They are protesting the system in it's entirety. Not just the economic system, or the political system, or the system in any one country or group of countries, but the global meta system that has allowed %1 of the planets population to amass %99 of it's wealth. They're protesting not just for themselves, but for the fate of the planet and everyone on it. That's why it's hard to sum up or even understand what they're protesting, because it's so large it doesn't all fit into one's mind at once.
What are these people bitching about?
- Thread starter Quiet Stranger
- Start date
If I understand the situation correctly, it's all about the whole rich getting richer, poor getting poorer thing.
Well the main thing from a moderate point of view would be that we repealed and need to bring back Glass Steagall act, which separated investment and commercial banks, thus curbing the consequences of extreme greed. The main drive behind our current economic woes is deregulation. Booms and busts are normal in capitalism, but it's dragging out because since 1970 wages for the middle and upper class have stagnated while their productivity has increased. The average American worker today works harder for less pay then in past decades. Meanwhile, ever since Reagan's election, the wealthy have gone into super-class warfare mode for "trickle down economics" that widened the wealth gap.
To me it seems the main items are this:
THE STATE (AND STATES AROUND THE WORLD) ARE BEING BOUGHT AND SOLD AS CAPITAL ESSENTIALLY BY CORPORATIONS. PRIVATE WEALTHY HANDS ARE INCREASINGLY TAKING DEMOCRACY AWAY FROM THE PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF AUSTERITY AND "SOCIALIZE THE LOSSES PRIVATIZE THE PROFITS" (I.E. "WE FAIL YOU BAIL US OUT WITH TAXPAYER MONEY AND THEN WE DEMAND THE MIDDLE AND POOR SACRIFICE WHILE WE GIVE OURSELVES RAISES").
AMERICA NEEDS TO EARN THE TITLE OF "FIRST WORLD NATION" BY ACTUALLY ACTING LIKE ONE. GETTING UHC, UNIVERSAL EDUCATION, AND FAIR COMPENSATION IN TERMS OF LABOR LAWS/WAGES.
1% OF THE POPULATION (WHICH IS WHY WE ARE THE 99%) OWNS MORE WEALTH THAN THE REMAINING 99% AND THE STRATIFICATION IS ONLY GROWING WORSE.
However as an anarchist, I'm more in favor of this movement for the processes its organized by and the way it motivates people to direct action. "Small-government conservatives" and "libertarians" are authoritarians. They are expressly interested in slashing away at the foundations of democracy and the ability of the government to effectively execute the will of the people in any way, while maintaining and expanding the organs of state violence. In other words, they want a government that is expressly and only empowered to act as an enforcement arm for the capitalist class. The occupations are building a truly democratic and egalitarian system, and, surprise of surprises, it looks very much like what anarchists have been talking about for a long time. I never thought I'd see it and I've rarely been happier to be wrong.
The State and Capital have always worked hand in hand, and State "Socialism" is no better. I'm an anarcho-socialist that detests revolutionary Marxists and authoritarian communists for their vanguard attitude and belief in a need for hierarchy to end up with no hierarchy.
The truth is the 1% have fucked us in so many ways from so many angles its hard to have a coherent focused stance. But the main problem is the financial sector and the huge wealth disparity all the while a few tax raises or enforcing regulations is called "class warfare" while it's practiced through the violence of police and in the name of "austerity".
To me it seems the main items are this:
THE STATE (AND STATES AROUND THE WORLD) ARE BEING BOUGHT AND SOLD AS CAPITAL ESSENTIALLY BY CORPORATIONS. PRIVATE WEALTHY HANDS ARE INCREASINGLY TAKING DEMOCRACY AWAY FROM THE PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF AUSTERITY AND "SOCIALIZE THE LOSSES PRIVATIZE THE PROFITS" (I.E. "WE FAIL YOU BAIL US OUT WITH TAXPAYER MONEY AND THEN WE DEMAND THE MIDDLE AND POOR SACRIFICE WHILE WE GIVE OURSELVES RAISES").
