Wet

[Kajin]

Lovely review, as always. The new column is working for you!

I agree with this, for the most part. Feminists are the bane of my existence. As it stands I can get along with most people with any kind of political ideology, but then there are those extremists at the far end of the spectrum. These are the kinds of people that I would see shoved into an incerator and burned alive if it were in my power. The ones that take a sensible fight for rights and equality and turn it into a reason to hate everyone but themselves. Any of you guys ever hold a door open for a girl that was right behind you and end up getting yelled at for it? I have. Typically, I shut the door in the faces of these girls and, if I can get away with it, lock the door so they can't use it at all.

they can't exactly saunter about in ankle-length hoop skirts drinking tea with their pinkies extended.

I want to see that in a game now... Curse you, Yahtzee! CURSE YOU!!!

Was anyone else thinking of 50 cent before it was actually mentioned?

 

[clicketycrack]

Jesus H. Christ, man. Way to hit the nail on the head.

Anyway, the way that I usually differentiate a badass from a dick is with this example. An ethical man who loves his wife and kids and makes sure to get home every night for supper, and then beats the shit out of every member of a terrorist organization with his bare fists is a badass (ex. John McClane). A dick is someone who acts rude and hostile to absolutely everyone, and then shoots the villains in the face with a punchably arrogant facial expression(ex. Vin Diesal). It sometimes feels like kind of a net difference (I'm sure that's the wrong term) of emotion when you see the protagonist defeat the antagonist. The closer the protagonist is to the antagonist, the less you care.

Also, as for women, I think what it basically is that whoever the fuck scripts games these days are bad at relating to women, so they just go with the modern female steriotype (which is unfortunately, a giant *****). Either that, or it's the equivalent of the token minority characters in everything from the nineties; a cheap hope that you get a sliver of a demographic.

But what do I know.

 

[WaderiAAA]

I hate it with games where the protagonist is a dick or *****. In general, games tend to be sloppy when it comes to character development, compared to books and movies.

 

[Macgyvercas]

Agree with pretty much everything in the article except for one thing...I LIKE Lara Croft.

 

[Pink_Pirate]

Good article, although redundant. I can think of just as many male and female game character who whern't just one-dimensional extensions to some sort of weapon. That's just what most game characters are, and excuse for you, the player, to kill shit. The whole discussion on female characters not getting equal treatment is bullshit, because male characters are exactly the same. For all you would be feminists out there who are trying to prove how video games are a part of the patriarchal conspiracy to dominate women, get over it. I'm all for abolishing the gender divide, but feminist theory is flawed and outdated, go find a boyfriend to shout bigotry at, cause I'm tired of it.

 

[Diablini]

Hope you like Brutal Legend, at least the part which brings on the classic Heavy Metal, no Linkin Park or Slipknot crap (At least in the relevant part).

The female characterization was not a problem in the Fallout days, when having a female character was the same as a male. Probably because even a slight attempt at showing tits would result in 6 skin-color pixels and 1 red one in the center. Maybe one day in the future, history books will say that the last relevant female character was dated 2003 and was called Farah.

Good article, although redundant. I can think of just as many male and female game character who whern't just one-dimensional extensions to some sort of weapon. That's just what most game characters are, and excuse for you, the player, to kill shit. The whole discussion on female characters not getting equal treatment is bullshit, because male characters are exactly the same. For all you would be feminists out there who are trying to prove how video games are a part of the patriarchal conspiracy to dominate women, get over it. I'm all for abolishing the gender divide, but feminist theory is flawed and outdated, go find a boyfriend to shout bigotry at, cause I'm tired of it.

Well, the divide will never technically be abolished. Even though I want it to be too. I mean, a woman is physically weaker, and some (dare I say most) females do very, very stupid shit every day. Like one of my classmates, who thinks she is American and talks just like an American blond, and we actually live in Easter Europe. Also, you can't deny that there are differences, and can't stop feminists who think that those differences are bad. Men have creativity, strength and talent, whilst women have intelligence, beauty and charm. Feminism, or rather what it is today, is treating the female, and female only, different. If you ask a woman to have sex with you - it's degrading, but if she asks you - it's alright. You see the contradiction. That is women wanting to be superior. Feminism, should be the freedom of both genders of saying just Yes or No. No female saying she is getting slammed for being a female, no man saying she's trying to use her evil seducing powers. I have to say, that right now, men should be revolting, because I've come across a load of discrimination. Mainly from teachers or other girls. Also, to balance out the things I said about some (or most) females earlier:
I really think that men should stop judging women only for their looks.

 

[Wakefield]

Nicely written.

