We're Going to Be Rich!

Shamus Young

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Jul 7, 2008
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We're Going to Be Rich!

Somewhere in one of the many game-dev hubs around the world, a little drama unfolds...

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themilo504

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I don?t know enough about elder scrolls online to know if this is what?s happening, but it would not surprise me if it was.

I do think that a elder scrolls mmo could work if it actually played like elder scrolls.
 

BlindChance

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Sep 8, 2009
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It is a testimony to the very cycle you're describing here that even though you were discussing Elder Scrolls, my first thought was, "Oh, he's talking about SWTOR." It works just as well.
 

Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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themilo504 said:
I don?t know enough about elder scrolls online to know if this is what?s happening, but it would not surprise me if it was.

I do think that a elder scrolls mmo could work if it actually played like elder scrolls.
Yea... It is. Maybe not in those exact words or that exact sequence, but that's the gist of the entire development process for pretty much every MMO since WoW made it stupidly huge. Especially TOR and ESO, those two were/are both cynical cash grabs by companies that were so desperate for the WoW revenue stream that they completely lost sight of why WoW managed it in the first place.
 

oldtaku

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Though I think mostly these days they're eying League of Legends (oh yay another MOBA game), F2P from the ground up (oh yay dungeon keeper) or yet another DayZ clone (oh yay open world survival with f#$ing zombies again).

But yeah, every couple years...
 

BrotherRool

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Oct 31, 2008
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People always want their single-player games to be turned into MMOs because they want the world to feel more real. They imagine Pokemon where every trainer you fight is an independent person with a life and a thought process and you really are battling away across the lands. A world with thousands of Jedi. Skyrim with every shopkeeper behaving like a human being. The whole world but more true.

And then they play the new game and realise that MMOs are nothing like that
 

INVALIDUSERNAME

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May 23, 2012
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It's the same shit that always happens and devs don't learn anything. Considering this game's been in development since Burning Crusade was relevant, it's gonna have some archaic ass design with some shoehorned in things to appease Elder Scrolls fans.

Happened to TOR and I rode the Tortanic to it's bitter end.

I'll stick to Guild Wars 2.
 

Mangod

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Feb 20, 2011
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Nice finish there, Shamus. The serpent has consumed its own tail...

Really depressing reading, though. Illuminating, raises a very good point, but still depressing as all heck.
 

Amir Kondori

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ESO is going to be the biggest flop yet. I am calling it now. You have a fan base who, for the most part, are die hard single player RPG fans. I got into the beta and let me tell you, if you are not already into MMO's then you will not be into this one.
I hated it. The quests were stupid, the graphics so-so, the combat bored me.
I feel sad for the flop Bethesda is going to have, but hey, at least it will teach them to stick to what they are good at.
 

tmande2nd

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I played the beta.

I kept thinking: "This is not worth 15 bucks a month!"
Honestly, grab Skyrim and its ultimate edition and some mods.

BOOM you will be much better off.
 

INVALIDUSERNAME

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May 23, 2012
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Agayek said:
Mega Messiah said:
I'll stick to Guild Wars 2.
Yea... I'm just hoping this doesn't happen to WildStar. Really hoping that doesn't.
Wildstar looks good and at least its devs don't have their heads up their asses like ESO's do. But these days even mentioning a sub can make or break a game.
 

Hoplon

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Mar 31, 2010
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themilo504 said:
I don?t know enough about elder scrolls online to know if this is what?s happening, but it would not surprise me if it was.

I do think that a elder scrolls mmo could work if it actually played like elder scrolls.
While it does, it plays like a shit version of the an TES game.

I kept thinking "i might as well be playing skyrim"
 

Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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Mega Messiah said:
Wildstar looks good and at least its devs don't have their heads up their asses like ESO's do. But these days even mentioning a sub can make or break a game.
Yea. Everything I've seen says the devs get MMOs properly. I'm just worried anyway. I've been burned too many times not to be.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Well, as I always say, I have mixed opinions.

