We should forgive Bioware.

Legion

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Oct 2, 2008
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Bhaalspawn said:
It's because of EA.
Their games actually work and don't crash, unlike Bethesda.
Actually Dragon Age 2 was as buggy as Fallout 3 upon release. Not only did it crash, it also had issues with DLC items not appearing, saved games being wiped, companion perks/skills negating the players, quests being impossible to begin or complete, companions saying lines related to the wrong quests and achievements not being unlockable.

I can say these not only from experience, but from the torrent of threads on their official forums that I witnessed when I attempted to try and find fixes.

Mass Effect as a series has been much better in general in that regard.
 

gunny1993

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Jun 26, 2012
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They shall be forgiven when they stop being the useless corporate sell out they have become today (Or at least make games to their old quality)
 

Legion

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Oct 2, 2008
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Bhaalspawn said:
Legion said:
Bhaalspawn said:
It's because of EA.
Their games actually work and don't crash, unlike Bethesda.
Actually Dragon Age 2 was as buggy as Fallout 3 upon release. Not only did it crash, it also had issues with DLC items not appearing, saved games being wiped, companion perks/skills negating the players, quests being impossible to begin or complete and achievements not being unlockable.

Mass Effect as a series has been much better in general in that regard.
That's funny, because I got Dragon Age 2 and had no issues. Then again, I play on BioWare's home platform...
You are right. You had no issues therefore nobody else could possibly have any either.

Silly me.
 

gunny1993

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Bhaalspawn said:
Their games don't reuse the same engine for 15 years, unlike Valve.

BioWare is the only game company that has a shot of making that hypothetical "Perfect Game" everyone likes to talk about.
Yeah because the source engine is terribly buggy, looks horrible, doesn't do what it's supposed to do, has no amazing fan made games/mods coming from it. Oh and because ME:3 looks so freaking amazing for a console port.

Bioware's quality in game making and customer satisfaction has dropped significantly over the lest few years, the quite clearly are doing something wrong.
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
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Bhaalspawn said:
Legion said:
Bhaalspawn said:
Legion said:
Bhaalspawn said:
It's because of EA.
Their games actually work and don't crash, unlike Bethesda.
Actually Dragon Age 2 was as buggy as Fallout 3 upon release. Not only did it crash, it also had issues with DLC items not appearing, saved games being wiped, companion perks/skills negating the players, quests being impossible to begin or complete and achievements not being unlockable.

Mass Effect as a series has been much better in general in that regard.
That's funny, because I got Dragon Age 2 and had no issues. Then again, I play on BioWare's home platform...
You are right. You had no issues therefore nobody else could possibly have any either.

Silly me.
I did not say that, do not put words in my mouth. I also pointed out that I play BioWare games on the PC, where they tend to be far more stable (much like how Elder Scrolls games are best played on PC considering how much people insist that mods make the games not suck)

I just pointed out that I never saw any of these glitches, so it's new info to me.
Fair enough, I guess it is one of those things where you get lucky. Like in Fallout 3 I never had any issues (and people constantly talked about them) yet Fallout New Vegas I seemed to come across one every ten minutes.

Admittedly when it comes to bugs, PC gaming is definitely superior in that regard. On my Xbox I have to deal with bug issues, on the PC I can either download a mod/patch or I can use the console in many cases to fix it.
 

Andy Shandy

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Jun 7, 2010
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Already done. Although that may have been easier for me, as I don't think they've been nearly as bad as it has been said they are. I enjoyed Dragon Age 2, loved Mass Effect 3 for 99% of it, and didn't care for The Old Republic to begin with.
 

Thoric485

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Aug 17, 2008
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Sure, as soon as they make another RPG that lives up at least to DA:O, without the shovelware DLC.
 

hwrguerapgjapi

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Jul 24, 2012
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Honestly, Mass Effect 2 was the first Bioware game I played, on PS3. And I loved it. One of my all time favourite games. Then I played KotOR, and loved it, if slightly less because it wasn't really my style of game. I never really got into Dragon Age: Origins, and I haven't played any of their other IPs, but they are undoubtedly my favourite developer. The worst they've done is a buggy game in a new genre, according to fans' complaints. I bought Mass Effect 3 Collector's Edition, and I loved it. I even found that the Extended Cut has gotten rid of all of my non-petty complaints about the ending. And it was free.

TL;DR, I saw no drop in average quality between KotOR and ME3. The only difference is the budget and the Prothean DLC, which would have ignored all hate had it come out a month later. I would blame this hate on nostalgia if I wanted to be lynched. Bioware is the best gaming developer in my opinion, having consistently created excellent games.

Also, to quote Yahtzee, maybe fans were upset about the ending because it WAS ending.
 

