What do people think about Bioware right now?

[Windcaler]

Bioware is probably my favorite company out there right now. However I think what were seeing is a change in direction for their company and game design choices. Think about how the first mass effect was more of an RPG shooter and how with ME2 it went to more of a shooter with RPG elements. We saw something similar with Dragon Age 2 as well where the design was moved toward a game with RPG elements rather then a pure RPG

Personally I dont think Dragon age 2 was the train wreck that others claim it was. Ill agree that I dont think it was as good as DA:O but in the same sense that I dont think a Ferarri is as good a Lamborghini, theyre both solid for what theyre trying to be its just one model is IMO better then the other. Now theres talk of Bioware wanting to make the next Dragon age more open world like Skyrim which is IMO the most logical improvement they can make. I have always thought that if their games lacked anything it was the ability to explore more areas but to be fair this also runs the risk of letting the story and roleplaying aspects of their game be less tight.

As far as the call of duty thing goes...this reminds me of when space marine came out. Relic is a company that has made RTS games set in the warhammer 40k universe for a long time and theyre very good IMO (I actually enjoy DOW2 more then starcraft 2). When space marine was coming out a lot of people complained about this change in direction and while I can understand concerns I think that companies need to have the freedom to try new things. A new style of game does not by default spell out the downfall of a company. In fact creative expression and trying new things can only help a company to find better ways to make games. I think its a little silly to say a game that would appeal to CoD fans is just money grubbing or the fall of bioware, especially when we dont know a thing about that game. We dont know if its going to be a MMS or a RPG revolving around an MMS setting or what. If its the latter then I definately think Bioware will create a great game, if the former then maybe or maybe not. I dont think theyve done a FPS game yet so its impossible to make a judgement on the quality or design direction

 

[Hides His Eyes]

Bioware is probably my favorite company out there right now. However I think what were seeing is a change in direction for their company and game design choices. Think about how the first mass effect was more of an RPG shooter and how with ME2 it went to more of a shooter with RPG elements. We saw something similar with Dragon Age 2 as well where the design was moved toward a game with RPG elements rather then a pure RPG

Personally I dont think Dragon age 2 was the train wreck that others claim it was. Ill agree that I dont think it was as good as DA:O but in the same sense that I dont think a Ferarri is as good a Lamborghini, theyre both solid for what theyre trying to be its just one model is IMO better then the other. Now theres talk of Bioware wanting to make the next Dragon age more open world like Skyrim which is IMO the most logical improvement they can make. I have always thought that if their games lacked anything it was the ability to explore more areas but to be fair this also runs the risk of letting the story and roleplaying aspects of their game be less tight.

As far as the call of duty thing goes...this reminds me of when space marine came out. Relic is a company that has made RTS games set in the warhammer 40k universe for a long time and theyre very good IMO (I actually enjoy DOW2 more then starcraft 2). When space marine was coming out a lot of people complained about this change in direction and while I can understand concerns I think that companies need to have the freedom to try new things. A new style of game does not by default spell out the downfall of a company. In fact creative expression and trying new things can only help a company to find better ways to make games. I think its a little silly to say a game that would appeal to CoD fans is just money grubbing or the fall of bioware, especially when we dont know a thing about that game. We dont know if its going to be a MMS or a RPG revolving around an MMS setting or what. If its the latter then I definately think Bioware will create a great game, if the former then maybe or maybe not. I dont think theyve done a FPS game yet so its impossible to make a judgement on the quality or design direction

Sorry but I don't see how it's not money grubbing for a company that makes fantasy and sci fi RPGs to want to make their games appeal to fans of the Modern Warfare series. It's something totally different. If they were saying that about a totally new game that would be one thing (if a bit strange). But they said they want to move an existing franchise in the direction of something that could hardly be more different from what it is, from what the fans liked to begin with. And they seem to be doing the same with Mass Effect from what I've heard.

