we need more 'intelligent' shooters

[seekeroftruth86]

Well, there's Metroid Prime, but even I don't know whether or not to call it a First Person Adventure game instead. I'm torn for some reason, even though it IS more based around puzzles than even the 2D Metroid games...

Metroid Prime is a game where you shoot enemies in a first person perspective. That's an FPS in my book. Incidentally, you also do a lot of thinking.

I can't believe Bioshock hasn't been mentioned yet. Deep storyline, not exactly Myst-level thinking but hardly mindless gameplay. Must be the "RPG elements."

And then there's Half-Life. Lots of objectives that are more than just kill the bad guys. Of course, if you've done one "stack the boxes" puzzle you've done them all...

 

[conzan]

Making people think? In these days? HAH.

Not gonna happen, and especially not with an FPS.

there are many games to make you think nowadays just most of them are either short or indie
or maybe you were just jumping on the "everyone nowadays is dumb" bandwagon

 

[Woodsey]

Well, there's Metroid Prime, but even I don't know whether or not to call it a First Person Adventure game instead. I'm torn for some reason, even though it IS more based around puzzles than even the 2D Metroid games...

Metroid Prime is a game where you shoot enemies in a first person perspective. That's an FPS in my book. Incidentally, you also do a lot of thinking.

I can't believe Bioshock hasn't been mentioned yet. Deep storyline, not exactly Myst-level thinking but hardly mindless gameplay. Must be the "RPG elements."

BioShock has some interesting themes and a well-developed back story, but I am yet to be convinced it's plot lasts for more than 5 minutes (5 minutes for the twist to happen in that is).

1. MGS is a stealth game.

2. If you feel like you're overpowered, try using a different tactic, and see how you approach the situation. Use the weakest weapon in the game, or decide to kill everything only with melees.

Seriously, try going through the Halo Reach mission Nightfall and use ONLY melee, and see whether or not that's "intelligent" enough for you.

Balancing shouldn't be left to the player to enforce upon themselves, and trying to go through a level of a game "using only melee" is not what he's getting at.

OT: Half Life 2.

Anyway, Human Revolution looks to be great, and whilst Deus Ex isn't an FPS (it's an RPG that you can shoot in), the third is a little more in that direction given how they're handling guns.

 

[Naheal]

1. MGS is a stealth game.

That's pretty much it. The main difference between a shooter and a stealth game is the amount of thought that you have to put forth. Think of it this way: in order to maximize your survival rate in a stealth game, you have to place yourself in a position where you have tactical advantage all the damned time and you must outsmart your opponents.

By comparison, a shooter is all about being twitchy.

Deus Ex

Deus Ex could easily turn into a stealth game if you played it right.

 

[herpaderpa]

1. MGS is a stealth game.

2. If you feel like you're overpowered, try using a different tactic, and see how you approach the situation. Use the weakest weapon in the game, or decide to kill everything only with melees.

Seriously, try going through the Halo Reach mission Nightfall and use ONLY melee, and see whether or not that's "intelligent" enough for you.

http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/news/blo...ms-up-with-waypoint-for-way-of-the-ninja/7634

This has to be the dumbest answer one could give. The OP is wishing for a more immersible, well thought out, and an ideally non-generic testosterone shooter and you tell him to go play Halo with a handicap.

To the thread's current residence, passing off "they wont sell as well as Call of Duty" isn't the most optimistic approach to take as a fan who has a voice. There are plenty of developers out there who have passion in making their games, ones that will happily take in new ideas to explore and create something worthwhile.

 

[Harlemura]

Even if a proper thinkin' shooter were made, I wouldn't play it myself.
Thinking tactics is all well and good, but I'd never find it as fun as simply running out and shooting people in the face.

 

[Penguinness]

I've always found Halo to be a fairly intelligent shooter, it's just the people who play it that aren't

You have a variety of weapons that are good for different situations, a variety of situations you can get into. For instance:

Assault Rifle - Good for mid-close range, you have to keep your crosshair on the target so that the spray can hit them enough to kill, so it's not just an auto-spray and win as such.

