We Really, Really Don't Need New Consoles
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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I have 2 problems with PC gaming:
1) The chair is less comfortable than the couch.
2) The general quality of PC hardware has become dreadful during the past 10 years. I have owned several gaming PC's, one in 1996, one in 2000 and one in 2004. The 1996 had zero problems and works to this day. The 2000 one has several hardware issues that I had to address. The 2004 one was a trainwreck. In the following 2 years, I had to change pretty much everything, the hard drives died, the PSU was overheating, the CPU was overheating, the memory was faulty and I actually had to switch motherboard 3 times, because the first 2 ones were defective, and they were made by different manufacturers and bought from different stores. The PC ended up costing me about twice as much as I was prepared to pay for. In contrast my fat gen 1 PS3 is still working perfectly 7 years later, my Wii is of course immortal, and I don't own a 360 because it is a piece of shit.
1) The chair is less comfortable than the couch.
2) The general quality of PC hardware has become dreadful during the past 10 years. I have owned several gaming PC's, one in 1996, one in 2000 and one in 2004. The 1996 had zero problems and works to this day. The 2000 one has several hardware issues that I had to address. The 2004 one was a trainwreck. In the following 2 years, I had to change pretty much everything, the hard drives died, the PSU was overheating, the CPU was overheating, the memory was faulty and I actually had to switch motherboard 3 times, because the first 2 ones were defective, and they were made by different manufacturers and bought from different stores. The PC ended up costing me about twice as much as I was prepared to pay for. In contrast my fat gen 1 PS3 is still working perfectly 7 years later, my Wii is of course immortal, and I don't own a 360 because it is a piece of shit.
You're still getting BSOD? Might want to look at upgrading friend.kiri2tsubasa said:
Sorry you had problems, but it isn't that hardware has become "dreadful" over the past years. It's actually become pretty damned impressive. I know I have an edge over a lot of people when it comes to setting up computers since I work on them and was raised by someone who does, but overheating problems, faulty parts (most of the time), and things like that are because of poor build quality, insufficient power supply, poor ventilation, ect. If your motherboard was just defective you can get a replacement for free, so it makes me think your ventilation and power supply sucked and it fried the motherboard. Yes computers actually require some knowledge to properly set up but it isn't that hard to at least talk to someone or do a bit of research. (Note this has nothing to do with console vs PC, I was just responding to the problems you were having)Carnagath said:
OT: I know a lot of the information on the next gen is "rumors" but as someone else said somewhere the amount of rumors that say the same thing is staggering, and it's hard to dismiss them. It doesn't really affect me all that much since I largely PC game, but for the market to take a turn like this is ridiculous. It's like companies have been progressively trying more and more to see how much they can get away with. And they will keep getting away with it because sales will be through the roof as always. I still haven't bought Diablo 3 since I refuse to be forced online when I want to play single player, and if rumors are correct that means I'm missing out on the next xbox as well. Ah well, back to Total War for me! Let there be ROME!
Edited to quote Carnagath
World of Warcraft- 10.75 million copies soldUmaro67 said:
Diablo III- 10 million copies sold
Civilization V- 9 million copies sold
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim- 5 million copies sold
Portal 2- 3 million copies sold
Battlefield 3- 2.5 million copies sold
Deus Ex: Human Revolution- 2 million copies sold
Call of Duty Black Ops 2- 1.45 million copies sold
All numbers listed above are for PC units.
PC-only titles sell well enough that there are dozens of publishers that do nothing but develop and release PC games.
Backwards compatibility on the PC is much less of a problem than it is on consoles. There's no point in arguing this. Out of the 600+ games I own for my PC, only a handful no longer work on modern computers -- console gamers who own a similarly-sized cross-console library can't claim the same thing.
----
As far as I'm concerned, the next generation of consoles is going to decide the future long-term well being of the console industry as a whole. The PC side of the video game industry, on the other hand, is only getting stronger -- AAA publishers are slowly losing their dominance, indie developers are gaining market traction and releasing better games, post-release prices are getting cheaper, the Steambox and the Ouya are making waves, and more people are dropping their current-gen consoles in favor of the PC platform.