AMERICA NEEDS TO EARN THE TITLE OF "FIRST WORLD NATION" BY ACTUALLY ACTING LIKE ONE. GETTING UHC, UNIVERSAL EDUCATION, AND FAIR COMPENSATION IN TERMS OF LABOR LAWS/WAGES.
1% OF THE POPULATION (WHICH IS WHY WE ARE THE 99%) OWNS MORE WEALTH THAN THE REMAINING 99% AND THE STRATIFICATION IS ONLY GROWING WORSE.
However as an anarchist, I'm more in favor of this movement for the processes its organized by and the way it motivates people to direct action. "Small-government conservatives" and "libertarians" are authoritarians. They are expressly interested in slashing away at the foundations of democracy and the ability of the government to effectively execute the will of the people in any way, while maintaining and expanding the organs of state violence. In other words, they want a government that is expressly and only empowered to act as an enforcement arm for the capitalist class. The occupations are building a truly democratic and egalitarian system, and, surprise of surprises, it looks very much like what anarchists have been talking about for a long time. I never thought I'd see it and I've rarely been happier to be wrong.
The State and Capital have always worked hand in hand, and State "Socialism" is no better. I'm an anarcho-socialist that detests revolutionary Marxists and authoritarian communists for their vanguard attitude and belief in a need for hierarchy to end up with no hierarchy.
The truth is the 1% have fucked us in so many ways from so many angles its hard to have a coherent focused stance. But the main problem is the financial sector and the huge wealth disparity all the while a few tax raises or enforcing regulations is called "class warfare" while it's practiced through the violence of police and in the name of "austerity".
Not sure what i am. English, think the liberals are too wishy washy and the conservatives too stuck up their own upper class arses (or in america, FUCK THE ECONOMY JESUS IS COMIN REAL SOON) to know what the fuck is going on. If you haven't been made redundant or crippled by taxes and bills you are incredibly lucky. Know what the current statistics in the UK are? half a million jobs, a million students unemployed. Do the math. Oh did i mention 3000 jobs were lost in the past year in my town a alone because of firms and companies going bust? Wanna say "shut up baby?" go ahead. You know who's the big childish fuckhole? I will let you take a guess. Rant over, no that wasn't directed at you will i'm just getting annoyed by calous retards posting in the thread just to annoy me.Sup I said:
I live in the Vancouver area, and the newspaper I've read states: 'The protesters claim they will not leave the area of the Vancouver art gallery unless "change happens".'
I'm guessing it's just stupid people with too much free time loafing together so it looks like they're actually doing something.
I'm guessing it's just stupid people with too much free time loafing together so it looks like they're actually doing something.
If this is really what they want, then they're doing it completely wrong. Seriously, I thought they were pro-anarchy after someone told me it wasn't a joke/art show. (I saw them the night of Nocturn, Halifax's city-wide art show) You really, and truly have the best statement regarding what these people are trying to accomplish.Eve Charm said:
It's a shame they're all fucking idiots.
I think legendary hero Captain Obvious would like to butt in here: *ahem* None of them know what the hell they're trying to stop. They are probably just there because they have nothing better to do or they were bribed.
If only the protesters actually put effort into their signs like that. Maybe I'd take them seriously.Irridium said:People hate the fact that the billionars who are the reason of the current recession get to keep all their money while everyone else gets fucked.
The general idea I can get behind. The fact that the people who are the cause of the recession got to keep their billions and even profited on it while everyone else got fucked is pretty fucked up. Quite a few of the people protesting seem to be pricks though.
Not quite. ReincarnatedFTP has the clearest picture of why they're protesting. The main problem is that they have a lot of reasons to be protesting, but they can't seem to agree on which one they're focusing on at the moment, which makes them look (and I'm sure you'll find this a shock) unfocused and vague, and not really sure what they're protesting.Tommeh Brownleh said:
The other problem is that, as I've seen pointed out in one or two places, Wall Street is the wrong place to occupy for this protest; Wall Street is as much a victim of what they're protesting as they are, and they should be occupying places that'll put pressure on legislators.