As I've said, I'm all for developers experimenting and trying new things. But that's not what this is. How can you hear them say "We designed DA2 to appeal to the Modern Warfare fans" and see that as anything other than a cynical cash-grab brought on by jealousy of someone else's market?

I have often heard fans complaining that they feel they've been cheated or something because a game wasn't what they expected, and I always thought that was stupid. But now I know the feeling. I bought a lot of Bioware games, I spent a lot of time playing their games. I felt they knew what they were about and understood the appeal of deep, complex, story-driven RPGs as opposed to action games. So this just feels like a slap in the face.

 

[endtherapture]

I think Bioware still have the potential for really great games, shown by Dragon Age, just they are being shackled by EA.

You can see the release quality drop massively for games developed fully under EA like DA2.

If they were free from a publisher and free to explore and do whatever they want (like Obsidian) they'd be back to their old ways.

Occasionally, just have everyone from Bioware leave for Obsidian or Bethesda so they're not shackled by EA. And make the best games ever.

 

[Hides His Eyes]

Oh also, in response to "especially when we dont know a thing about that game", yes we do. That game was DA2, that's what Bioware said about it when it came out.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

To me, there are two branches of Bioware.

One makes Mass Effect, a third person shooter with great dialog and RPG elements. I like this branch of Bioware.

The other makes Dragon Age, a series that has ranged from painfully mediocre at best to absolutely shit at worst, and employs this monstrosity.

Spoiler: Uh-oh.

The Dragon Age branch sucks. The Mass Effect branch is good. I buy the Mass Effect games. I do my best to stay away from the Dragon Age games.

So there you have it, thats my thoughts on Bioware.

(Ignoring the KOTOR MMO completely since its just another WoW clone with absolutely no compelling features apart from a better story than other MMOs.)

Correction, the Dragon Age Branch WAS good, when Brent Knowles was still working for them. But after he saw the direction DA2 was going in, as well as the company on the whole, he quit.

And I'm not feeling very optimistic about ME3 either. That whole preview they had with the Reaper fighting a Thresher Maw was visually stunning. What was the objective for the actual gameplay? Run through a corridor and press a button.

 

[Gizmo1990]

In general, I think they've grown too big and stretched the original team that made Bioware great too thin. Add to this the oversight by EA which has pushed them into several questionable directions and it's not looking too great...

Mass Effect 2 was a good game. But even here, the damage was starting to show. The main plot was kinda crap (and by "kinda" I mean "real fucking") and the RPG elements were a bit too streamlined. However, the gameplay was better, the subpolots were good, the characters were interesting and the excellent background of the ME universe held it together.

Then came Dragon Age 2. This is where it became evident that there was a problem. The game simply didn't have the production values or the quality that other Bioware games had. It was inferior to Dragon Age 1 in visuals, writing, plot, characters, gameplay, pretty much every department. The cut corners were pleantiful and obvious, with content being reused over and over and over again. Add to this a very small number of locations (which were also reused constantly), lazy combat design (nonsensical wave combat and health-bloated bosses) and a slew of other problems, you get a game that was obviously rushed by Bioware's B- or C-list team.

The likely reason for that was that resources were being shifted to The Old Republic. Yes, at this point someone will tell me that those were separate teams. Maybe, but that doesn't mean that they can't put all the good designers and developers on the TOR team. Also, it doesn't say anything about the funding or deadlines. I'm sure the DA2 people did what they could with what they were given, which probably wasn't much.

Now TOR's come out, and while the general reception is positive, the complaints make it fairly obvious that it too was dumped out too soon, likely to meet the Christmas deadline. From what I understand, crafting was only implemented a month before release, and as a result it's utterly crap, with most crafting skills being pointless and one of the wto good ones (Slicing) had to be nerfed in the first patch for being too profitable. There are plenty of other pieces of evidence that the game was shoved out the door before it was ready, like a raid where someone forgot to change the placeholder names for enemies, so they're named Boss Beast 1, Boss Beast 2, etc.

