What actually makes an RPG an RPG?

[Treblaine]

While other kinds of video game genres/styles/types can be defined quite well it doesn't seem there is any solid definition for what a Role Playing Game actually is.

The literal definition is useless; "playing a role" almost every non-RTS game has that, Half Life you are playing the role of Gordon Freeman, most First and Third person shooters, plat-formers, fighters, it's all about "playing" a "role" of some sort. Unless I am missing some semantic distinction of "role".

now obviously, there are games that are RPGs, like: Final Fantasy 6

And obviously those that are not: Time Crisis

But of all the "official" definitions no one is able to say what is not-RPG-enough

But what about in the middle? Where does it stop being and RPG and become a... wait what is the antithesis of "RPG"? Arcade Game? See this is my problem with the term

-Is Super Metroid an RPG?

-or Symphony of the Night?

-or Bioshock?

-or Doom 3 even? Why not if not?

-or is any game where you have a large persistent arsenal and items?

Or is the real determining factor the element of being able to change your character stats permanently in some conscious and measured way? Is that enough?

IB4 someone says this is an RPG:

There, the joke has been made. Move on.

 

[Togs]

To me at least the problem is that the classical (i.e. tabletop) definition of RPG's and digital ones are so radically different nowadays as to have little in common, and some people seem to refuse to recognise this.

For the digital ones RPG is really the wrong word for it, you no more play a role then you do in any other game, instead the mechanical aspects (e.g. leveling, loot, gear, skills, stats) are the identifying hallmarks.

 

[synobal]

An rpg is defined by choice unless you have choices that effect the story of the game it's not an RPG.

 

[Nimcha]

The definition seems to have shifted towards games with a large focus on storytelling and conversation, and a progressive leveling system of some kind. And even that seems to cover more games each year.

I don't think it's very healthy to get hung up over definitions in a field that changes so quickly from year to year almost.

 

[Togs]

I recognized the difference, hell i even made a topic about it.
But these days RPG is just a muddled word that has no more meaning, and i was SEVERELY disappointd in the gaming communities intrest in becoming specific about such games driving by such mechanics.


However if you dont care that I elaborate,
I love ROLL playing games
Where the characters attacks damages and movements are based on STATS and DICEROLLS.
DiceRPG are fun. My favorite example of these games are Xenosaga Ep2 and Final Fantasy 12.
(Dice Roll Playing Game)
Yup thats the new word i made of for the subgenre of RPGs that rely on stats and dicerolls.
DiceRPGs.

Glad to know someone agrees, but to me at least the name "DiceRPG" needs more work.

 

[Treblaine]

To me at least the problem is that the classical (i.e. tabletop) definition of RPG's and digital ones are so radically different nowadays as to have little in common, and some people seem to refuse to recognise this.

For the digital ones RPG is really the wrong word for it, you no more play a role then you do in any other game, instead the mechanical aspects (e.g. leveling, loot, gear, skills, stats) are the identifying hallmarks.

What do you mean by levelling? Do you actually have to have numbered levels to go up?

What do you mean by loot? Do you mean "shit you find on the ground" or do you mean actively searching corpses/boxes to find a bunch of stuff?

What do you mean by Gear and skills? Do you mean any items or abilities that can be added to your character?

Do the stats have to be numbered? IS it only an RPG if the Stats are in game, that if you have to check a separate website to know that a certain thing has a 15% boost?

Because by this... Call of Duty's online multiplayer is an RPG!

You've got the levelling with ranks to unlock more abilities.

You've got looting to a small extent with scavenger, weapon pick ups but especially care packages.

You have got gear and skills with the perks that variously increase your speed reloading, strength controlling recoil or items like Tactical mask, bandoleer, etc.

The stats are there, very in depth though you usually need to go online for any meaningful comparison but they ARE there and are a huge consideration.

Sure the emphasis is on action but the engagements are so fast paced just a small advantage makes all the difference to who wins each confrontation, is COD an Action RPG?!?

 

[somonels]

Depth.
(not some Bioshock pun, which isn't an RPG)

 

[Togs]

What do you mean by levelling? Do you actually have to have numbered levels to go up?

What do you mean by loot? Do you mean "shit you find on the ground" or do you mean actively searching corpses/boxes to find a bunch of stuff?

What do you mean by Gear and skills? Do you mean any items or abilities that can be added to your character?

Do the stats have to be numbered? IS it only an RPG if the Stats are in game, that if you have to check a separate website to know that a certain thing has a 15% boost?

Because by this... Call of Duty's online multiplayer is an RPG!

You've got the levelling with ranks to unlock more abilities.

You've got looting to a small extent with scavenger, weapon pick ups but especially care packages.

You have got gear and skills with the perks that variously increase your speed reloading, strength controlling recoil or items like Tactical mask, bandoleer, etc.

The stats are there, very in depth though you usually need to go online for any meaningful comparison but they ARE there and are a huge consideration.

Sure the emphasis is on action but the engagements are so fast paced just a small advantage makes all the difference to who wins each confrontation, is COD an Action RPG?!?

well... yeah it kinda is, it utilises RPG mechanical aspects- why would that not make it on some level an RPG?

EDIT= Though yes your right a focus on story is another important characteristic.

 

[Collins254]

do you have a stat page? do you have levels? do you have choises that can swing both ways instead of just "do this because we say so so that is what you must do"

do you and the enemy have a health bar(or health points)?

generally most if not all of these must apply for an rpg so in that case
Bioshock isnot an rpg, its strait up fps with different ways of using weapons
Doom 3 from what i played of it i didnt see any rpg elements
i have not played the other 2 games so i cannot comment on them

oh and to clarify on choice i mean real choice like ME1 where

Spoiler

You have to choose to save either ashley or kaiden

Not

Spoiler

[Insert generic war game here] do we accomplish objective A B or C first then the others?

