We should forgive Bioware.

[Agayek]

If they make a good game, then sure I'll forgive them.

That's looking increasingly unlikely however. The trend has been a steady decline in quality. I had some hopes that they'd finally gotten over it while playing through ME3, but then I met the starchild and those hopes were crushed.

 

[EvilMaggot]

Star Wars the old republic... REAAAALLLLY well done as far as a story telling MMO... but.. shouldnt have beeen a mmo but singleplayer game.. maybe KOTOR3(cmon bioware just give it to me already!!)... would have done that very well instead

 

[tmande2nd]

"People dont forget, nothing is forgiven"
-John Marston.

I am going to watch DA3, but I fully expect it to just blow up in their face.
Hey maybe we can get an ending where we can side with the Darkspawn, since they are really trying to SAVE us from ourselves!

You know its telling just looking at DAO and DA2
It took me HALF AN HOUR to figure out what to do in DAO, and DA2 took me 3 seconds.

 

[afroebob]

I can't speak for Dragon Age 2, but I have played TOR and ME3 and can speak for them. The Old Republic was not a bad game, it had a good story and had the best leveling in any MMO I have ever played. Howeveer, it would have been better to make a less traditional MMO or at least a bit better end game content. Mass Effect 3 did have a bad ending, but it also had the extended cut which not only made the ending good (albeit not perfect) and made it a worthy ending to quite possibly the greatest trilogy in gaming, and it was also a huge part in gaming history, being as it was the first time a company to basically say they fucked up and shows that if there is a problem in a game that a developer can have the willingness to fix it (outside of glitches).

All in all, I don't know about Bioware's future, and I am still not happy about them being with EA seeing as EA is a bad company, but Bioware making the extended cut shows that they still do want to create good games. If they where simply giving in they would have gone with the indoctrination theory (which is still brilliant and would have been pretty cool if it was the original intention of the developers), but instead stuck with their artistic vision and gave us something good. I think Bioware is a good company and I think that they still have a lot to offer us, but I know that lots of people are irrational and will hold the ME3 original ending over them forever.

 

[Riddle78]

Forgive them for what? They've done nothing wrong. It's their IP,they are to handle it however they choose. They don't need to apologize if the audience finds fault over something petty. Dragon Age 2 has the same issues that Mass Effect 2 had: Oversimplifacation. And,although it's a bad thing,it did make gameplay faster and feel more fun,so the negative impact of the oversimplifacation is easily counterbalanced by the new fun that was added. And the Mass Effect 3 endings...First of all,let me put on my flame retardant suit.

Now,the ME3 endings were meant to end Commander Shepard's story. Either by going MIA,KIA or simply retiring,this was the end for him. How BioWare decided to tell that ending was their choice,and given the circumstances of the game,made sense and didn't warrant the borderline psychopathic response that it got from the playerbase.

So,I'll say it again. Forgive them for what? I have nothing to forgive them for. The only way to improve is to change,and there will always be people there to protest change. Just relax,and when Dragon Age 3 comes out,play it and love it,and if they decide to release a new game in the Mass Effect universe,I know I'd play it. Maybe it'll be about the Morning War or the Relay 314 Incident. Or,hell,maybe it'll be an MMO. Who knows.

Besides,the whole Retake Mass Effect disaster will only serve,in the long run,to make the gaming community look worse. They don't need forgiveness,because,so far,they didn't do anything wrong. Well...Maybe except for forcing me to watch Gorion die. But I've forgiven them for that long ago.

 

[risue]

So I haven't read all the posts, but I'll chip in my two cents anyway. I really enjoyed DA:O, but never played two because everything from the demo to the trailers gave me a very... "this is not the same game, it is rushed" kinda feel, so i stayed away and was very happy i did, and to this day have no intention to play DA2. I loved mass effect, but even in ME2, what a bunch of people consider to be the best of the three, i felt was a much poorer job than ME1. i still enjoyed ME2, but i felt a decline in quality. ME3, again i did enjoy, i didn't even think the original ending was that bad till i really sat back and thought about it. But the overall game as a whole the story was exactly what i had wished it wasn't from the moment the first ME3 trailer came out at the VGAs. "oh god don't turn this into a 'save earth' game" and it was. As for TOR.. never played it so i don't really have anything to say other than its a subscription based MMO, which is something i will never do simply cause i feel it's silly to pay monthly for a game ive already paid for.

