What do you have against The Witcher series?

[The Madman]

Some people just really love to hate this series. I remember around when Witcher 2 came out there was someone, I forget their name but they had a butterfly as their avatar, and they absolutely loathed the game with such bitterness and venom it was almost impressive. They weren't shy about talking about it either, if The Witcher was so much as whispered they'd be there to voice their opinion, guaranteed. Then you've got the usual cast of people posting their dislike of the game alongside the apathetic shrugs of others and if you were to judge from The Escapist comments alone you'd think the Witcher series were the among worst thing to ever come out of the videogame industry with only a minority of fans.

For my own part I really like the series. I think both Witcher games have some very serious pacing issues sometimes and that the writing could definitely be sharpened up alongside the gameplay, but overall both the Witcher games I found to be thoroughly enjoyable. The visuals in 2 are spectacular and some of the decisions you have to make are extremely compelling, one of very few series that's made me genuinely conflicted over what I should do in a scenario not because of sweet loots or epic rewards, but because I genuinely don't know what the right thing to do is or even if there is a right thing to do.

That's pretty admirable, I can't think of many other games that have done that for me.

I never minded the combat in either game so that was never an issue even if I didn't find either game spectacular in that regard either. Throw in some beautiful music and I'm satisfied. Good games, I can't wait for Witcher 3. If it's nearly as much of an improvement over 2 as 2 was over the first it's going to be pretty impressive indeed.

 

[Dandark]

I enjoyed the second but I haven't yet been able to get back to it. This is because I want to finish the first game before I start the second again but I just haven't been able to plow through it yet.

I got up the first city you enter, did some stuff and then went to the nearby swamp. I seemed to be doing alright until I got completely wrecked by a plant. I assume it was too high level or something since it just tanked and murdered me each time even with potions but I haven't been able to get back into it since then. I know that i'll have to start the first game from the beginning to get back into it but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[Alex1508]

I only played the second so i'll comment on that one. I loved the politcal intrigue that spins around the whole narrative, the ambiguity the sorrounds many of the characters and their motivations.......and this is just about it story wise. One big problem i have with the narrative is it's commitment to grey morality chioces basically amounting to the same thing either way. Want to kill Henselt? well his entire country falls into a civil war just as bloody as his reign thanks to his lack of children. You don't kill Henselt? Well he continues his rule of terror which is just as bloody as the aforementioned civil war. I understand this is a deliberate narrative choice tied to the game's central ideea but unfortunately it makes it a non-choice for me. At least towards the end you actually can make a positive difference for once but the choices you didn't take end so horribly that....ugh.

Speaking of which....the absolutely unrelenting barrage of grimdark and "maturity". I understand this is a very brutal and crappy world to live in Witcher now stop hammering this down my throat every 10 minutes. You can go a bit without rape, homophobia, sexism, murder, sex, drugs, cursing, brutality, etc etc. For me it ends up just overloading the atmosphere with barely any breathing space inbetween.

There's also the fact that all female characters seem to have boob windows for some reason. Double points if you're Saskia and you have boob window armor and metal corset to keep the bad boys nice and perky or Ves, the only woman and high ranking officer of the temerian special forces, strutting around in the medieval equivalent of Miranda lawsons pants and ofc Samaras plunging boob window.......keep it consistent CDProjekt. If you ,clearly , put so much effort into the game world design, featuring so many lovingly realistic and medieval inspired locations, clothes and weaponry, don't skimp out on the female designs just because you need sexy women and breasts so you can make it "mature".

Oh and since we are on this subject...why are all the women having intimate relationships with other women presented so voyeuristically and the only gay male character is presented (especially during his death scene) in such a homophobic light? Important distinction: not suffering homophobia at the hands of other characters but being designed after the "depraved homosexual" trope. I mean seriously, Deathmold is a horrible character but his death scene just takes the cake...ugh. So he's very effeminate, talks about fashion, polishes his nails, he's physically very weak, he has wooden dildos displayed in his room, he's clearly forced his lover to have sex with him so he's also a rapist oh and his lover looks like a taller version of Gollum cause gay sex is disgusting. Oh and he dies by having his throat slit, castrated and then his genitalia shoved in his mouth.......oh wow CDprojekt stay classy, then again you are a eastern european company and unfortunately this is how eastern europe portays gay men, i suffer enough of this bullshit daily to recognize it.

