Exactly what I'm doing. If the rumors of these "New Gen" systems turn out to be true and backwards compatibility has been sacrificed so a system can play Blu-Rays, I'm better off investing in a older system.Thunderous Cacophony said:
We Really, Really Don't Need New Consoles
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Eh, I think Yahtzee is wrong here. The WiiU failed because they came too late to the party and tried to cater to a market that was already being served. I mean, really? A year before the next generation comes out and all they bring is a machine that's just a little more powerful than the existing machines without very many titles? They deserved to fail and it may not be long before we see Nintendo go the way of Sega and start focusing on software (at least they'll still have handhelds).
Hypothetically, these new consoles should save money. For one, the second largest console (PS4) is no longer using proprietary hardware. All these game companies can spend significantly less time on ports because of this and the ps4 was a resource hog where development time was concerned (stupid asset categories, making people fit oblong games into tiny boxes). There is no reason why developing for one of these new consoles should necessarily cost significantly more money like it did in the previous generation when the step from the ps2 to ps3 was momentous. This generation is going to be the same type of hardware, just better.
So developers also won't have to worry about being as efficient with resources as they had been before. Everything should be easier. The only problem will come if AAA want to make the biggest and baddest possible and have no idea how much to budget. Companies that don't know how to budget deserve to go away.
Hypothetically, these new consoles should save money. For one, the second largest console (PS4) is no longer using proprietary hardware. All these game companies can spend significantly less time on ports because of this and the ps4 was a resource hog where development time was concerned (stupid asset categories, making people fit oblong games into tiny boxes). There is no reason why developing for one of these new consoles should necessarily cost significantly more money like it did in the previous generation when the step from the ps2 to ps3 was momentous. This generation is going to be the same type of hardware, just better.
So developers also won't have to worry about being as efficient with resources as they had been before. Everything should be easier. The only problem will come if AAA want to make the biggest and baddest possible and have no idea how much to budget. Companies that don't know how to budget deserve to go away.
Already have a decent gaming PC. Done!
Seriously, though. I have no plans to buy anything from the latest console generation. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo need to learn their place. And that place is: without my wallet. I'm guessing other people will follow. (Hoping.)
Seriously, though. I have no plans to buy anything from the latest console generation. Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo need to learn their place. And that place is: without my wallet. I'm guessing other people will follow. (Hoping.)
PC gamers would benefit the most from new console hardware existing. As a fellow pc gamer (though I do have consoles as well), don't you realize that the capability/quality of our pc games have been held hostage by the console market? This is because developes want their games to reach the largest market as possible and so games are often held back by the weakest machine they need to reach.tehweave said:
Processing power. Am I a hero now?Anathrax said:
No really. Games like the Fallout series and the Elder Scrolls series are simulating the entire world all the time. This eats up massive amounts of processing power and is, in short, the reason those games tend to be bugged and/or freeze up. If you kept the same graphics (which is unheard of, I know)but upped the processing power you could alleviate most of those problems and then use the left over processor space to pretty up your game in the graphics department.
And then you have the game Defiance. I am interested in seeing how it plays, basically being an MMO on the xbox and all. Which is no small feat to have all those people interacting in "lobbies" decidedly larger than 16 people. The down side is the game looks bad. I attribute the graphics nightmare to all the processor power being routed to keeping the game in a functional state. Perhaps the "720" will allow for MMO like games that don't look half bad either. Who knows?
But really. Am I a hero now? It's all I've ever wanted my whole life was to be an internet hero. Please don't dash my hopes and dreams... Please...?
I don't think the threat to consoles is PC's over the other way around, I'm surprised anyone still gets worked about that. It's tablets and smartphones. I actually never thought that traditional consoles would be released in 2013, I thought everything was headed towards handhelds, which headed towards tablets. I thought the 3DS was going to be a Nintendo tablet. I'm still not sure what the Wii U is, and I like the Wii U. I can play games on the couch with my girlfriend without any split-screen nonsense. Unfortunately, most game designers wouldn't dare dream of making a game under the supposition that most people who will play it experience any form of genuine human interaction anymore.
But anyways, it's still a few years off before it starts to become obvious how much trouble everyone else is in, and tablets are not. All tablets are always BC, BC isn't even a concept it's just a basic assumption. Someday there will be tablets with all the buttons and joysticks we need without any hideous handles, and they will play most of the games we like to play. Once these breeds of tablets come along and get that kind of support (the kind we typically expect from consoles) it will be like a super nova destroying two petty little moons arguing over whose orbital axis is more elegant, and surface more pleasing to the eye, ignoring the giant ball of heat consuming everything in its way.