But this is about do we forgive them? for me, its not really about "forgiving them" for the fact that they've made games i haven't enjoyed, or haven't lived up to my expectations. I used to really like bioware, they use to be one of my favorite developers. but as it stands now, nothing that they are working on currently, has peaked my interest in the slightest. so, obviously i'm not gonna buy whatever they put out. not out of spite or this "you let me down so now i wont buy from you" attitude, but simply because i'm not interested in any of their games. its as simple as that

 

[spartandude]

they've recently made a bunch of shit and lack luster games so the way i see it until they make another game i really like or has me interested i wont buy it

 

[JesterRaiin]

We should forgive Bioware.

No. Never. Bioware should be burned down, reduced to the ashes and forgotten.

Why ? Because it was them who dared to create massive AAA title that deliberately isn't what game is supposed to be - fun and rewarding experience.

I perceive Mass Effect 3 as a first and unnecessary step into the realm of "games" that strip people of time and instead of assuring some refugium from the hardships of our flawed reality, they make players exhausted, empty inside, feeling betrayed and cheated.

What's worst - it costs us real money. Money we acquire (mostly) doing things that we aren't happy with.

Nope i'll say. Never.

http://i.imgur.com/mTdrY.jpg

 

[Rose and Thorn]

You shouldn't forgive someone until they stop doing the thing that made you angry in the first place.

 

[shrekfan246]

I still think Bioware dropped the ball with the ME3 ending.
The game should never have shipped with the ending it had. The Extended Cut should have been in the game at launch.

Bioware did themselves no favors there.

Personally, I don't actually think Bioware legitimately expected the backlash that the ending from ME3 got. Or, rather, Casey Hudson, since he basically took the reigns from the actual writers at that point.

I wonder what the rest of the team was thinking, anyway?

(This part isn't aimed at you exactly, Topaz.)
Now, to all the people who are saying things like "Well, I won't be buying Bioware just because it's Bioware anymore but sure, I'll keep an eye out if they make anything that interests me", that's pretty much what I'm talking about here. I'm not asking you to just irrationally love Bioware again; I'm wondering why two games, that by all rights should never come near anybody's "Worst 10 Games Ever" list if they've been gaming for more than five years, are enough to make you swear off the developer entirely.

I get the arguments behind "EA is RUINING them!" I do. Everyone who's paid any attention to gaming news knows what EA does to developers it absorbs. But you're not exactly helping by saying you'll never pay any mind to any Bioware game ever again. That's just going to speed up the process of EA canning them, and then what's going to happen? They're probably all going to just go their separate ways, maybe find jobs in different development studios all away from each other, maybe a few will try to set up their own new fledgling developer, but in the end there isn't going to be the same group of talented people all working under one roof. Maybe that would be a good thing, maybe not. I'm sure other developers could use a few better writers anyway...

 

[Tomeran]

I've pretty much moved on and im still a Bioware fan. The ME3 ending was their first -really- big mistake in my book. Even if it was a big one, they have released enough enjoyable products to make up for it. That and the rest of ME3 rocked.

I still think Bioware dropped the ball with the ME3 ending.
The game should never have shipped with the ending it had. The Extended Cut should have been in the game at launch.

Bioware did themselves no favors there.

So true.

Whatever Casey was smoking....I just pray to the gaming gods he stays the hell off it the next time Bioware releases a major title.

 

[Khazoth]

I'm going to dance on my soapbox and say for the eighteenth time.. It wasn't the ending. It was the entire Crucible plot point. That said?


I've seen people on this forum defend EA, and some of those very people are here in this forum denouncing Bioware. I find that hilarious.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

People seem to forget that Bioware flat out lied about what ME3 was going to be. There's a collection of their lies on HoldTheLine forum. It's unlike anything I've ever seen. I know companies lie all the time, but this was so disgusting. Everything they said was the exact opposite of the truth. Forgiveness is not an option.

Oh what the hell, here are a few of the things Bioware said before ME3 was released in it's sorry state.

?Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.?

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/02/28/mass-effect-3-mac-walters/

?[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.?

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/05/qa-mass-effect-3s-mac-walters-on-how-the-game-tries-to-reach-all-audiences/

?I?m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people ?