Yahtzee's on the right track.
Is it just me or does anyone miss playing Rogue Squadron/Luigis Mansion/Pikmin/SSBroMelee for the first time when the Nintendo Gamecube was released?
Or Call of Duty 2 and Fight Night 3 for Xbox360?
i miss that feeling, tho then again i was a kid. I dont even know what to look forward to as with gaming in general anymore, considering how i feel games today are lacking something and are "kind of a crap-tastical voyage."
what would i be missing with these new console releases?
Or Call of Duty 2 and Fight Night 3 for Xbox360?
i miss that feeling, tho then again i was a kid. I dont even know what to look forward to as with gaming in general anymore, considering how i feel games today are lacking something and are "kind of a crap-tastical voyage."
what would i be missing with these new console releases?
It's been possible to play PC games on your couch for a long while now, steam are also making it easier with "big-picture" UI.Carnagath said:
Personally, I love it. Console feel but with 1080p res and extra graphical bells and whistles. Could be worth checking out.
PS3 and XBox360 are on their last legs and WiiU is just barely catching up. The replacements will only arrive in autumn/winter. Lots of the games are being released on PC as well anyway. A decent gaming PC doesn't cost a fortune anymore either.
Developers are starting to favour the PC as a development platform, because they can play around with more stuff and sheer power there. That's why even multi-platform titles actually look best on PC these days.
The free to play market keeps getting bigger, and is pretty much a PC phenomenon. Through direct marketing (Steam, ...) you got access to a huge game library 6 days a week, 24h a day.
You can hook up PCs to your TV easier than ever thanks to HDMI + flat-screens and lots of games can be played with a game pad (may need a USB-extension cable). If you want, you can even use original console game pads.
Valve, Ouya and various hardware manufacturers are building mini-PCs, which are meant as open platforms from the get go (in contrast to consoles), and which feature a custom built GUI which you can operate from your couch.
Did i miss something? What's there not to like? 2013 - the year of the PC.
Developers are starting to favour the PC as a development platform, because they can play around with more stuff and sheer power there. That's why even multi-platform titles actually look best on PC these days.
The free to play market keeps getting bigger, and is pretty much a PC phenomenon. Through direct marketing (Steam, ...) you got access to a huge game library 6 days a week, 24h a day.
You can hook up PCs to your TV easier than ever thanks to HDMI + flat-screens and lots of games can be played with a game pad (may need a USB-extension cable). If you want, you can even use original console game pads.
Valve, Ouya and various hardware manufacturers are building mini-PCs, which are meant as open platforms from the get go (in contrast to consoles), and which feature a custom built GUI which you can operate from your couch.
Did i miss something? What's there not to like? 2013 - the year of the PC.
itsthesheppy said:
Aaand that's why people call PC gamers "elitists". You're giving us a bad name, fucking stop it!El Portero said:
Two Words: Uncanny Valley
The instant that consoles hit the point of Uncanny Valley level graphics (which they are dangerously close to already) then it's curtains for the entire console industry. Once that happens, combined with the fact that most titles with any depth are either PC exclusives or just PC-with-shitty-console-port titles, then it's all over for them. People won't be ABLE to play them for the graphics without literally vomiting, and they won't have any reason other than the graphics to even try.
That's why, in the end, PC gaming will win and consoles will die. And there's a good chance it'll happen in the very next generation. If not...it still won't be long.
The instant that consoles hit the point of Uncanny Valley level graphics (which they are dangerously close to already) then it's curtains for the entire console industry. Once that happens, combined with the fact that most titles with any depth are either PC exclusives or just PC-with-shitty-console-port titles, then it's all over for them. People won't be ABLE to play them for the graphics without literally vomiting, and they won't have any reason other than the graphics to even try.
That's why, in the end, PC gaming will win and consoles will die. And there's a good chance it'll happen in the very next generation. If not...it still won't be long.