There's also the characters. They are generally well written and complex and in theory i thought i would love them and their interactions. Well, nope. Compared to the dragon age cast (hell even the second game) they are incredibly charmless and wooden and the interactions inbetween them even less so. They also tend to suffer from the let's make everything morally grey syndrome. Basically put everyone is a terrible person in one way or the other. Almost everyone. It all blends up in a giant grey goop of...greyness. I guess it's telling why my favourite characters from the game where those who were complete outliers in that regard, such as the small ray of joy that is Dandelion (thank god he exists to inject some happiness in this game) and Saskia (freedom fighter with strong moral code? ok i'm in).

Then there's the gameplay. I didn't have problems with the swordplay, i like the weight and timing behind your attacks, however the potion system, while true to the lore, is just a horrible hassle. When you are in the open world and have a good indication you'll enter a monster spawning area it's okay but during the more railroaded sections expecially before bosses like the Draugr, boss battles where your potions would be essential.....your control is superseded by unexpected cutscenes that pop up and throw you right into the battle with no moment to prepare.

I guess i rambled enough at this point. There's much i should like about the game but i have too many contention points with it to fully enjoy it. Also Deathmolds death scene was my ME3 ending, it really killed my interest.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

It's kind of... boring and uninteresting.

Honestly, I remember being thrown into a cliche interrogation, and then a shitty 'PICK THE FLASHBACK OF EVENTS YOU'RE UNFAMILIAR WITH, FILLED WITH CHARACTERS YOU DON'T KNOW OR MOTIVATIONS FOR A WORLD YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WITH LITTLE OR NO TIME TO GET A BAD PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT'S GOING ON'.

And, I just couldn't care. The Witcher guy is boring, and I honestly don't even know what a Witcher is. But everyone acts as if I SHOULD know what a Witcher is, and what is weird deal is, and I don't. 'Cause I didn't play the original. And yeah, maybe shame on me, but a bunch of other RPG's don't throw a shitstorm at you without at least a bit of set up.


I mean, I remember following it, but then I remember being bored out of my mind because I couldn't care. Who was the asshole who died? Why should I care? Was he good? Everyone in the flashbacks is a asshat, so, probably not.

Then there was the shitty gameplay. Haha. Yeah, no. This sucks. I still don't see why a silver sword stabbed into some guy is less effective then a iron sword. I mean, people are fleshy, and they die. And why do I need to stab a dog with a silver sword for more effect over a iron and fuck this.

 

[Arina Love]

i have a hard time getting in to a W-RPG where i don't make my character. I find Witcher characters and story boring. Combat is awful. World building is nonexistent, no reason to care about anything.

 

[jklinders]

I rather enjoyed the first game to be honest. I sunk a lot of hours into more than one playthrough. The combat was...yeah a little off but at the time I appreciated the effort at bridging the gap between a stat based combat system and actual player interaction. I think I was off of a playthrough of one of the Neverwinter Nights games or something at the time. my main issues were the character animation being fairly horrid and a couple of weird story gates in the second act that didn't strictly need to be there.

I did like how the game didn't really hold your hand and let you figure things out and the alchemy system.

The second game was both a step up and a step down for me. It was downright ballsy to lock away close to half the game behind a decision in the first act. The did a better job of making the Scoiteal more sympathetic in the second one too. I wanted to pimp slap Yaevann so bad in the first one for being exactly the snobbish obnoxious prick that the racist humans accused all elves of being. Iorveth on the other hand was a lot more interesting and believable, only slightly beat out by Roche in who I wanted to hang out with the rest of the game. Sadly that gave me the crappier ending I think.

Now CD Project Red flat out impressed me with Flotsam. It is hands down the most lived in, alive and believable settlement I have ever seen in a game. The day night cycle was superb. Everybody seemed to have not only a routine but a role aside from just being there for decoration.

Sadly the game's pacing slowed down a lot in act 2 after the big decision. The final act was so short I barely remember anything noteworthy in it.

I felt there was a a lot of good and bad in both games. I found the setting to be nice balance between the fluffy light Lord of the Rings and A song of Ice and Fire (which is wayyyyy too grimdark for me). I feel that the various players and cast in these games function as they should. Though the main cast needed a bit more work.