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/334598/interviews/mass-effect-3-weve-brought-back-a-lot-of-what-was-missing-in-me2/

?And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.?

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazine.co.uk/interview/mass-effect-3-has-many-different-endings/

?There are many different endings. We wouldn?t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can?t
say any more than that??

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-02-bioware-mass-effect-3-ending-will-make-some-people-angry

?Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."

?You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.?

?Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make?

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/04/28/casey-hudson-interview-mass-effect-3.aspx

?For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.?

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/casey-hudson-bioware-co-created-mass-effect-3-with-the-sometimes-cranky-fans-interview/

?Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they?re going to get that.?

?Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.?

Interviewer: ?So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise??
Hudson: ?Um? You know, at this point, I think we?re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.?

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] ?Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3??
Hudson: ?Yeah, and I?d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don?t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we?re taking into account so many
decisions that you?ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It?s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.?

 

[MadHatter1993]

Really. I still think BioWare is doing a good job. Mass Effect 3 is probably the most epic gaming experience I've had for ages. The Extended Cut DLC saved it for me, and it is easily one of my favourite games of all time.

Dragon Age 2 dwarfs in comparison to its predecessor which were an epic game. God I have played DA:O many times, and I still play it this day today. Dragon Age 2 was rushed, and the story was pretty unintresting, unengaging and not very exciting.

ToR is just WoW in space. Sorry. I am not an undying fan of the Star Wars universe, and it doesn't draw me the same was as fantasy settings or Mass Effect did.

BioWare have always been praised ot the heavens. Now they stepped a bit off. Let them learn, and lets hope Dragon Age 3 will blow our minds. I for one, want that franchise to be saved.

here here!

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Can we please stop intimating that people who don't like Bioware are gnashing their teeth, clawing their scalps, and rending their garments in anger and frustration? Can't I just think they suck ass in peace? Imagine if people reacted this way every time I casually mention I don't like asparagus. It gets tedious.

It's quite simple, I liked Bioware when they made OK games. Right now I don't like them. Part of that is their insane disrespect for their customers. Most of it is I just don't like the games they're making. Part of that is things like questionable DLC choices, rushing out their games, and yes, the fucking ending. But they're one good game away from becoming my new favorite. In the meantime, it hardly makes sense to celebrate a developer whose games I don't like.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

Forgive them for what? They've done nothing wrong. It's their IP,they are to handle it however they choose. They don't need to apologize if the audience finds fault over something petty. Dragon Age 2 has the same issues that Mass Effect 2 had: Oversimplifacation. And,although it's a bad thing,it did make gameplay faster and feel more fun,so the negative impact of the oversimplifacation is easily counterbalanced by the new fun that was added. And the Mass Effect 3 endings...First of all,let me put on my flame retardant suit.

Now,the ME3 endings were meant to end Commander Shepard's story. Either by going MIA,KIA or simply retiring,this was the end for him. How BioWare decided to tell that ending was their choice,and given the circumstances of the game,made sense and didn't warrant the borderline psychopathic response that it got from the playerbase.

So,I'll say it again. Forgive them for what? I have nothing to forgive them for. The only way to improve is to change,and there will always be people there to protest change. Just relax,and when Dragon Age 3 comes out,play it and love it,and if they decide to release a new game in the Mass Effect universe,I know I'd play it. Maybe it'll be about the Morning War or the Relay 314 Incident. Or,hell,maybe it'll be an MMO. Who knows.

Besides,the whole Retake Mass Effect disaster will only serve,in the long run,to make the gaming community look worse. They don't need forgiveness,because,so far,they didn't do anything wrong. Well...Maybe except for forcing me to watch Gorion die. But I've forgiven them for that long ago.

If you don't think they did anything wrong, that's fine. Opinions, you know. But every company owns their product, every company shapes it as they wish, and every company apologizes when they fuck up. Well, they do when they're finally forced to admit it. I'm not trying to convince you they did fuck up. I'm just saying the literal fact of a company controlling their product is not a reason for everyone involved to be neutral about what they do with it.

I thought the whole Retake Mass Effect thing was pretty tame. Nowhere near as crazy as the backlash. Just look at MovieBob and Collin Moriarty. Or Bioware for that matter.