast technician to tap your target's local network, steal an ID badge, ambush the admin and beat the passwords out of him, setup your own botnet by manually infecting machines.. stay low because the establishment has a score to settle with you.. All the while evading your opposition because you're way outgunned.

Nope. Run BALCKOUT_LOL.APK - Adan Pierce probably got it from a website with a green-black color scheme, courier font and lots of spinning skull and radiation warning gifs. Run people over, cause mayhem, hacking is just a theme of your superpower, not mechanically relevant.

This game has all the hallmarks of "It would've been a classic if only it wasn't bastardized". And since Ubisoft hates modders, nobody ain't gonna fix it.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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from the reviews, it sounds like we're getting another Assassin's Creed situation: a game with a LOAD of potential, put unfortunately the finished product is more of a glorified tech demo that's meant to showcase "next-gen" capabilities. Seems like there going to need another entry to iron out a lot of kinks and hit their stride.
 

Smooth Operator

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Well it does seem like they could pull something grand out of the concept, but as their first attempt they at least got the basics down and got to about a first timers GTA game.

But if they ever really pull it together and like OP said make it a cross of complex hacking to prep the scene and then use those resources to execute things by plan that shit would be off the chain, then I would swallow my pride and buy another Ubi game.
 

Blackpapa

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Aiddon said:
from the reviews, it sounds like we're getting another Assassin's Creed situation: a game with a LOAD of potential, put unfortunately the finished product is more of a glorified tech demo that's meant to showcase "next-gen" capabilities. Seems like there going to need another entry to iron out a lot of kinks and hit their stride.
If you're going to showcase next-gen tech, you probably want a tight engine to show off. This is not a lean, tight engine and neither are the visuals good enough to justify the hardware requirements.

What I mean is that they've picked up a cool concept but instead of building a game around it, they used it as a wallpaper over a competent but otherwise unremarkable GTA competitor.

Watchdogs tried to differentiate itself as being the more "darker" and "deeper" game. Yet it looks like they've did little with the subject matter - DXHR had more mechanics centered about hacking this game about a vigilante hacker.

There's place for superpower games - infamous, because LOL bioengineering. Here, I was hoping for a more serious and realistic approach instead of LOL MAGIC HAX
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Sep 8, 2011
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The problem with Ubisoft is that they keep applying the same gameplay mechanics to every game they make. That's not good game design. That's lazy game design. Of course it's going to feel like a lot of wasted potential when instead of thinking of something original, they take things that they already made in one of their previous games and paste it into a title that is supposed to be completely different.
 

SonicWaffle

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Adam Jensen said:
The problem with Ubisoft is that they keep applying the same gameplay mechanics to every game they make. That's not good game design. That's lazy game design. Of course it's going to feel like a lot of wasted potential when instead of thinking of something original, they take things that they already made in one of their previous games and paste it into a title that is supposed to be completely different.
While I agree to an extent - Watch_Dogs certainly feels like an amalgam of previous titles - to give Ubi credit they do at least switch it up and add new things. While they do carry over a lot of things like control styles and gameplay elements, they also introduce new things each time. I'm a fan of the AC series, and I think Black Flag is by far the best because it takes an almost totally new (it featured in ACIII but who cared?) direction with the sailing.

I guess the attitude is that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you have a style that you know will sell copies, why risk those sales by experimenting with something wholly new when you can just modify what was already successful? Not exactly an adventurous or risky attitude, but given the exorbitant costs of making a AAA game nowadays I can't really blame them for not going all the way out on a limb. At least they're edging further out onto the limb with each game.
 

endtherapture

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Blackpapa said:
I saw some watchdogs footage recently.

I was hoping for a game like Blood Money meets Uplink in a free-roam GTA-esque world. You know, dress up as a Comcast technician to tap your target's local network, steal an ID badge, ambush the admin and beat the passwords out of him, setup your own botnet by manually infecting machines.. stay low because the establishment has a score to settle with you.. All the while evading your opposition because you're way outgunned.

Nope. Run BALCKOUT_LOL.APK - Adan Pierce probably got it from a website with a green-black color scheme, courier font and lots of spinning skull and radiation warning gifs. Run people over, cause mayhem, hacking is just a theme of your superpower, not mechanically relevant.