 

[Darknacht]

I only played the first one and only probably about 6 hours of it and I liked many of the mechanics, but it seemed to be a 15 year olds version of what is 'mature' and in the end the mechanics that I liked where not enough to make up for that.
I will admit that it is better the the Mass Effect series where everything seemed like it was a 13 year olds version of what is 'mature.'

 

[happyninja42]

I couldn't get past the actual gameplay. I picked up The Witcher and its sequel during a Steam sale a few months back and the combat just feels clunky as all hell.

Normally I'm a "Story/Characters > All Else" type of gamer... but that requires story/characters that I find compelling enough to get past any issues that I may have with the gameplay. In the case of this series, I found both to be more of the same fairly generic fantasy that I can get out of a dozen other games that don't have gameplay that annoys the hell out of me.

Full disclosure though, I'm not super fond of fantasy settings. I'm much more of a Sci-Fi fan. So I tend to be much less forgiving when it comes to the story/characters of a fantasy game than I would be otherwise. They have to be something pretty special for me to find them compelling.

Pretty much this for me. I too bought both games on a sale for 6 bucks, and couldn't finish Act 1 of Witcher 1. It's just so dull, so cliche, and the game design isn't at all helpful. The combat is lame, the racetrack map of paths I'm forced to run on make it literally like I'm running a race, going around in circles along those village paths. The overdone "I've got amnesia as the protagonist, so please explain everything to the player through me" makes me want to eat my controller. The terrible voice acting, the terrible writing, the lack of any real investment in anything going on. The game never made me give a shit about what was going on , I was just going through the motions because reasons.

Just overall, a bad game that I have no interest in playing, and I don't plan on touching the second one either.

 

[ninja666]

Pretty much this for me. I too bought both games on a sale for 6 bucks, and couldn't finish Act 1 of Witcher 1. It's just so dull, so cliche, and the game design isn't at all helpful. The combat is lame, the racetrack map of paths I'm forced to run on make it literally like I'm running a race, going around in circles along those village paths. The overdone "I've got amnesia as the protagonist, so please explain everything to the player through me" makes me want to eat my controller. The terrible voice acting, the terrible writing, the lack of any real investment in anything going on. The game never made me give a shit about what was going on , I was just going through the motions because reasons.

Actually, the first act is the worst this game has to offer. After that it just gets better and better. I suggest you force yourself through the first act and give this game a second shot.

 

[happyninja42]

Pretty much this for me. I too bought both games on a sale for 6 bucks, and couldn't finish Act 1 of Witcher 1. It's just so dull, so cliche, and the game design isn't at all helpful. The combat is lame, the racetrack map of paths I'm forced to run on make it literally like I'm running a race, going around in circles along those village paths. The overdone "I've got amnesia as the protagonist, so please explain everything to the player through me" makes me want to eat my controller. The terrible voice acting, the terrible writing, the lack of any real investment in anything going on. The game never made me give a shit about what was going on , I was just going through the motions because reasons.

Actually, the first act is the worst this game has to offer. After that it just gets better and better. I suggest you force yourself through the first act and give this game a second shot.

No thanks. I'm not one to sit through a bad game for several hours on the offhand chance that "it gets better later". Because I've heard from other sources that it stays just as bad all the way through. Bottom line, I don't like the game, it's not interesting, the gameplay isn't fun, the characters/voice acting are terribly bland, and I have zero drive to load it up and trudge through it like it's some kind of obligation. Others like the game, that's fine, good for you guys, hope you enjoy playing the series. I'm not one of those people though.

 

[DSK-]

My issues with the games are relatively straight forward.

The first game in the series I enjoyed a fair amount, got past the first area and into the town and just sort of...stopped wanting to play. Some of the quests were interesting, but I didn't have a great deal of investment in the characters, although I remember being somewhat fond of a few. I could relate to Geralt a lot more in the first game than the second. He's kind of the anti-bioware hero; He isn't Shepard or a spirit monk or a Jedi/Sith, he's just a guy that people look down upon but still need because of the fact that he is a witcher, and begrudgingly people give him respect for that. I enjoyed the intro part of the first game too.