Consoles are an issue because new platforms have become a problem. Everyone hates new platforms, we want incrementally better versions of platforms we already own, but not all-new platforms. PC's are an issue because AAA games don't sell, so most developers either go F2P, go small, or go out of business. Big PC games are a problem, of the few exist they can only fund themselves by being multi-platform or being a Valve or Blizzard game. Oh, never mind, Valve usually subsidizes development though multiplatform too, and Blizzard's most recent Diablo game was a beta for the console versions. BC is also not a strength of PC gaming, if it were we sure as hell wouldn't need GOG to fix and re-sell our games to us. Even then they aren't without their problems.
Right now, I think everyone kind of stinks. The only games I really enjoy anymore are Nintendo games, but don't get too excited because they only win by default. There's something to be said for one of the world's biggest publishers that has never published a military shooter or a single game with an online pass, much less that horrendous season pass crap. Okay, I'll spend my money on the potential of content that doesn't exist yet. It's either anxiety insurance or a landmine for impulsiveness. All video games seem to be about anymore is cheating impulsive people out of their paychecks, it's like we've come full circle to the arcade again.
But anyways, it's still a few years off before it starts to become obvious how much trouble everyone else is in, and tablets are not. All tablets are always BC, BC isn't even a concept it's just a basic assumption. Someday there will be tablets with all the buttons and joysticks we need without any hideous handles, and they will play most of the games we like to play. Once these breeds of tablets come along and get that kind of support (the kind we typically expect from consoles) it will be like a super nova destroying two petty little moons arguing over whose orbital axis is more elegant, and surface more pleasing to the eye, ignoring the giant ball of heat consuming everything in its way.
Consoles are an issue because new platforms have become a problem. Everyone hates new platforms, we want incrementally better versions of platforms we already own, but not all-new platforms. PC's are an issue because AAA games don't sell, so most developers either go F2P, go small, or go out of business. Big PC games are a problem, of the few exist they can only fund themselves by being multi-platform or being a Valve or Blizzard game. Oh, never mind, Valve usually subsidizes development though multiplatform too, and Blizzard's most recent Diablo game was a beta for the console versions. BC is also not a strength of PC gaming, if it were we sure as hell wouldn't need GOG to fix and re-sell our games to us. Even then they aren't without their problems.
Right now, I think everyone kind of stinks. The only games I really enjoy anymore are Nintendo games, but don't get too excited because they only win by default. There's something to be said for one of the world's biggest publishers that has never published a military shooter or a single game with an online pass, much less that horrendous season pass crap. Okay, I'll spend my money on the potential of content that doesn't exist yet. It's either anxiety insurance or a landmine for impulsiveness. All video games seem to be about anymore is cheating impulsive people out of their paychecks, it's like we've come full circle to the arcade again.
I have 2 problems with PC gaming:
1) The chair is less comfortable than the couch.
2) The general quality of PC hardware has become dreadful during the past 10 years. I have owned several gaming PC's, one in 1996, one in 2000 and one in 2004. The 1996 had zero problems and works to this day. The 2000 one has several hardware issues that I had to address. The 2004 one was a trainwreck. In the following 2 years, I had to change pretty much everything, the hard drives died, the PSU was overheating, the CPU was overheating, the memory was faulty and I actually had to switch motherboard 3 times, because the first 2 ones were defective, and they were made by different manufacturers and bought from different stores. The PC ended up costing me about twice as much as I was prepared to pay for. In contrast my fat gen 1 PS3 is still working perfectly 7 years later, my Wii is of course immortal, and I don't own a 360 because it is a piece of shit.
1) The chair is less comfortable than the couch.
2) The general quality of PC hardware has become dreadful during the past 10 years. I have owned several gaming PC's, one in 1996, one in 2000 and one in 2004. The 1996 had zero problems and works to this day. The 2000 one has several hardware issues that I had to address. The 2004 one was a trainwreck. In the following 2 years, I had to change pretty much everything, the hard drives died, the PSU was overheating, the CPU was overheating, the memory was faulty and I actually had to switch motherboard 3 times, because the first 2 ones were defective, and they were made by different manufacturers and bought from different stores. The PC ended up costing me about twice as much as I was prepared to pay for. In contrast my fat gen 1 PS3 is still working perfectly 7 years later, my Wii is of course immortal, and I don't own a 360 because it is a piece of shit.