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Well, for me at least. The essential ingredients of an RPG are well defined, 3 dimensional characters who interact in a variety of ways with their environment and with each other (player choice in these actions is also crucial), all set in a large, richly detailed game world.

For example. I know a lot of people criticized Mass Effect 2 for not being enough of an RPG because there was less emphasis on stats, progression, and exploration. These are all valid points, but it never really bothered me because all the RPG elements that I considered most important in the first they had either kept the same or made them even deeper, such as the characterisation, conversation wheel and the branching story.

 

[Valkyrie101]

Games in which the story and characterisation take precedence over other aspects of gameplay, and the player is able to define and shape their own character to their liking and make meaningful choices, both in dialogue and action. Usually feature 'levelling-up' up or a similar method of persistent progression and performance-related statistics, though this isn't really necessary.

Not just numbers.

 

[CRRPGMykael]

Well,a Role Playing Game is a game that lets you MOTHERFUCKING ROLE PLAY and be the exact character that you want to be,with almost endless possibilities.Go play The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion or Fallout 3 or something.

 

[Treblaine]

To me at least the problem is that the classical (i.e. tabletop) definition of RPG's and digital ones are so radically different nowadays as to have little in common, and some people seem to refuse to recognise this.

For the digital ones RPG is really the wrong word for it, you no more play a role then you do in any other game, instead the mechanical aspects (e.g. leveling, loot, gear, skills, stats) are the identifying hallmarks.

I recognized the difference, hell i even made a topic about it.
But these days RPG is just a muddled word that has no more meaning, and i was SEVERELY disappointd in the gaming communities intrest in becoming specific about such games driving by such mechanics.


However if you dont care that I elaborate,
I love ROLL playing games
Where the characters attacks damages and movements are based on STATS and DICEROLLS.
DiceRPG are fun. My favorite example of these games are Xenosaga Ep2 and Final Fantasy 12.
(Dice Roll Playing Game)
Yup thats the new word i made of for the subgenre of RPGs that rely on stats and dicerolls.
DiceRPGs.

Team Fortress 2 does that. The damage of almost every weapon is on a dice-roll within a range of values though often modified with range factors.

Does that make Team Fortress 2 a "roll" playing game? In at least some way?

I know, TF2 is all about the action but if you don't consider the stats then you will die a lot before you discover by trial and error the best statistical combination - that you could have found by research - there are whole websites dedicated to analysis all the weapons variants in TF2 and how best they fare against each other.

Look at how the weapons variants are treated: +15% damage, -80% capacity, +100% fire rate.

Ono definition I heard is that an RPG is defined by having action that you are detached from, as in Final Fantasy style just tell then what and how to attack: absolutely no aiming, timing or manoeuvring on the player's part. I cannot agree with this.

But that surely defeats the very definition of the term RPG - ROLE PLAYING game. I always found supposed RPGs like Final Fantasy 7-10 to be more like Turn Based Tactics/Strategy than RPG games when it came to combat, it's all about stepping back to a god's eye view and ordering them around. I'm in no way playing the role of Could or Squall or any of their party members.

I'd much rather play something like Jagged Alliance or Commandoes.

 

[NathLines]

Your ability to customize the way you play the game in some way. Equipment, stats, skills, levels/experience and the like are often referred to as "RPG-elements".

Games that are very storydriven and have RPG-elements are usually simply called "RPGs" while games that just have RPG-elements tacked on are called "FPS RPGs", "Action RPGs" and so on.

 

[Jordi]

The RPG label is very vague and broad. I don't think many people would deny that Final Fantasy, Dragon Age: Origins and Fallout 3 are all RPGs, but they are very different. Since everybody is talking about different things when they say "RPG" the term is virtually meaningless now. It's really unfortunate though that companies like BioWare [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/112502-BioWare-Co-Founder-RPGs-Are-Becoming-Less-Relevant] take this to mean that the genre is dying and that they want to move on to other things. I would really like if they would have continued making games like BG, NWN, ID and DA:O (in addition to Mass Effect and possibly others).

Anyway, to answer the actual thread title: I think that the main thing that distinguishes RPGs from most other games is their emphasis on character skill rather than player skill. Other than that, RPGs often seem to focus more on story (with choice), characters, exploration, crafting and trading rather than action.

 

[TriggerHappyAngel]

Games with Races, Classes, Attributes and Skills I guess.

 

[Wuggy]

Role Playing Game is a tabletop game, like DnD or GURPS. Yep, I don't think any video game really is a RPG, it's just a term that has given to a "certain" (quotation marks because the lines are usually drawn into the sand) type of video games. For me, RPG is about collaborative storytelling, no video game has achieved that and it cannot be achieved in the near future.

 

[Togs]

I recognized the difference, hell i even made a topic about it.
But these days RPG is just a muddled word that has no more meaning, and i was SEVERELY disappointd in the gaming communities intrest in becoming specific about such games driving by such mechanics.


However if you dont care that I elaborate,
I love ROLL playing games
Where the characters attacks damages and movements are based on STATS and DICEROLLS.
DiceRPG are fun. My favorite example of these games are Xenosaga Ep2 and Final Fantasy 12.
(Dice Roll Playing Game)
Yup thats the new word i made of for the subgenre of RPGs that rely on stats and dicerolls.
DiceRPGs.

Glad to know someone agrees, but to me at least the name "DiceRPG" needs more work.

well I asked the entire escapist community yesterday but no one seemed co care.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.309144-I-propose-a-new-definition-for-games-based-on#12478228

I guess you could chime in
What other ways could we named these "dicerpgs?

Did you see The_Abhorrents post in it? seemed to settle the debate quite nicely IMO.