This game has all the hallmarks of "It would've been a classic if only it wasn't bastardized". And since Ubisoft hates modders, nobody ain't gonna fix it.
When I first saw the concept I was hoping it'd be somewhat like an open-world Deus Ex Human Revolution - rehack security systems to help you in your stealth missions and stuff. But hearing it compared to Assassin's Creed makes me sad.
 

DaWaffledude

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Honestly, I'm confused by how disappointed people seem to be with the hacking mechanics. They showed how it worked from the first bit of gameplay footage. Why is this suddenly a surprise?
 

carnex

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Jan 9, 2008
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I have to second Waffle. From the first trailer it was shown that hacking will not require any further interaction after pressing one button. And since they went for an action game it's really the only choice, anything else would interrupt action.

Now, would it be better if it was more methodical? Maybe, but it would most likely reduce the audience for game too.
 

Sarcasm.

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Knowing Ubisoft we'll see a trailer for the sequel before the year is up. I wish the story for the game was more bad ass, I thought it was going the route of "We need overthrow this oppressive and intrusive government that erased privacy and harasses their powers"-blablabla, and then it instead went on the a combination of Splinter Cell story lines with very few original ideas.
 

SonicWaffle

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Ultratwinkie said:
Watch dogs started out as a driver game, or at least a racing game. Its engine shows that it still had some heritage to a cancelled racing game.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/12/27/watch-dogs-engine-originally-built-for-a-racing-game/

Watch Dogs is a frankenstein's monster. It has more stolen parts than a chop shop. There was no way they'd be able to do what you just said with this mish mashed system.

It was doomed from the start. It wasn't built originally as a hacker game, it was a bare bones racing game.
Seriously?

SERIOUSLY?!

The driving in Watch_Dogs is utterly abysmal. The fucking Mako was a better ride than almost anything I've run across in the game so far. All I can say is that if this engine was originally built for a racing game, someone out there really shouldn't be allowed to make games anymore.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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Blackpapa said:
If you're going to showcase next-gen tech, you probably want a tight engine to show off. This is not a lean, tight engine and neither are the visuals good enough to justify the hardware requirements.

What I mean is that they've picked up a cool concept but instead of building a game around it, they used it as a wallpaper over a competent but otherwise unremarkable GTA competitor.

Watchdogs tried to differentiate itself as being the more "darker" and "deeper" game. Yet it looks like they've did little with the subject matter - DXHR had more mechanics centered about hacking this game about a vigilante hacker.

There's place for superpower games - infamous, because LOL bioengineering. Here, I was hoping for a more serious and realistic approach instead of LOL MAGIC HAX
Welcome to the first year of new hardware; nothing in the first year is going to light the world on fire because of people having to get used to the kinks of the new systems. Ubisoft TRIED to use this to justify the new stuff and it seems like they failed for the time being. They didn't base it around hacking because that would take a LOT more time and effort than just bumping up the quality of the textures.
 

pilouuuu

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Well, AssCreed 1 was incredibly boring and FarCry 1 and 2 were deeply flawed, so maybe Watch Dogs 2 will be much better. Ubisoft gets better with sequels.

Watch Dogs is a flawed good idea.
 

Roofstone

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Personally I've been having a great time with it, it is awesome non-stop fun no matter what I do. Be it story, crime fighting or simply having a walk down the street.

If they make another one and it is even better it'll be darn awesome!
 

Easton Dark

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pilouuuu said:
Well, AssCreed 1 was incredibly boring and FarCry 1 and 2 were deeply flawed, so maybe Watch Dogs 2 will be much better. Ubisoft gets better with sequels.
Well they didn't make Farcry 1, and Assassin's Creed 3 is considered the worst of them all.

They can hit or miss.
 

DEAD34345

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It's exactly as I expected from Ubisoft. It works perfectly fine as a game, it's fairly pretty, it's even vaguely fun, but it does absolutely nothing new or interesting. If I wasn't the kind of person who plays a lot of games I'd think it was incredible, as it stands however all I can think is "Been there, done that", and I'm already bored of it. Luckily I got it for my brother, and he seems to enjoy it at least.