All in all, it has me worried. Worried for ME3 and DA3. Worried that they've taken on yet another project (C&C:Generals 2). Worried that the Bioware that I am a fan of no longer exists, its members spread across a bunch of substudios under the direction of EA.

At this point it could go either way. In the near future it all hinges on Mass Effect 3 and how well they'll fix TOR. If Mass Effect 3 manages to at least match ME2 in overall quality, that would be a good start. If the fixes to the broken parts of TOR are swift (crafting, ability delay, bugged class quests) and they also manage to follow up with some much needed features (dual specs, UI customization, mod support) and more endgame content to satisfy the hardcore crowd, that would be another good sign.

In the long term, the question is what will happen with Dragon Age 3. The ME franchise didn't suffer such a terrible drop in quality, so I'm less worried about ME3. But DA3 has to make quite a few big changes in almost every aspect to save itself from the wreck of DA2...

I agree with everything you said. Mass Effect had it problems but I enjoyed the story, the same gos for DA:O but DA 2 was such a kick in the balls. Honestly I have never been more disappointed with a game (and I have played The Force Unleashed 2).

BTW I love your Avatar. Has to be one if not my most favorite Book series.

 

[x-machina]

I used to love em, then they ruined Dragon Age and Mass Effect. I have no intentions of picking Mass Effect 3, but on the other hand I am enjoying SWTOR quite a bit.

They have fallen from grace, and are now pretty much on the same level as most other developers. Don't really hate them, or love them.

 

[endtherapture]

Correction, the Dragon Age Branch WAS good, when Brent Knowles was still working for them. But after he saw the direction DA2 was going in, as well as the company on the whole, he quit.

Does anyone know what Brent Knowles is doing right now?

It would be a terrible loss for gaming if he quit completely, I hope he's working for a good company and publisher which values his input.

 

[endtherapture]

Correction, the Dragon Age Branch WAS good, when Brent Knowles was still working for them. But after he saw the direction DA2 was going in, as well as the company on the whole, he quit.

Does anyone know what Brent Knowles is doing right now?

It would be a terrible loss for gaming if he quit completely, I hope he's working for a good company and publisher which values his input.

 

[Vindictus]

Yay, another thread where everybody bashes Dragon Age 2 again.

And I'm not feeling very optimistic about ME3 either. That whole preview they had with the Reaper fighting a Thresher Maw was visually stunning. What was the objective for the actual gameplay? Run through a corridor and press a button.

Seriously? You're judging gameplay through a single video that was released purely to make you think "woah, that's cool". Are you suggesting that every section in ME3 is going to be corridor running and button pressing? Very illogical.

(Ignoring the KOTOR MMO completely since its just another WoW clone with absolutely no compelling features apart from a better story than other MMOs.)

You're ignorant or you haven't played SWTOR. Having features from the most popular MMO of all time does not make SWTOR a WoW clone. You want an example of a WoW clone? Go play Rift. SWTOR is different enough to break out of that idiotic label.

Silly people aside, I'm looking forward to what they're doing with Dragon Age and Mass Effect (after Shephard). I hope they don't drop a dues ex machina in ME3 as people have been speculating, that's the only thing that could ruin it for me. Apart from that, I'll always enjoy Bioware games so long as they stick with their ethos of 'designing games with a story'.

 

[Ixal]

Bioware went down the drain.

First Dragon Age 2 was a horrible piece of garbage and single handedly destroyed the franchise in an attempt to capture the CoD players with its "awesome button" design. And now ME3 will also be dumbed down to a corridor shooter with cutscenes. The only people not "knowing" this are the fanboys who defend it with "Bioware just doesn't want to post spoilers so they just don't show all the RPG stuff" (The same fanboys who said "Its Dragon Age 2, not Dragon Age: Origins 2")

And in addition to CoDifining ME3, they also force the coop multiplayer down the players throat with the "Galactic Readiness" tie into the single player. And you can bet that all the talk about "you can achieve the best ending without playing coop" will come down to "grind this boring resource scanning/repeatable mission".