Since when did 'elite' become a bad word? Hang on, let me look it up. On the INTERNET!Markunator said:
Goodness, those all look like positives. So why is elitism a bad thing, again? Oh, you're looking for the word arrogance, I think. Well, why should we be arrogant? Is it because PCs are far, far better gaming platforms? Because they are, and you know they are. Out and proud, friend!
And then there's people like me... All systems and an immensely powerful machine. Seriously, we look at people firmly rooted in any single given camp and shake our heads knowingly. Can't possibly get more elite than that. Every platform has its benefits and its drawbacks/limitations.Markunator said:
1. Computers are completely customizeable/consoles are only customizeable if you are a computer engineer.
2. Consoles are the perfect party platform/Computers are terrible at multiplayer games on the same machine and there's not enough demand for that to change just yet.
3. The 360 has an amazing online service/ The PS3's service is competent and free / the pc internet service is unrivaled and also free.
4. Sony has the most good and great exclusives (Journey, Heavy Rain, inFamous, Uncharted, etc)/ 360's exclusives are limited but usually epic (Halo series, GOW, etc)/The PC has a lot of games that are only on one console but also on it and a significant library of pc-only titles (consoles are playing catch up with the indie market right now).
5. Consoles are convenient and generally quiet living room entertainment centers/Powerful gaming rigs require significant noise reduction technology in the living room and may not be as convenient (boot time, navigation, etc).
6. Consoles have peripherals that can make them worth while right now (depending on the person), such as the connect/Computers aren't really there yet and those peripherals require space that most home office areas don't have.
7. Consoles are relatively cheap for the power they offer/PCs are expensive to really get where you want to be but can also be upgraded years down the road for cheaper than buying a new system. For example, my system is top of the line but only has one video card. Down the road I just slap on one or two other video cards and bridge them.
8. Computers can be used to view a wider variety of online services/Consoles have piss poor browsers that block sites they feel compete with them and require seperate apps to view others.
But, as I said before, the quality of games on the pc has really suffered by being held back by consoles. I know my 32GB RAM machine with a new i7 intel (my apologies to my future self should I read this and realize how outdated this hardware is in the future) can handle more, but developers of AAA games are only building the games to be playable on all platforms and so there's not much of an incentive in making the pc version multiple times better. Especially when not everyone has the same rig I do. Sure, you get your crysis type games here and there but graphics have also reached a point where better graphics aren't all that necessary. I'd say we're mostly on the other side of the uncanny valley now and once we're firmly on the other side and even independent studios have access to engines that can handle them then games can finally get away from all this graphiophile bullshit and start making us good games. If Yahtzee or Jim or any of these amazing reviewers want game developers to stop caring about graphics more than stories then this is the necessary step to get graphics out of the way.
I keep forgetting. You can't be facetious on the internet; no one will get it.Markunator said:
Protip: When someone is referencing racial purification, they are either A) a neonazi or B) joking on some level.
Sorry for the confusion.
Eh, it is slightly different.El Portero said:
The reason it can be hard to make jokes on the internet is that it is easy to lose context or to convey inflection the way that tone of voice normally colors language. Not having proper tone of voice, but only text, makes a lot of intricacies of communication more difficult.
Poe's Law is a thing that has to do with jokes or parody being hard to tell from reality because there are so many people who say things identical to the jokes %100 seriously. There is a huge explosion of PC gaming elitism going on right now. To the point that it can be hard for people to tell the difference between the jokes and the serious claims.
Meaning it isn't the internet's fault so many people are taking "PC gaming master race" jokes seriously.
This isn't new news, but Yahtzee is generally incorrect about Nintendo. And many people think for good reason that Yahtzee is biased against Nintendo. Nintendo is bright and happy, makes child-friendly games, does not produce systems that are common for Western first person shooters to arrive on, and certainly not Valve games of any variety. And of all things is become a major player in the Japanese RPG industry today perhaps getting behind the Japanese RPG more than Square Enix. A genre of video game that Yahtzee distastes, probably for many of the same reasons she doesn't like Nintendo games.xdiesp said:
It would seem that Nintendo content and aesthetic just isn't to Yahtzee's tastes. Which is probably why he is so negative toward Nintendo in general.