Battle Rifle (DMR for Halo Reach) can beat assault rifle in long-mid ranges, and sometimes short if you're good enough you can do it in short range. In reach the DMR is a single fire weapon which requires you to hit them four times in the body and then once in the head for the quickest kill (if my memory is correct). When you get hit you zoom out of your weapon so it's never that easy when you get closer, people can also get into cover.

Then you have close range weapons like the shotgun which requires one or two shots (or one and a melee attack, depending on how close you are), which can beat assault rifle at close range, depending if they are running towards you.. and so on.

My descriptions aren't great, but what I'm trying to say is that shooting won't drop people in 1 hit, and there are a range of things you can do that can beat the enemy.

 

[seekeroftruth86]

Anyway, Human Revolution looks to be great, and whilst Deus Ex isn't an FPS (it's an RPG that you can shoot in), the third is a little more in that direction given how they're handling guns.

That's what I thought Bioshock was like for the most part. There was a great deal more to the gameplay than just shoot everybody in sight (not that wasn't significant). Lots of customization and "RPG elements" as I've stated, even if the story was somewhat underdeveloped (though I don't know if I totally agree). Of course, you could argue like Yahtzee and say that this was broken, but I didn't really think so. I definitely think Bioshock fits the category the OP is looking for in "intelligent shooters".

 

[Raykuza]

Gotta say, I love how many fans of shooters today are 12 year old jock frat boys

If a twelve year old made it into a college (prerequisite to making it into a fraternity), he'd be a really fucking smart twelve year old. XD

Seriously though, I don't think 'intelligent' shooters are the right thing to ask for because I don't think shooters are unintelligent per se. I'd say that FPSs are more skill intensive rather than being focused on problem solving. You need to be able to think and act quickly and precisely in order to be successful, and there is even a small degree of strategy involved. I think that the REAL problem with the genre is that it needs more variety what with release after release of a franchise like CoD being somewhat samey.

 

[Stoic raptor]

Try the remake of Resident evil 1 for the gamecube.

Not first person, but you could think of it as a shooter.
And you are always hunted, using all of your resources to survive.

You got to think in that game.
It is also hard.

 

[DeASplode]

ARMA is a highly tactical game, yet not a lot of people play it. Probably because of the amount of different controls you need to remember.

Accessibility is one of the things that bring down highly tactical games, since there's a lot you have to remember and learn about a game before you can start to really appreciate it.

 

[Netrigan]

I've always found Halo to be a fairly intelligent shooter, it's just the people who play it that aren't

Most good shooter have an element of strategy about them. Give the player a bit of open space, confront them with different enemy types that require different strategies to defeat, and it becomes a question of prioritizing. Serious Sam is probably the biggest, loudest, dumbest shooter of all time and your mind is constantly scrambling trying to figure out which gun to use and how best to make your stand. It's not deep tactics, but it requires a bit more brain power than people think.

In terms of plot, the first has all the plot it needs... while the next two have more plot ideas than they know how to handle (kind of like the Matrix). I'm not a fan of Halo, but I do consider it a more respectable Quake. Focus is largely on multiplayer, but Bungie put effort into the campaign. Not the type of effort I like, but I really don't have an issue with calling it a quality game.

 

[[.redacted]]

I can't say such a game would be as successful a dedication of a studio's budget and time monetarily as a standard FPS, but it would be appreciated.

Of course, some of these games do exist, but I have yet to come across one that incorporates the progression and ability to play against others with the sort of guerilla warfare that OP is talking about - let alone one in which the various way one can interact with the environment are not only unlabelled, but also grounded in facts and logic.

But hey, everyone wants to shoot shit at some point.

 

[Netrigan]

Gotta say, I love how many fans of shooters today are 12 year old jock frat boys

If a twelve year old made it into a college (prerequisite to making it into a fraternity), he'd be a really fucking smart twelve year old. XD

Seriously though, I don't think 'intelligent' shooters are the right thing to ask for because I don't think shooters are unintelligent per se. I'd say that FPSs are more skill intensive rather than being focused on problem solving. You need to be able to think and act quickly and precisely in order to be successful, and there is even a small degree of strategy involved. I think that the REAL problem with the genre is that it needs more variety what with release after release of a franchise like CoD being somewhat samey.