You're still getting BSOD? Might want to look at upgrading friend.kiri2tsubasa said:
Sorry you had problems, but it isn't that hardware has become "dreadful" over the past years. It's actually become pretty damned impressive. I know I have an edge over a lot of people when it comes to setting up computers since I work on them and was raised by someone who does, but overheating problems, faulty parts (most of the time), and things like that are because of poor build quality, insufficient power supply, poor ventilation, ect. If your motherboard was just defective you can get a replacement for free, so it makes me think your ventilation and power supply sucked and it fried the motherboard. Yes computers actually require some knowledge to properly set up but it isn't that hard to at least talk to someone or do a bit of research. (Note this has nothing to do with console vs PC, I was just responding to the problems you were having)Carnagath said:
OT: I know a lot of the information on the next gen is "rumors" but as someone else said somewhere the amount of rumors that say the same thing is staggering, and it's hard to dismiss them. It doesn't really affect me all that much since I largely PC game, but for the market to take a turn like this is ridiculous. It's like companies have been progressively trying more and more to see how much they can get away with. And they will keep getting away with it because sales will be through the roof as always. I still haven't bought Diablo 3 since I refuse to be forced online when I want to play single player, and if rumors are correct that means I'm missing out on the next xbox as well. Ah well, back to Total War for me! Let there be ROME!
Edited to quote Carnagath
World of Warcraft- 10.75 million copies soldUmaro67 said:
Diablo III- 10 million copies sold
Civilization V- 9 million copies sold
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim- 5 million copies sold
Portal 2- 3 million copies sold
Battlefield 3- 2.5 million copies sold
Deus Ex: Human Revolution- 2 million copies sold
Call of Duty Black Ops 2- 1.45 million copies sold
All numbers listed above are for PC units.
PC-only titles sell well enough that there are dozens of publishers that do nothing but develop and release PC games.
Backwards compatibility on the PC is much less of a problem than it is on consoles. There's no point in arguing this. Out of the 600+ games I own for my PC, only a handful no longer work on modern computers -- console gamers who own a similarly-sized cross-console library can't claim the same thing.
----
As far as I'm concerned, the next generation of consoles is going to decide the future long-term well being of the console industry as a whole. The PC side of the video game industry, on the other hand, is only getting stronger -- AAA publishers are slowly losing their dominance, indie developers are gaining market traction and releasing better games, post-release prices are getting cheaper, the Steambox and the Ouya are making waves, and more people are dropping their current-gen consoles in favor of the PC platform.
Yahtzee's on the right track.
Is it just me or does anyone miss playing Rogue Squadron/Luigis Mansion/Pikmin/SSBroMelee for the first time when the Nintendo Gamecube was released?
Or Call of Duty 2 and Fight Night 3 for Xbox360?
i miss that feeling, tho then again i was a kid. I dont even know what to look forward to as with gaming in general anymore, considering how i feel games today are lacking something and are "kind of a crap-tastical voyage."
what would i be missing with these new console releases?
Or Call of Duty 2 and Fight Night 3 for Xbox360?
i miss that feeling, tho then again i was a kid. I dont even know what to look forward to as with gaming in general anymore, considering how i feel games today are lacking something and are "kind of a crap-tastical voyage."
what would i be missing with these new console releases?
It's been possible to play PC games on your couch for a long while now, steam are also making it easier with "big-picture" UI.Carnagath said:
Personally, I love it. Console feel but with 1080p res and extra graphical bells and whistles. Could be worth checking out.
PS3 and XBox360 are on their last legs and WiiU is just barely catching up. The replacements will only arrive in autumn/winter. Lots of the games are being released on PC as well anyway. A decent gaming PC doesn't cost a fortune anymore either.
Developers are starting to favour the PC as a development platform, because they can play around with more stuff and sheer power there. That's why even multi-platform titles actually look best on PC these days.
The free to play market keeps getting bigger, and is pretty much a PC phenomenon. Through direct marketing (Steam, ...) you got access to a huge game library 6 days a week, 24h a day.
You can hook up PCs to your TV easier than ever thanks to HDMI + flat-screens and lots of games can be played with a game pad (may need a USB-extension cable). If you want, you can even use original console game pads.
Valve, Ouya and various hardware manufacturers are building mini-PCs, which are meant as open platforms from the get go (in contrast to consoles), and which feature a custom built GUI which you can operate from your couch.
Did i miss something? What's there not to like? 2013 - the year of the PC.
Developers are starting to favour the PC as a development platform, because they can play around with more stuff and sheer power there. That's why even multi-platform titles actually look best on PC these days.
The free to play market keeps getting bigger, and is pretty much a PC phenomenon. Through direct marketing (Steam, ...) you got access to a huge game library 6 days a week, 24h a day.