But in all honesty, every time I try and re-play Witcher 1 I end up stopping at roughly the same place, which is a shame. I'll also admit that one of my motivations for continuing to play the game was the "got-to-poke-them-all" cards.

As for the second, I'm honestly surprised I finished it. Holy shit was I absolutely bored to tears with it. The only character I had any inclination towards was Triss, and the only reason I played it to the end was to see how she fared. I dunno. Geralt just got screwed over time and time again and it got predictable and I just didn't care.

The graphics in both games I quite liked, and I appreciated the brightness and vividness of Witcher 2. I liked the stylisation of both games, too.

Perhaps I simply missed out on a lot of exposition and a lot of information by not completing the first game (and accidentally skipping the intro of the second because I had trouble with the game), or perhaps if I read the books I'd get more enjoyment out of it. Or maybe I'm a broken, joyless human being?

 

[Skin]

I've only played The Witcher 2, but I find the game mechanically lacking, especially in combat. First things first, the strength of the game was it's narrative. Apart from the Wild Hunt nonsense that Geralt would keep carrying on about (which I did not understand whatsoever), the overarching plot of The Assassin of Kings and the non-human rebellion was all interesting. It was a strong story unlike the $1 discount novel writing of series like Mass Effect. The characters were also good, especially making you choose Roache or Iorveth so early on. I really thought I was going to like Iorveth more, so I picked Roache for my first playthrough, and found that I actually liked Roache alot more.

But the combat... Ugh... I just remember playing this and all I did was cast the shield on me and roll around until I could get a hit, and if I ever got hit, I would roll around until I could cast the shield again. The whole potions only before combat thing is something I didn't like, because it took alot of choice away from the player. Sure, at first I will fight however I like, trying to use all my spells and traps and weapons, but once my regen is gone, I am forced to go into rolling and shielding up. It really took away from the experience when the combat was so much weaker compared to the more visceral Dark Souls or the crazy fast paced combat of Dragon's Dogma. Witcher 2 sits dead last in combat mechanics of ARPG games (though I am still deciding how bad DA:I's combat is).

And finally, the fetch quests. Literally giving you a list of things to go find to make a potion or do a ritual. What in the actual fuck? That is where I had to put the game down on my second playthrough. Fuck your shopping lists Witcher.

 

[Pr0]

I think the Witcher is terribly overrated. Though in all fairness its come quite a long ways since the original one and CD Projekt RED does appear to really care about improving their franchise with each successive game.

The main issue I originally had with it in the original Witcher was the game play was a bit generic and for a PC game the controls seemed mostly designed for console play. Also the whole "Gotta catch em all" boobie cards was also a little sophomoric.

Witcher 2, I actually considered a stronger title, and you might expect me to decry its sexual content but I thought it was tastefully done and Triss and Geralt were portrayed well as two consenting adults engaging in how real sex and sexual relationships tend to play out...it was mature in a way that I actually respected as compared to the original games allusions to sexual activity with simple "nudity cards" for having "achieved the goal" of gotten the female in question into "bed" as it were. So overall, The Witcher 2 and its approach to sexuality was far more acceptable to me than the original games because it didn't try to duck away from it and make a joke of it. It was realistic and a sub-narrative to the character narratives and it worked.

I am looking forward to The Witcher 3 just because every time the industry has moved forward, CD Projekt RED always seems to move forward just that little bit more...and I think thats a good thing.

But as I stated, I also think its overrated, the lore is...obscure, based on a regional author's work in the Czech Republic and while thats fine, but it lacks the pedigree that other work in the same genre hails from and I'm a bit of a snob.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Nothing....

I enjoyed the second game quite a bit and the third game is my most anticipated title of next year. I like the complex story telling the series delivers.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

I've noticed there's a lot of...not hate, but dislike for The Witcher series on these forums beyond some of the time. It's been called immature, grimdark, sexist and just bad by a number of people on these forums, and I'm wondering why. Because I don't get it (apart from maybe the juvenile sex cards in the first game which were tacky)

I've recently started playing my fourth or fifth playthrough of The Witcher 2 game recently after completing Dragon Age Inquisition and it really is a breath of fresh air to me.