I can't speak for everyone, but from what I've gathered, they are pissed that the government gave money to the banks which then went on to foreclose on record amounts of homes leaving huge amounts of people homeless. They are pissed that our government gives tax breaks and incentives to huge corporations who then take jobs overseas and put Americans out of work. They are pissed that the top 1% make more money than god, but pay the lowest amount of taxes for the Rich we?ve seen since the first great depression. They are pissed that lobby and special interest groups hold so much power that Congress cares more about what Koch and Cisco wants instead of what the American citizen wants.Quiet Stranger said:
The middle class work force has been annihilated, jobs have been moved overseas in the name of company profit and structural mobility. We exist in a world where people who should be retired after working 50 years as a mid level manager are now having to work in the service industry to live paycheck to paycheck, hell you?re competing for a job at Burger King with the recently widowed 60 year old Buick executive.
Most likely if you?re posting on this forum you are young and technically savvy; yes you most likely will find a job in the service industry if you pass out a few applications. These demonstrators are fighting for something a little more, unless you?re not expecting to move beyond the service industry or line worker.
Whoa there, I'm a very strong Libertarian (classical Liberal, if you'd prefer), and I agree with you both completely. Government and business should not mix (at least where it is not needed) and should certainly not be bailing out and lining the pockets of assholes and their companies that are using flawed business practices.Sup I said:
unfortunately for everyone, we all kind of contributed to the bad economy, not one class, not one person, EVERYONE.Jodah said:
after all it takes two to tango.
Speaking of low IQ, it's "their" not "there" ... And "Work" not "wok"Sandor [The Hound said:
It's about the top 1% wealthiest American's control over the majority of the world's wealth and buying out the american government so they can pass the policies that only help them and screw the common citizens. Unfortunately, a lot of americans are blind to the truth because they can't stop watching Fox News.
MY money is the low IQ.
They blame hyper-capitalism, and wall street practices for the current recession, not without reason.Quiet Stranger said:
Meh. It's a hollow effort with no clear agenda or infrastructure. The idea is that people are protesting the high unemployment, disproportionate wealth allocation, and general corporate lack of ethics, but they're just protesting the concepts rather than any actual issues.Quiet Stranger said:
If anything, they're hurting any actual causes there might be. Robert Reich [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTzMqm2TwgE&feature=player_embedded] very nicely condensed and explained the issues that the 'Occupy Wall Street' crowd should be addressing...but instead, they're just protesting that corporations are just in it to make money. And when you protest that alone, the planets align and solar radiation renders Fox News correct when they say that you're attacking the basic principle of capitalism.
Obviously a big part of the problem is that there are a bunch of different agendas mixed in with the protesting group, and as as result nobody gets a clear and actionable message out. With no clear message to communicate, the media only gives it coverage when it finds other "newsworthy" angles (ie: clashes with police, public disturbance, etc).
There are probably some legitimate grievances mixed in with all the tilting at windmills, and some of them might even get some traction and action if they could be separated from the pack. With the way the whole thing has been organised though, it doesn't seem likely to happen and the longer it drags on without clear messages being communicated, the further marginalised the movement will become.
There are probably some legitimate grievances mixed in with all the tilting at windmills, and some of them might even get some traction and action if they could be separated from the pack. With the way the whole thing has been organised though, it doesn't seem likely to happen and the longer it drags on without clear messages being communicated, the further marginalised the movement will become.
See here's the thing, what do you want people to do? The world ain't gonna change cause people are bitching about it on the internets, and it ain't changing cause everything else is going to hell.BeerTent said:
This is people, not just on wallstreet or wherever you saw them, all across not only the country, but the world coming out of there god damn houses, putting themselves into ACTUAL harm, may it be police, weather or whatever else gets thrown their way.
This is the only way, people think they can change their country, their world peacefully, with a movement like this. Probably about 30000-60000 people have been out protesting with the same movements, the same messages across the world together and more just keep coming. union and anti war protests and college walkout joining them it's growing faster.
How many people is it going to take to change the world without violence or at least friggen listen? 100,000? 500,000? hell it takes 1 guy to make everyone take off their shoes at an airport out of violence to change the god damn world!