You can hook up PCs to your TV easier than ever thanks to HDMI + flat-screens and lots of games can be played with a game pad (may need a USB-extension cable). If you want, you can even use original console game pads.
Valve, Ouya and various hardware manufacturers are building mini-PCs, which are meant as open platforms from the get go (in contrast to consoles), and which feature a custom built GUI which you can operate from your couch.
Did i miss something? What's there not to like? 2013 - the year of the PC.
itsthesheppy said:
Aaand that's why people call PC gamers "elitists". You're giving us a bad name, fucking stop it!El Portero said:
Two Words: Uncanny Valley
The instant that consoles hit the point of Uncanny Valley level graphics (which they are dangerously close to already) then it's curtains for the entire console industry. Once that happens, combined with the fact that most titles with any depth are either PC exclusives or just PC-with-shitty-console-port titles, then it's all over for them. People won't be ABLE to play them for the graphics without literally vomiting, and they won't have any reason other than the graphics to even try.
That's why, in the end, PC gaming will win and consoles will die. And there's a good chance it'll happen in the very next generation. If not...it still won't be long.
The instant that consoles hit the point of Uncanny Valley level graphics (which they are dangerously close to already) then it's curtains for the entire console industry. Once that happens, combined with the fact that most titles with any depth are either PC exclusives or just PC-with-shitty-console-port titles, then it's all over for them. People won't be ABLE to play them for the graphics without literally vomiting, and they won't have any reason other than the graphics to even try.
That's why, in the end, PC gaming will win and consoles will die. And there's a good chance it'll happen in the very next generation. If not...it still won't be long.
Since when did 'elite' become a bad word? Hang on, let me look it up. On the INTERNET!Markunator said:
Goodness, those all look like positives. So why is elitism a bad thing, again? Oh, you're looking for the word arrogance, I think. Well, why should we be arrogant? Is it because PCs are far, far better gaming platforms? Because they are, and you know they are. Out and proud, friend!
And then there's people like me... All systems and an immensely powerful machine. Seriously, we look at people firmly rooted in any single given camp and shake our heads knowingly. Can't possibly get more elite than that. Every platform has its benefits and its drawbacks/limitations.Markunator said:
1. Computers are completely customizeable/consoles are only customizeable if you are a computer engineer.
2. Consoles are the perfect party platform/Computers are terrible at multiplayer games on the same machine and there's not enough demand for that to change just yet.
3. The 360 has an amazing online service/ The PS3's service is competent and free / the pc internet service is unrivaled and also free.
4. Sony has the most good and great exclusives (Journey, Heavy Rain, inFamous, Uncharted, etc)/ 360's exclusives are limited but usually epic (Halo series, GOW, etc)/The PC has a lot of games that are only on one console but also on it and a significant library of pc-only titles (consoles are playing catch up with the indie market right now).
5. Consoles are convenient and generally quiet living room entertainment centers/Powerful gaming rigs require significant noise reduction technology in the living room and may not be as convenient (boot time, navigation, etc).
6. Consoles have peripherals that can make them worth while right now (depending on the person), such as the connect/Computers aren't really there yet and those peripherals require space that most home office areas don't have.
7. Consoles are relatively cheap for the power they offer/PCs are expensive to really get where you want to be but can also be upgraded years down the road for cheaper than buying a new system. For example, my system is top of the line but only has one video card. Down the road I just slap on one or two other video cards and bridge them.
8. Computers can be used to view a wider variety of online services/Consoles have piss poor browsers that block sites they feel compete with them and require seperate apps to view others.
But, as I said before, the quality of games on the pc has really suffered by being held back by consoles. I know my 32GB RAM machine with a new i7 intel (my apologies to my future self should I read this and realize how outdated this hardware is in the future) can handle more, but developers of AAA games are only building the games to be playable on all platforms and so there's not much of an incentive in making the pc version multiple times better. Especially when not everyone has the same rig I do. Sure, you get your crysis type games here and there but graphics have also reached a point where better graphics aren't all that necessary. I'd say we're mostly on the other side of the uncanny valley now and once we're firmly on the other side and even independent studios have access to engines that can handle them then games can finally get away from all this graphiophile bullshit and start making us good games. If Yahtzee or Jim or any of these amazing reviewers want game developers to stop caring about graphics more than stories then this is the necessary step to get graphics out of the way.
I keep forgetting. You can't be facetious on the internet; no one will get it.Markunator said:
Protip: When someone is referencing racial purification, they are either A) a neonazi or B) joking on some level.
Sorry for the confusion.