I can't even look forward to a sequel, really. This is Ubisoft, so they're only going to release the same game another dozen times. Bleh.
 

vIRL Nightmare

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I think we're going to get another saint's row with this. Slow if not sub par start that turns into something impressive and fun. The only major problem is the driving mechanics on anything not a motorcycle. Other wise it is a littering of really good ideas that weren't quite executed correctly.
 

Windcaler

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Having been playing the game off and on over the last day I have some mixed feelings about it. Although it needs to be said Im probably only 10 hours or so into the game. However the bottom line is I do enjoy it.

My biggest problem with the game is that we have to play as Aiden pierce instead of being able to create our own character. I just dont see a reason why we couldnt have a character creator to put our own avatars in. It makes sense to have a single character tell their story in assassin's creed but not really for watch dogs. Maybe this will change down the road but I doubt it.

Sometimes the hacking does feel like its a magic superpower due to how easily you can use it in most situations. Some hacking effects like blown steam valves dont even make a lot of sense though. I know "everything is supposed to have computer chips" in their world but really, blowing up a steam valve from your phone just shatters my suspension of disbelief. It reminds me of a really bad movie where there was this master hacker killing people by injecting them with something everytime someone went to their site. Then later he somehow stops the detectives car and locks her in because of the computer in it. Theyre very silly premises really and I feel like rather then this stuff we could have been given a larger variety of traps to lay. I get what they were going for I just feel it could have been done better without going onto the funny farm

The gunplay is, I feel, good and bad but mostly bad. Its very reminiscent of Alpha protocols stealth gunplay without the strong run and gun elements of it or weapon specialization (which is good). The problem is the active firefights become more tedious then fun. Also on that note, I really dislike anytime a game lets me play a stealthy character and then through no fault of my own forces me into a gunfight because the story demands it and Watch dogs has done that...I want to say twice so far. If I screw up ok make there be consequences for my screw up. Dont force me to fight a bunch of bad guys because the game/story says its time to do it. Dont punish me for the characters screw up and then demand I bail them out of it.

The driving is...driving. I really dont know what to say there. The driving by itself is as medicore as open world driving gets. Yes you can hack things like steam vents and traffic lights while driving which is cool but the driving is still just driving. Edit: Something I forgot to mention about driving is theres a 1st person camera for driving which for me makes the game feel a lot more immersive. First person driving also feels much more accurate then the third person camera

I do like the player invasions though. Its very dark souls esque in a player can invade you and you bsicly have to chase them down. I had an invader come in which lead to a cross city chase as both of us were trying to use the various hacking tools to stop the other. IMO its one of the most interesting things the game has to offer

The police system is bloody strange though. There was a point where I went in to take out a gang and someone called the police when they heard gun shots. The police showed up while Im fighting these gangsters and what do they do? Start shooting at ME! It was just a WTF moment, here we had gangsters armed with clearly illegal weaponry while I have a 1911 (a legal firearm that I presumably purchased legally) and their first instinct is get the guy with the pistol instead of the guys with automatic weapons and gang tattoo's/colors. There are also cases where when you steal an occupied car the person will call the police but if I back into them slowly they'll suddenly forget about the police and the call never goes through. However during an invasion I accidently drove through what I assume with a news stand, murder 5 or 6 people, run from the scene and no cops were called. Not only that but when the police do show up they often shoot on sight. I can have no weapons out and they shoot at me rather then doing the lawful thing and trying to detain me without use of force.

Finally I have a problem with the game that I have in almost all of these open world games. I have a hard time playing it like its supposed to be played. Instead of going through the story missions I easily get sidetracked hunting down criminals, eliminating gangs, and queing up for invasions. However I think its a mark of a good open world game when you can get easily sidetracked. It means theres lots to do.

Is it wasted potential? Yeah I think so. It often goes into call of duty territory of its silliness where the laws of physics and logic dont apply. However, that doesnt mean its a bad game either. Its interesting enough and fun enough to have kept me interested so far.

IMO the best thing that could happen to the game right now is releasing modding tools because theres a ton of potential for mods in that game. However this is ubisoft so thats unlikely
 

Windcaler

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Ultratwinkie said:
Windcaler said:
Having been playing the game off and on over the last day I have some mixed feelings about it. Although it needs to be said Im probably only 10 hours or so into the game. However the bottom line is I do enjoy it.