Tor also shows that Bioware is in over their heads. "Oh no, we have low level players opening chests on Illum. Ban them!"

Bioware now is a 100% daughter from EA and we all know what that means. SO far EA managed to destroy every studio they got their hands on.
"Luckily" I am not even tempted to buy a single Bioware game any more thanks to Origin.

 

[Windcaler]

Oh also, in response to "especially when we dont know a thing about that game", yes we do. That game was DA2, that's what Bioware said about it when it came out.

In that case I misunderstood you. I had never heard bioware say anything like that but to be fair I dont follow development of their games all that much. I just play the hell out of them after release. I thought we were talking about an upcoming game, not one that had been released yet. Although I have to wonder how exactly DA2 is supposed to appeal to MMS fans...the logic of that comparison just escapes me but just because I dont understand the logic doesnt mean I can jump to "money grubbing" as the answer

Still it goes back to creative expression and trying new things which companies should be able to do. Going way back in time Super mario bros 2 was vastly different from the original. Then they went back to the original style with Super mario bros 3 because fans enjoyed that more. Come to think of it the original 3 Castlevania's were like that too. Its not like we havnt seen this kind of thing in video game history before.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Yay, another thread where everybody bashes Dragon Age 2 again.

And I'm not feeling very optimistic about ME3 either. That whole preview they had with the Reaper fighting a Thresher Maw was visually stunning. What was the objective for the actual gameplay? Run through a corridor and press a button.

Seriously? You're judging gameplay through a single video that was released purely to make you think "woah, that's cool". Are you suggesting that every section in ME3 is going to be corridor running and button pressing? Very illogical.

What is the point of releasing a video if we suddenly aren't allowed to make assumptions based off it? It's the same thing with a demo. They are used to give you an idea of what the game is going to be like.

What I see there is a game so caught up with its fancy visuals that the gameplay seems trite in comparison.

What I saw in the Dragon Age 2 Demo was a steaming hunk of shit. Sorry the world doesn't conform to your opinion.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well it's a lot like Metallica for me, was a huge fan of their old ways and now they are rapidly changing that.

They still do some good story but even that is coming in smaller packages with every release, it could very well be I will only watch walktroughs of their next titles.
It's a shame, but all good things come to an end.

 

[Ixal]

Yay, another thread where everybody bashes Dragon Age 2 again.

And I'm not feeling very optimistic about ME3 either. That whole preview they had with the Reaper fighting a Thresher Maw was visually stunning. What was the objective for the actual gameplay? Run through a corridor and press a button.

Seriously? You're judging gameplay through a single video that was released purely to make you think "woah, that's cool". Are you suggesting that every section in ME3 is going to be corridor running and button pressing? Very illogical.

How about all the other videos which also only shows corridors, shooting and some Gears of War melee finishers? How about that video showing a rail shooter sequence? How about the demo you could play at Gamescom (I did) featuring corridors and shooting?

Heck they even added a "action mode" to the game which does all dialogue choices for you.

 

[Yureina]

Bioware is rapidly losing the once high opinion I held for it. After the glory days of Baldur's Gate and KOTOR, it really has seemed to slip. Mass Effect 1/2 were good, but Dragon Age to me is a shit quasi-remake of Baldur's Gate that is far inferior to the original. And now with Bioware being used as a tool for EA to push their own selfish "fuck the players" agenda (Origin, lots of shit DLC's, "broadening appeal", etc), I have become seriously disenchanted with them. For a game that I had been so seriously looking forward to until EA started pulling its bullshit, ME3 may very well be the last Bioware - and EA - game I ever play.

I blame EA for Bioware's downfall. Fuck those guys.