For the most part this is correct, but a big part of it is people jumping in with little or no knowledge of what they are getting into, or plans for an MMO other than to make a boatload of cash. I'm actually hoping economic Darwinism has eaten a lot of these companies at this point, after all at this point people should have caught on to the simple fact that an MMO lives or dies by it's endgame and it's content. A quick franchise cash in is not going to work.

That said, I am hoping this current generation of MMOs will do a lot better with the $15 a month price tag. See, right now I've been spending more money than I want to admit on FTP games, largely because they represent the only option for the things I want to do. Something I feel the "Free To Play" Market counts on and why so many people jump on it. Like a lot of people I'm definatly looking at the whole $15 a month for everything idea with a degree of envy, in "Star Trek Online" for example I've heard people talking about Wildstar with disbelief when they consider that they could play that game for three months off of what they spent on a 5000 point ship pack, not to mention he dilithium to outfit it without having to slowly wait grinding to the dil cap for months.

I could be wrong (I actually expected ToR to do better against WoW) but I actually think Free To Play greed has started to catch up with itself and we might see a return of subscription based games to primacy, as long as they do not try and double dip.

As far as "Elder Scrolls Online" goes, my actually analysis is that it comes across as being more of a "Neverwinter" clone, albeit with more of an open world/open zones as opposed to the very linear progression and design style of that title. I see more similarities between those titles and how they play than between WoW and ESO. ESO's success or failure largely depends on whether they can sell the benefits of their system. See, a lot of people like the idea of "free to play" because the stuff they earn is always there, without having to pay to access it, however people are beginning to realize they probably won't be playing in a year or three. When you can dump $30 for a mount or whatever people are realizing it's not that good a deal when they could instead be getting all that stuff for a $15 a month price tag and when they are done can move on with a lot less invested than the hundreds of dollars it might have taken outfitting a fleet of internet space ships, or half a dozen endgame grinders with ideal companion/gear setups. Targeted correctly ESO could rake in the dough, if I was them I'd directly attack Neverwinter and it's pricing in my ads, especially seeing as it has 3 million downloads through ARC alone. ESO is basically selling the same type of real-time/active RPG experience in a more cost effective fashion, as long as it doesn't open a cash shop and provides new content for free periodically (at least a new mount a month or whatever) it could be set.

With "Wildstar" I have more mixed opinions, to be honest it's a little too cartoony for me (which has been grating recently even if I like the basic game set up... those evil furball/ewok things the bad guys have on their side are a bit too much IMO). On the other hand it seems to be gearing up for a more hardcore MMO crowd, with "Wildstar" it comes down of course to them proving themselves cost effective and not double dipping, and actually delivering things like these old school 40 man raid experiences from the beginning.


What is going to kill a "second coming of subscription MMOs" is if they charge you $15 a month and then on top of that expect you to pay extra for all the cosmetic features and such in a cash shop, so every bit of cool content comes with a fee attached. In the end you wind up paying for the right to pay more to get the coolest stuff. On the other hand if they maintain the same pace of producing cosmetic and "cool" content as a FTP game, and provide it as part of the $15 service... well, they are going to get quite competitive, and will probably draw in a volume of users especially if they make a point of showing what a good deal it is comparatively.
 

Dr.Awkward

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Mar 27, 2013
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You know, despite how many developers go after WoW's model when making a MMO, they completely miss other successful concepts such as Minecraft because they don't see it as a MMO.

They would if they stop defining the word "Massive" as "an adjective describing the number of players that play on official servers". Kill the whole of this mindset and replace it with something more financially manageable, and soon we'll be seeing MMOs going in unique places.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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weirdguy said:
somewhere, rhode island is shaking its fist at the sky
And hopefully screaming "BARROMAN!"

But seriously, this wasn't the problem with 38 studios. Fraud and incompetence was. They were dead before they got through most of the MMO steps here.