DarkhoIlow

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The only way they can redeem themselves in my eyes is what path they will choose to take with Dragon Age 3.

I really hope they will take more from Dragon Age Origins(which I loved) and less from Dragon Age 2.
 
Feb 22, 2009
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Eh, I forgave them already. DA2 was about as good as the first for me, ME3's ending was pretty good after the extended cut was released, and as for TOR, I have little to compare it to since it's the only MMO I've played, and it seemed alright (So maybe I'll begin to hate Bioware as soon as Guild Wars 2 is released, who knows? :p). But yeah, I'll still keep buying Bioware games. As it stands, they've not done anything that matches the standards of KOTOR or the first Mass Effect recently, but who cares, those are some of my favourite games of all time, they're allowed a few mistakes after that.
 

Savagezion

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shrekfan246 said:
So why is it that DA2 and ME3 have had such a controversial impact on the community that people just automatically refuse to give the time of day to something branded with "Bioware" on it anymore?
EA has pulled some other team in to do C&C5. This other team is not Bioware, however, since EA owns the brand, they are now calling that team Bioware. If it will sell more copies of Sim CIty 5, EA will rename Maxis Bioware. "Bioware" is now making Facebook apps; and no I don't mean Dragon Age Facebook apps I mean cutesy "Yeti saves Christmas" apps. "Bioware" isn't Bioware anymore, it is a brand EA can stamp on shit to make you and/or other Bioware fans to buy it. "Bioware" doesn't mean anything anymore.
 

NightHawk21

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I think a lot of people just feel betrayed. The same thing is happening right now with Blizz and Diablo 3 I think. Many people were expecting to get something long lasting, and what was shipped was unplayable for a couple days, continuously down for maintenance, and is still plagued with bugs and lack of things to do. Bioware is a little different, because they have taken steps to appease the fans, so as far as I'm concerned they pretty much made up for their mistake. Even not having played ME3, I know I won't forget about the situation and Bioware's mistakes for a long time still, but I'm not going to actively avoiding buying one of their games if it looks good. Blizz on the other hand has done very little to appease its community so far, and I'm skeptical it will.
 

WoW Killer

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I dislike that a set of developers can take the blame for shady business decisions unconnected to them. Bioware's reputation has degraded due to the business practices of EA. It doesn't have anything to do with their games. Mass Effect 3 was not a bad game. Ok it had a dodgy ending, but that's a very superficial thing. The gameplay was good. The multiplayer by all accounts was a surprisingly worthy idea. It was hated on long before release, and the same haters found whatever they could to complain about after they had bought the game (which of course they shouldn't have done).

There's a current trend in the gaming community (there's another obvious recent example that I don't even need to name) that as soon as a game becomes unpopular due to dubious practices like DRM, DLC etc. then it will be attacked from every angle with unreasonable scrutiny. This is dangerous, because mass complaints do not go unnoticed by developers and producers. If enough people complain about a gameplay aspect, then this will influence the directions taken by future games. If you complain dishonestly about gameplay aspects, then the directions taken by future games will end up being against your wishes. A certain game I don't need to name has come under mass criticism for a specific gameplay aspect. I can sum this aspect up very concisely. People are complaining because the endgame is too difficult. What do you think the result of these complaints will be for any developers and producers reading them? They will dumb down their games even more in future. Do you really want that to happen? Complain more about the quality of voice acting or graphics in games and producers will throw even more money at such superficial elements rather than at gameplay. Be clear and honest about what you dislike, and let it be known.

Anyway, Bioware is just a name. There's a set of people (developers, specifically) that used to call themselves Bioware, but that meaning of the word is redundant now. SW:TOR wasn't even made by the old Bioware (it was primarily former member of Mythic). If you're blaming Bioware, the people, for things done by Bioware, the company, then you're falling for the entire brand name delusion. That's the reason EA bought out Bioware in the first place; they were a well respected name. A name.
 

Shoggoth2588

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I get the feeling that Bioware has become to gaming what Frank Miller is to the Comic realm. Both have early careers that many people would claim are legendary (Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, KotOR in the one case; Daredevil, Dark Knight Returns, Batman: Year One). Then in recent years they've done increasingly shady, shoddy work. I don't think Bioware is as bad as Miller at this point but they have plenty of room to fall. I look forward to Bioware and Miller teaming up for a video game adaptation of Holy Terror.
 

bafrali

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Yes we totally should. How will they get a good sleep at night otherwise?

Neither will some complainers reduce the money they make, nor our forgiveness will improve their development quality or work ethic. So what is the point of begging forgiveness for some corporation that is partners with EA.
 

Soviet Heavy

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I've moved on to not caring. I'm never buying another of their games at launch, however. I will wait and see if they actually try to improve things. If the pros outweigh the cons, I'll think about it.