I have never seen a tough female character done very well. The only one who came near it was Lara Croft, but- as you mentioned- her viicious tendancy to steal the eyeballs from your sockets didn't seem appealing to me.

Alyx Vance?

 

[The Great JT]

I haven't really noticed women as being under-characterized. Maybe I just happen to sidestep those games.

Anyway, we can wait for Brutal Legend, Yahtzee.

 

[LavaLampBamboo]

Hope you like Brutal Legend, at least the part which brings on the classic Heavy Metal, no Linkin Park or Slipknot crap (At least in the relevant part).

The female characterization was not a problem in the Fallout days, when having a female character was the same as a male. Probably because even a slight attempt at showing tits would result in 6 skin-color pixels and 1 red one in the center. Maybe one day in the future, history books will say that the last relevant female character was dated 2003 and was called Farah.

Actually, if you play as a woman in Fallout 3, you gain a slight advantage taking the Black Widower perk, because the majority of the in-game enemies are men. How's that for strong female leads?

 

[vandimar77]

Rubi didn't really seem to have any character to me. She could have easily been replaced by anyone or anything. She was a generic, acrobatic, gun-toting and bland third person shooter character for a generic third-person shooter. I played the game for a few hours and can't remember any of her action character dialogue. She was very forgettable.

 

[crotalidian]

Well. I braced for impact when I saw that one of my comments had been quoted but I got a concise explanation and also inadvertantly got tipped off to next weeks ZP!

Thanks Yahtzee

I have a feeling some of the more storyline based games are getting bettar with the whole jubblies with characters....I mean Characters with Breasts thing especially with Uncharted, Dragon Age and ME2. Although main character Females still seem to be horrendously portrayed

 

[Diablini]

Hope you like Brutal Legend, at least the part which brings on the classic Heavy Metal, no Linkin Park or Slipknot crap (At least in the relevant part).

The female characterization was not a problem in the Fallout days, when having a female character was the same as a male. Probably because even a slight attempt at showing tits would result in 6 skin-color pixels and 1 red one in the center. Maybe one day in the future, history books will say that the last relevant female character was dated 2003 and was called Farah.

Actually, if you play as a woman in Fallout 3, you gain a slight advantage taking the Black Widower perk, because the majority of the in-game enemies are men. How's that for strong female leads?

I counter you by saying that I meant Fallout 1 & 2. I count 3 as another game (I'm not saying that it's bad, it's just a completely new game.

Also, if you've done your homework, the Black Widow works on about 10 male characters and 7 females, all of which are really useless, as you can always achieve the same thing with the perk as without. It just requires some more time.

 

[paragon1]

"By the time I get my feelings across most people have had a chance to play through it and so understand what I'm talking about, and all the milky white hype and excitement has drained away to the point that everyone's ready to take another look in the bucket to see the horrible gelatinous thing that they've been drinking from for the last two weeks."

There was nothing about that sentence I didn't like.

 

[randommaster]

Nicely written.

I have never seen a tough female character done very well. The only one who came near it was Lara Croft, but- as you mentioned- her vicious tendency to steal the eyeballs from your sockets didn't seem appealing to me.

I have to say I agree. My favorite girl in gaming is Samus, and she spends most of her ime in an armour suit. Why? because she has a rich backstory, how are you supposed to relate to someone you know nothing about? (For much the same reason I actually prefer Shadow to sonic.) It kinda helps that she's kickass to.

While I do agree that Samus is more to what the tough female lead should be like, Samus doesn't really count because her femininity is minimized because of her armor and the lack of any human features while she is wearing it. This might change now that Team Ninja is working on the next Metroid game, but it doesn't seem likely from early footage. While we recently have seen Samus kick ass in her Zero Suit, it's her Power Suit that defines her, not her gender.

The same could be said for Master Chief if his identity weren't confirmed. While the books do a better job of fleshing out the Spartans, they're still mostly about killing the things they've been pointed at. Also, pointing at the books is cheating abit if you're going to talk about video games.

For whatever reason, Sting seems to be able to write strong female characters. Riviera, Yggdra Union and Knights in the Nightmare all have strong female characters that hold their own in battle and the last two titles even have a girl as the main character. While Riviera and Yggdra Union have a girl get kidnapped, it's admittedly done by beings with god-loke powers, so there's some excuse for the distress the damsel has been put in. The games aren't perfect at this, but they at least give the girls either a back story or character development for you to understand why certain actions are being taken.

 

[vandimar77]

Hope you like Brutal Legend, at least the part which brings on the classic Heavy Metal, no Linkin Park or Slipknot crap (At least in the relevant part).