I love that the writing is mature and treats you as an adult - it throws you into confusing politics and you're left to work out different players motivations without them being explained to you by an NPC. I love how it deals with relationships and friendships - Bioware's romances are like machines you put in niceness to to get sex out of, but Geralt's and Triss' relationship is far more nuanced and full of secrets. I also maintain that Iorveth and Roche are just as well written as any Bioware companion.

I love that the world is interesting to explore and feels lived in. The towns are busy and full of clutter and dirt. NPCs dont have massive glowing quest markers on their heads. It's honestly just as well designed as Skyrim and feels like a real world in my opinion.

I love the choice and consequence system and how it's not tacked onto an "approval" system or a moral meter. Choices are choices, you have to take track of them by themselves and a choice has a direct consequence, long or short term. It's really good.

I understand that a lot of people have reservations with the series but coming from a Bioware game where everything is pointed out to you, playing The Witcher really is a breath of fresh air in the way it treats you as an adult and not a teenager who needs to be pointed and nudged in the right direction, with everything explained to them.

So, what do you like and dislike about the series?

I'm just not that interested in dark fantasy. If I was into dark fantasy, I'm sure I'd really dig The Witcher, but, to my mind, if I'm going to go fantasy, I want escapism of the nth degree. I want good guys and bad guys (not that I want flat characters, but contrary to what some would say, it is possible to have this distinction AND have nuanced characters in the same story); I want over-the-top magical powers; I want all manner of magical creatures and alternate species; I want a loose relationship with our real world.

Things like The Witcher or Game of Thrones are very human-centric and focus a lot on the type of murky morals, political intrigue, and downright despicable actions that take place the real-world that we live in. When I want that, I'll turn to historical fiction, historical non-fiction, or realistic spy thrillers.

There are exceptions. Dragon Age could be arguably be considered dark fantasy and I love the hell out of it. I've played origins all the way through 5 times. And I think what I like about Dragon Age's take on the genre is that I have control over my character's moral standing. I can be a paragon of virtue and still come out on top, triumphantly so. Compare that to, say, Game of Thrones, where it's almost always the most conniving despicable characters who come out on top. Yes, this is a more realistic approach, but see above. I don't go to fantasy for strong realism; to me, that defeats the point of fantasy. I'll go to other genres for gritty realism. Keep your grim and gritty out of my fantasy!

Now, I'm not trying to criticize the genre itself or those who dig it. I'm just trying to illustrate that my response to the flavor of dark fantasy that things like the The Witcher and Game of Thrones bring to the table, is a big, fat, "NOT FOR ME!"

And the big, fat, "NOT FOR ME!" is written in bright neon letters on a 35-foot billboard surrounded by flashing lights.

 

[Las7]

Personally, the Witcher 2 is one of the best games of the decade.
opinions you know, everyone has one.

 

[Morgoth780]

I love both of them. However, I prefer the first one. That could be due to how the second ending, and it left me with a sour taste in my mouth. Definitely really exciting for the third one.

I guess coming out in May gives me another 12 weeks to upgrade my monitor and buy a new graphics card(s).

 

[TotalerKrieger]

Perhaps Western audiences tend to dislike or do not identify with the Eastern European themes and mannerisms which crop up from time to time amidst more conventional fantasy tropes? I would argue that many Westerners are influenced by the negative stereotypes and pre-conceived notions surrounding Eastern Europeans and their cultures, which may be affecting how they perceive certain aspects about the game. Although, on second thought, that might be completely baseless as there is widespread acceptance all the cultural tropes found in Japanese games, I am really just spitballing...

The fact that the series is developed with the PC as the primary platform may have resulted in a significant loss of quality or intuitiveness on the subsequent ports to consoles? I've only played on PC, but I thought the Witcher 2 was fantastic in both story and game design. Nothing Bioware has produced in the last decade comes close to surpassing the narrative and gameplay found in the Witcher 2. The weak point of the Witcher series, the fairly stereotypical characterization, remains on par with the rather dull, rehashed personalities created by Bioware. Bethesda still takes the cake for world design. I expect the Witcher 3 will not surpass the rich yet expansive environment of Skyrim, but who knows. The NPCs at least do not have that wooden, uncanny valley feel so prevalent in the Elder Scrolls series.