While there is a lot of criticism to make of Nintendo. From their business practices to their hardware manufacturing. Yahtzee has gone after critically acclaimed high quality Nintendo games time after time. As well as some of the most beloved jRPGs from this generation like Valkyria Chronicles. I see a trend of Yahtzee's biases here.
As much as I think there might be weight behind the statement that the gaming industry is tired of consoles and doesn't need more. Or perhaps dedicated gaming hardware in general. It is going to come less strong in its effect from someone who appears to have less respect for the console discipline of software development in general.
I cannot fathom any reason why Yahtzee would hold Super Mario Galaxy as a lesser game than say, Portal, other than bias towards Nintendo.
Haha, that's rich.EstrogenicMuscle said:
To some degree, reviews do revolve around personal tastes so you will run into reviewers that will completely disagree with you. For me, I found the portion of your post that I quoted above to be almost ridiculously silly and I've owned every Nintendo console until the WiiU. My eyes still hate me for buying a virtual boy. But I think (and most gamers agree) that Portal is a sort of masterpiece of innovation and story telling. It'd be like complaining why anyone could possibly consider the new Spiderman reboot as anything less than Casablanca or The Shawshank Redemption. Sure, it's good or well recieved, but it's not a masterpiece of cinema.
To that effect, Nintendo has gone steadily downhill. I hope they make it through this generation after the misstep that history will call the WiiU. I hope you can wade through Yahtzee's dislike of many Nintendo titles and pay attention to his legitimate and sometimes objective criticism of the way they're doing things.
Quick, name a few new Nintendo IPs developed in the past decade (2003-2013) that you really enjoy and want to see more of. Don't think in terms of individual games like a new Zelda/Metroid/Mario/Kirby/Metroid game but rather a completely new IP that they created based in a unique world. How about in the past two decades (1993-2013)?
Over the past two decades, even with the Playstation only getting in around 1994/1995 (Japan/US) and Xbox appearing in 2001, both platforms and parent companies have produced/developed a ton of new titles that I'm genuinely happy exist. Perhaps it's because of their relatively young age that they're popping out so many great new IPs but that doesn't excuse what should have been the biggest boy in town dropping the ball for so long.
Consider how old and how thoroughly milked these classic titles are.
Mario: 1981
Metroid: 1986
Kirby: 1992 (hah, just outside the arbitrary two decade time I set up)
Link/Zelda: 1986
Tetris: 1985
Star Fox: February 21st 1993 (just outside of 20 years, but within my arbitrary parimeters)
Kid Icarus: 1986
When they make a new IP now, it typically centers around all the old IPs. Take Super Smash Bros for example. It is technically a new IP but is also completely vested in old IPs. So I'm not sure if it's honestly a new IP or a continuation of multiple franchises all coming together to brawl.
I'd say Nintendo has a few franchises that are new enough to count. Pokemon, Pikmin and Animal crossing.
All of those fall just outside the decade qualifier but do land in the two decades time frame and don't include relying on old IPs. But seriously, where has Nintendo been for the last decade? I mean, you do have several new game types for the Wii like Wii Sports, but those are more peripheral games demonstrating functionality than actually having characters and plots. Still, I'd permit them just like I'd have permitted a sports or driving/racing game.