I think I just hate the accusation because I think it smacks of externalizing the problem. I've met all sorts of Halo fans and they strike me the same as every other FPS fan base. Some are smart, creative, rude, insulting, ignorant, and so on. Doubt they have any significant higher percentage of 12 year olds, frat boys, and jocks in their ranks than any other action game.

Movie Bob has pretty much earned my scorn from one of his old pieces called Worst Person Shooter, in which he tries to lay the blame on the state of on-line playing at the feet of First Person Shooters. I'm pretty sure that if Mario Cart had been the game that pioneered on-line play, we'd be seeing the same sort of crap with people calling you a noob in horrifyingly racist, homophobic, and sexist terms for using the blue shell. It definitely would have happened on something like Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter.

It's simply what happens when you put people in a competitive environment and remove the danger of getting punched in the face for being a complete ass.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Let's see what Deus Ex 3 does. Deus Ex is like a benchmark for these things. At least when they were called "thinking men's shooters." And maybe Rainbow 6 as well but has that ship departed?

Deus Ex

Ninjaed.

Indeed. We shall have to wait and see if Ubisoft (under the incompetent direction of Square-Enix) can pull it off. From what I've seen from the trailers, it can just as easily be another typical shallow action game.

 

[Flac00]

the shooter genre has developed a stereotype for being geared towards twitchy ADHD college jocks. there is so much more to this genre, i loved past MGS games which made you think about each move. imagine a shooter based on the events of the film 'behind enemy lines' where one is being hunted and every resource and ounce of knowledge must be used

imagine a shooter where you are seriously out numbered and you have to set up traps, ambushes and decoys

as much as i love my uber macho modern shooters i think there is so many more options, by making the player overpowered doesn't achieve anything BUT by putting the player at a disadvantage makes the player think and it also creates more suspense and immersion

Crysis did that, kind of. You are super powered and stuff, but on like Delta difficulty, you die fast.

 

[w00tage]

1. MGS is a stealth game.

2. If you feel like you're overpowered, try using a different tactic, and see how you approach the situation. Use the weakest weapon in the game, or decide to kill everything only with melees.

Seriously, try going through the Halo Reach mission Nightfall and use ONLY melee, and see whether or not that's "intelligent" enough for you.

http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/news/blo...ms-up-with-waypoint-for-way-of-the-ninja/7634

This has to be the dumbest answer one could give. The OP is wishing for a more immersible, well thought out, and an ideally non-generic testosterone shooter and you tell him to go play Halo with a handicap.

To the thread's current residence, passing off "they wont sell as well as Call of Duty" isn't the most optimistic approach to take as a fan who has a voice. There are plenty of developers out there who have passion in making their games, ones that will happily take in new ideas to explore and create something worthwhile.

However willing developers are to try new ideas, they sadly can't do so unless they can fund the development themselves or justify the approach to investors/management. And to suits, the only thing about gameply that ever adds up is a formula for keeping people playing. And fun does not count as a factor in said formula And since we're talking about making a shooter more fun in a certain way, it just won't add up for the real decisionmakers.

 

[FalloutJack]

Now now, be fair. I DO think my moves over in Fallout. The thinking is in the player, not the game, I say. Do you know how many times I've tricked a foe into running around a corner into my sights? I ambush, I snipe, I misdirect, and take advantage of situations.

I mean, take Black Mountain for instance... There were different paths up there that allowed for the player to sneak up on some of the mutants there. One in particular had a load of boobytraps, including an Indiana Jones-caliber boulder. Seems frightening, but once the boulder rolls past and the beartraps are done, you open up the enemy's backside, because they're mainly paying attention to the roads. And THEN, you have the option to charge into your heart's content OR (Hee hee hee...) you get Neil to lead most of the Nightkin away from their post, which consists of a bunch of Master-level Nightkin and a trained sniper (though I'd killed him with my OWN sniping before).

There are options for guile in some games, at least.

 

[Kiyotaki]

I would say that there should be more shooter games that actually require thought giving more of a challenge to the ADHD shooters out there who can't listen to each other. Its sadly unfortunate seeing that people would rather win by who has the most "skill" rather than who has the most cunning, makes you appreciate games like Assassins creed brotherhood.

 

[ArchAngelKira]

As long as the developers get paid they don't give a damn. Look at duke nukem forever. I think borderlands is a big exception