My biggest problem with the game is that we have to play as Aiden pierce instead of being able to create our own character. I just dont see a reason why we couldnt have a character creator to put our own avatars in. It makes sense to have a single character tell their story in assassin's creed but not really for watch dogs. Maybe this will change down the road but I doubt it.

Sometimes the hacking does feel like its a magic superpower due to how easily you can use it in most situations. Some hacking effects like blown steam valves dont even make a lot of sense though. I know "everything is supposed to have computer chips" in their world but really, blowing up a steam valve from your phone just shatters my suspension of disbelief. It reminds me of a really bad movie where there was this master hacker killing people by injecting them with something everytime someone went to their site. Then later he somehow stops the detectives car and locks her in because of the computer in it. Theyre very silly premises really and I feel like rather then this stuff we could have been given a larger variety of traps to lay. I get what they were going for I just feel it could have been done better without going onto the funny farm

The gunplay is, I feel, good and bad but mostly bad. Its very reminiscent of Alpha protocols stealth gunplay without the strong run and gun elements of it or weapon specialization (which is good). The problem is the active firefights become more tedious then fun. Also on that note, I really dislike anytime a game lets me play a stealthy character and then through no fault of my own forces me into a gunfight because the story demands it and Watch dogs has done that...I want to say twice so far. If I screw up ok make there be consequences for my screw up. Dont force me to fight a bunch of bad guys because the game/story says its time to do it. Dont punish me for the characters screw up and then demand I bail them out of it.

The driving is...driving. I really dont know what to say there. The driving by itself is as medicore as open world driving gets. Yes you can hack things like steam vents and traffic lights while driving which is cool but the driving is still just driving.

I do like the player invasions though. Its very dark souls esque in a player can invade you and you bsicly have to chase them down. I had an invader come in which lead to a cross city chase as both of us were trying to use the various hacking tools to stop the other. IMO its one of the most interesting things the game has to offer

The police system is bloody strange though. There was a point where I went in to take out a gang and someone called the police when they heard gun shots. The police showed up while Im fighting these gangsters and what do they do? Start shooting at ME! It was just a WTF moment, here we had gangsters armed with clearly illegal weaponry while I have a 1911 (a legal firearm that I presumably purchased legally) and their first instinct is get the guy with the pistol instead of the guys with automatic weapons and gang tattoo's/colors. There are also cases where when you steal an occupied car the person will call the police but if I back into them slowly they'll suddenly forget about the police and the call never goes through. However during an invasion I accidently drove through what I assume with a news stand, murder 5 or 6 people, run from the scene and no cops were called. Not only that but when the police do show up they often shoot on sight. I can have no weapons out and they shoot at me rather then doing the lawful thing and trying to detain me without use of force.

Finally I have a problem with the game that I have in almost all of these open world games. I have a hard time playing it like its supposed to be played. Instead of going through the story missions I easily get sidetracked hunting down criminals, eliminating gangs, and queing up for invasions. However I think its a mark of a good open world game when you can get easily sidetracked. It means theres lots to do.

Is it wasted potential? Yeah I think so. It often goes into call of duty territory of its silliness where the laws of physics and logic dont apply. However, that doesnt mean its a bad game either. Its interesting enough and fun enough to have kept me interested so far.

IMO the best thing that could happen to the game right now is releasing modding tools because theres a ton of potential for mods in that game. However this is ubisoft so thats unlikely
Funny thing is, handguns are banned in chicago. It has strict gun laws to try to fight organized crime, but organized crime is still winning by sheer money power and influence.

Of course, they for some reason needed official gun shops instead of secret back alley shops like in GTA IV. Would make much more sense.

The cops don't care for gun shops selling illegal guns, gangs with illegal guns, but some matrix wannabe with a single handgun is the biggest threat to Chicago.

Of course, since they have about 5(?) studios working on it I wouldn't expect real thought put into it.
Interesting I didnt know chicago outright banned firearms. I wonder how they get away with that considering the second ammendment, but thats a different discussion.

With five studios working on the game I feel like just one of them should have been handling the police aspect to make them more realistic. This is supposed to be a darker and more realistic game. Assuming they dont know any better they could just call their local police station or meet with some police officers to go over what is legal behavoir in a variety of circumstances. As the game is the AI of the police officers makes them feel like token bad guys instead of actual cops