Having said all that, the first Witcher was a bit of a mess, even after the Enhanced Edition was released. The gameplay was old-fashioned and repetitive and there were some rather immature/tired themes which tended to mar the story overall. Maybe the first title has put people off the whole series and/or coloured their perception of the sequel?

 

[Longing]

I would enjoy The Witcher a lot more if you weren't forced to play as Gerald. I get that it's a book series, but he just comes across as so extremely unlikeable to me. I've briefly played the second one a year or so ago and I could not for the life of me get into it. It's the same reason I can't get into GOT I suppose. Everything's got this toxic thin layer of misogyny over it, like shit fondant (is there another kind?) on top of an otherwise excellent cake. I don't want to have to scrape everything off of it to get to the good parts.

Combat seemed functional, I`ll admit I didn`t get very far in the game so maybe it gets worse later on; a lot of people seem to have a problem with it.

Anyway, I guess it all comes down to: it`s not for me. And that's fine.

 

[endtherapture]

Perhaps Western audiences tend to dislike or do not identify with the Eastern European themes and mannerisms which crop up from time to time amidst more conventional fantasy tropes? I would argue that many Westerners are influenced by the negative stereotypes and pre-conceived notions surrounding Eastern Europeans and their cultures, which may be affecting how they perceive certain aspects about the game. Although, on second thought, that might be completely baseless as there is widespread acceptance all the cultural tropes found in Japanese games, I am really just spitballing...

The fact that the series is developed with the PC as the primary platform may have resulted in a significant loss of quality or intuitiveness on the subsequent ports to consoles? I've only played on PC, but I thought the Witcher 2 was fantastic in both story and game design. Nothing Bioware has produced in the last decade comes close to surpassing the narrative and gameplay found in the Witcher 2. The weak point of the Witcher series, the fairly stereotypical characterization, remains on par with the rather dull, rehashed personalities created by Bioware. Bethesda still takes the cake for world design. I expect the Witcher 3 will not surpass the rich yet expansive environment of Skyrim, but who knows. The NPCs at least do not have that wooden, uncanny valley feel so prevalent in the Elder Scrolls series.

Having said all that, the first Witcher was a bit of a mess, even after the Enhanced Edition was released. The gameplay was old-fashioned and repetitive and there were some rather immature/tired themes which tended to mar the story overall. Maybe the first title has put people off the whole series and/or coloured their perception of the sequel?

Yeah I'm thinking it could be quite a cultural difference. I'm from Britain myself and I find the game refreshing - the characters speak in English accents rather than American ones, I think the writing is hilarious at times, and it all has a rather quaint feel. It definitely has a very European feel to it which is absolutely unique. It definitely stands out from a game like Dragon Age to me, but I can understand why the American mass market might find it weird or unusual, given they have far less of a cultural history than Europe, so LOTR might be considered classic fantasy, but all our European nations have far more folk lore and stuff to draw upon. So the weird monsters like strigas, drowners, draugs and stuff might seem weird to an audience used to stuff like dragons, phoenixes and orcs.

But yeah, I agree with you regarding the companion design. Each Bioware character is well written, but essentially they are all tropes and stereotypes in every game, despite being well written. I do think characters like Roche and Iorveth are similar, but they feel a lot fresher, probably because they're not under your command and do their own things, they're more proactive than Bioware characters, and live with their backgrounds, rather than you having to go out and solve their daddy issues.

I would enjoy The Witcher a lot more if you weren't forced to play as Gerald. I get that it's a book series, but he just comes across as so extremely unlikeable to me. I've briefly played the second one a year or so ago and I could not for the life of me get into it. It's the same reason I can't get into GOT I suppose. Everything's got this toxic thin layer of misogyny over it, like shit fondant (is there another kind?) on top of an otherwise excellent cake. I don't want to have to scrape everything off of it to get to the good parts.

Combat seemed functional, I`ll admit I didn`t get very far in the game so maybe it gets worse later on; a lot of people seem to have a problem with it.

Anyway, I guess it all comes down to: it`s not for me. And that's fine.

It comes across as misogyny because the setting is misogynistic because it is based off 1300s Europe. Plus the plot is driven by the actions of a powerful group of female mages, so I wouldn't say the game is misogynistic or sexist, but the culture portrayed in the game is.