The female characterization was not a problem in the Fallout days, when having a female character was the same as a male. Probably because even a slight attempt at showing tits would result in 6 skin-color pixels and 1 red one in the center. Maybe one day in the future, history books will say that the last relevant female character was dated 2003 and was called Farah.

Actually, if you play as a woman in Fallout 3, you gain a slight advantage taking the Black Widower perk, because the majority of the in-game enemies are men. How's that for strong female leads?

I counter you by saying that I meant Fallout 1 & 2. I count 3 as another game (I'm not saying that it's bad, it's just a completely new game.

Also, if you've done your homework, the Black Widow works on about 10 male characters and 7 females, all of which are really useless, as you can always achieve the same thing with the perk as without. It just requires some more time.

Don't the Black Widow and Ladykiller perks give you a damage bonus against all enemies of the opposite gender though. I thought that they did but I don't have Fallout 3 so I can't remember for sure.

 

[Woodsey]

It's because of the badder-man arse hole male leads we sometimes get, so the only way to make a woman equal to this is to make them exactly the same but with chebs.

I mean come on, most men aren't like that.

 

[monnes]

The only games I've played with strong, beliveable and interesting female protagonists were The Longest Journey or Dreamfall: The Longest Journey, i think Ragnar Tornquist is a really strong character writer

 

[[wcip]Angel]

Long time fan, first time poster. Location: Stavanger, Norway.

Love both the Zero- and the Extra Punctuation bits. I can see how the average internet-dweller might find video a more pleasurable medium than text.

On-topic:

Yatzee makes a fair(ly obvious) point. But even though it is obvious to most of us that female characters ought deserve the same type of characterisation as male ones, developers need to hit major demographics for their product to sell. If the average gamer sees something he doesn't understand (like a properly characterised female character), he might be jarred to the point of being offended, disappointed, angered, or worse.

Sadly, developers have to cater to the lowest common denominator, which, when it comes to the topic of female characters in games, means T&A (Tits & Attitude). It's feminism combined with extreme political correctness that produce these awfully, hilariously unlikeable characters. We see them in movies, television shows, and yes in real life. Actual girls and women have been fooled into thinking men actually like this type of woman.

As for exceptions to the rule, I think of Uncharted, Silent Hill, Resident Evil and Metal Gear Solid as game series containing a few memorable female characters that were both strong, yet conflicted, beautiful and compassionate. Half Life II and Fahrenheit (Indigo Prophecy, Americans) also contained these types of characters, if I remember correctly. I see Alyx has already been mentioned in a previous post.

I must admit, I am looking forward to Heavy Rain. The French seem to have got this one down. Can't wait for the ZP-review either

 

[epsilon246]

Nicely written.

I have never seen a tough female character done very well. The only one who came near it was Lara Croft, but- as you mentioned- her vicious tendency to steal the eyeballs from your sockets didn't seem appealing to me.

I have to say I agree. My favorite girl in gaming is Samus, and she spends most of her ime in an armour suit. Why? because she has a rich backstory, how are you supposed to relate to someone you know nothing about? (For much the same reason I actually prefer Shadow to sonic.) It kinda helps that she's kickass to.

While I do agree that Samus is more to what the tough female lead should be like, Samus doesn't really count because her femininity is minimized because of her armor and the lack of any human features while she is wearing it. This might change now that Team Ninja is working on the next Metroid game, but it doesn't seem likely from early footage. While we recently have seen Samus kick ass in her Zero Suit, it's her Power Suit that defines her, not her gender.

The same could be said for Master Chief if his identity weren't confirmed. While the books do a better job of fleshing out the Spartans, they're still mostly about killing the things they've been pointed at. Also, pointing at the books is cheating abit if you're going to talk about video games.

For whatever reason, Sting seems to be able to write strong female characters. Riviera, Yggdra Union and Knights in the Nightmare all have strong female characters that hold their own in battle and the last two titles even have a girl as the main character. While Riviera and Yggdra Union have a girl get kidnapped, it's admittedly done by beings with god-loke powers, so there's some excuse for the distress the damsel has been put in. The games aren't perfect at this, but they at least give the girls either a back story or character development for you to understand why certain actions are being taken.

You have seen her armour, it's design is actually based on a styalised version of our muscles (that doesn't quite sound right but it's the closest i can get it). Anyway she's taken off her armour in most of the games, and it (mostlly) subtly shows her curves which is far more apealling then dime a dozen outfits some charechters wear. I see what you mean about team ninja, they could well bring out her feminen side will still being utterly kickass. I also get the suit defining her, but that's the warrior she's trained to be zero suit shows the human. As for the chief he's not excactly thee most...err... crud can't describe it.

And you lost me completely with that last paragraph.