New consoles coming are going to be facing the same problem as Blue Ray... yes they are superior, but fact is its technology that is to expensive that has come out way to soon. Expecting everybody to convert because advertisement tells us to and because some people have the money & some willing to take the risk of purchasing it early before theres any reasonable selection of games? It all really comes down to how much better it is & timing. I think they are going to screw up both.
eh I think you are missing the point. PC's are superior in everyway, more powerful, more customizable (modding),EstrogenicMuscle said:
more precise controls, most peripheral devices, multifunctional, internet allows much higher level of information sources and content than the rather limited online console ect
As for money. You can get a decent machine for $500, slightly higher than the marked down price of a console but pretty close. It's just easier to say that we're joking in order to avoid arguments. As for any insulting/bigotry its mostly done in jest because we clearly know the other side is either trolling, ignorant or in denial because they shelled out day 1 for a console they don't have any decent games on, major buyers remorse. Or are just arguing because they feel as though they have been threatened, because of any perceived insults made to the other side.
There are a small amount of people who say both are good and own both PC and consoles. I agree with that! I own a Wii, xbox 360 and a PC, but thats not the question being asked. The question is "which is better", if you don't want to hear the answer or want the answer to be whatever you want to be then perhaps you shouldn't ask the question in the first place. A wise man once said, the best way to answer a difficult problem is to avoid bringing it up.
The only real advantage is the social aspect of being on a coach with friends hence why casual gaming is the big thing. Its the reason why alot of console games are getting coop as main features, and why xbox live arcade is booming.
PC has coop and online play also though, MMO's in particular are considered the ultimate social gaming experience but what makes it really work is whether you are playing with friends, so consoles make that real easy and so have the advantage there.
I completely agree (with yahtzee), I really don't want a new console.
and that's not because I think a pc is better, no, I just think my ps3 is still perfectly fine.
so I'm not gonna buy a new console,
there are plenty of games on ps3 I haven't played yet, and they will only get cheaper.
once I've run out of games to play, I could still go crazy and buy a wii for a buck and play a couple of games worth playing on it,
maybe after that I'll switch to a ps6 or something,
but damn, I really don't see any reason to buy a new console now
and that's not because I think a pc is better, no, I just think my ps3 is still perfectly fine.
so I'm not gonna buy a new console,
there are plenty of games on ps3 I haven't played yet, and they will only get cheaper.
once I've run out of games to play, I could still go crazy and buy a wii for a buck and play a couple of games worth playing on it,
maybe after that I'll switch to a ps6 or something,
but damn, I really don't see any reason to buy a new console now
That's a very harsh generalization of Wii games. Your description of heavy physical movement might describe some shovelware or launch games that felt they had to include the motion control to be good, but games like Metroid Prime 3 used it to make aiming feel more natural than shifting an analog stick back and forth and for turning levers and such, and No More Heroes used mainly the buttons, and the motion was for quick finishers or changing stances.Negatempest said:The reason the Wii didn't stand to well with "hardcore" gamers was more than just a simple gimmick. To play a Wii game had the player use so much physical excursion that players would tire out quickly from games that were enjoyable to play for more than 30 minutes. So much physical movement from the player to make an avatar move in a specific manner is far more annoying than having a touch screen on a game control.
To me, the touch screen is more than a gimmick. A gimmick in a video game console or game is when a "feature" is terribly implemented. When it is done right, it's now a feature.I have a Xbox 360 and a ps3 and have already noticed how many shooters I have in my library compared to action/adventure games and fighting games. Though the game that sold me the most on the touch screen was not Mario or Nintendo Land. It was Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate. A game that allows the player to decide was secondary HUD options that they don't want to clutter the TV screen to be displayed on the gamepad screen. And I LOVE it so much. Do I "need" to see my comrades health? No, but I have it on the second screen just to see who is not healing. -_-
P.S. I have a gaming PC as well...but Monster hunter man....Monster Hunter O_O
But I absolutely agree with you on the touch screen and Monster Hunter. I've been playing Wind Waker HD lately, and having that second screen at hand is wonderful. When you would previously have to pause the game, pull up the full map, remember where you wanted to go, then return to the game feels hilariously outdated now that you can just glance down and do all that in a second. It's the same with changing items; go to the inventory tab, drag item to the equip slot, done. No more pausing then scrolling through menus to find what you need. This is what makes having a new console worth it, it does something different that games can take advantage of that can't be done on an older system.