What Ethnic Group Will Replace Nazis?
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Why does this need to be asked when the best selling games are all "Kill Russian 8: Russiankilling Warfare" and "Kill Russian: Kill Russian Ops?"
I thought that we had all agreed that Russians were the new soulless and morally unambiguous cannon fodder?
Obviously some people just missed the meeting.
Note: "Anyone living in a favela" is also a perfectly good target. Game developers apparently just hate fucking favelas.
I thought that we had all agreed that Russians were the new soulless and morally unambiguous cannon fodder?
Obviously some people just missed the meeting.
Note: "Anyone living in a favela" is also a perfectly good target. Game developers apparently just hate fucking favelas.
Vikings (Merciless rapists and murderers)
Mongolians (Genghis Khan's horde)
Americans (the non-native ones)
Europeans (in general)
The Mongolians were still nicer folk than the Vikings. At least Khan gave you the chance to surrender, and its conquered nations couldn't wage war against each other. Only an idiot would choose to fight the Mongols in the first place.
Or how about Alexander "the great", he was much worse than the Golden Horde. At least the Mongols tolerated other religions, Alexander almost destroyed the world's oldest known monotheistic religion (Zoroastrianism) and burned priceless documents and libraries of their (and other people's) texts, while wiping out hundreds of thousands of various natives in their homelands. He almost destroyed all of Persia and Iran's culture. His soldiers also raped and killed many innocent lives. He screwed up the Middle East far more than Khan did. How has this monster been overlooked?
Mongolians (Genghis Khan's horde)
Americans (the non-native ones)
Europeans (in general)
The Mongolians were still nicer folk than the Vikings. At least Khan gave you the chance to surrender, and its conquered nations couldn't wage war against each other. Only an idiot would choose to fight the Mongols in the first place.
Or how about Alexander "the great", he was much worse than the Golden Horde. At least the Mongols tolerated other religions, Alexander almost destroyed the world's oldest known monotheistic religion (Zoroastrianism) and burned priceless documents and libraries of their (and other people's) texts, while wiping out hundreds of thousands of various natives in their homelands. He almost destroyed all of Persia and Iran's culture. His soldiers also raped and killed many innocent lives. He screwed up the Middle East far more than Khan did. How has this monster been overlooked?
Each one could be a boss, and the 'grunts' are the group members on their now-gone facebook page. Once you get to the head-honcho (honchess?), it is revealed that your brutally murdered your way, quite indiscriminately, through a horde of like-bots (bots being replaced with whatever the enemy 'type' is) that was largely people opposing the group, whom joined under false pretenses to sabotage them the way you did (so they are all just different versions of you all thinking everyone else is an enemy, but you are the one that 'succeeded', so to speak).[templar1138a said:
End of game plot twists! I love it!
Americans.
Nazis will be replaced by americans.
The USA is the #1 warmonger in the world, it tortures prisoners, now embraces the Obama doctrine of "Death is Proof of Guilt" and earlier the Bush doctrine (ask Sarah Palin about it), is unaccountable to it's civilian population, has militarized police and cracks down on it's own population, killed over a million people in the last decade and is basically ruled by coorporations.
They are perfect as bad guys since they also have high-tech military stuff.
This is the classic Rebels vs. Empire scenario.
The only downside is that many of the nearly 300 million americans won't buy any games where americans are neither good guys nor heroes or protagonists. They don't have any money, but they have credit, which is nearly the same thing.
On the other hand: 3 billion people would love a game where you could shoot the USA down to size.
Nazis will be replaced by americans.
The USA is the #1 warmonger in the world, it tortures prisoners, now embraces the Obama doctrine of "Death is Proof of Guilt" and earlier the Bush doctrine (ask Sarah Palin about it), is unaccountable to it's civilian population, has militarized police and cracks down on it's own population, killed over a million people in the last decade and is basically ruled by coorporations.
They are perfect as bad guys since they also have high-tech military stuff.
This is the classic Rebels vs. Empire scenario.
The only downside is that many of the nearly 300 million americans won't buy any games where americans are neither good guys nor heroes or protagonists. They don't have any money, but they have credit, which is nearly the same thing.
On the other hand: 3 billion people would love a game where you could shoot the USA down to size.
You can get revenge if you feel it's necessary, but never delude yourself into thinking that it's right. If you're unable to get revenge against a specific person, is it okay for that person to do whatever they want to you? Sadly life is never that simple.Rogue 09 said:
Also, a quote from the movie Reservoir Dogs: "If you f@#$ing beat this prick long enough, he'll tell you he started the goddamn Chicago fire, now that don't necessarily make it f@#$ing so!"
Probably the only group to even come close to nazis in public opinion is muslim extremists, if the media is to be believed they are all child rapists who call everyone who isnt muslim a infidel and believe that their holy book gives them leave to murder us and plan to be martyred so they can acquire a fictitious amount of virgins. Problem is that they have been overplayed of late in all types of media and in reality we have been doing nothing but wasting money and calling it a war when we would have been better off just nuking afganistan right in the beginning and patting our selves on the back for a job well done.
North Koreans or Something Taliban/muslim extremists
Shrug something everyone can agree is wrong and pretty much do all their own bad PR. North Korea could be a good one from Homefront, lacklustre game interesting story and the new Red Dawn movie which i think is north korea, plus it's not like they would complain seeing as the country is a media blackout mostly.
Shrug something everyone can agree is wrong and pretty much do all their own bad PR. North Korea could be a good one from Homefront, lacklustre game interesting story and the new Red Dawn movie which i think is north korea, plus it's not like they would complain seeing as the country is a media blackout mostly.
I'd argue that broad spectrum "middle east" types already have, for contemporary bullet fodder, but the collective distaste at the notion hasn't caught up with it yet.
Also, Zombies.
That's more of a 'situation on the ground' assessment than a prediction though.
Also, Zombies.
That's more of a 'situation on the ground' assessment than a prediction though.
How about "Non-US" Americans.jthm said:
Let me illustrate from how the fascist view the world. The name of Hitler's private train in WWII was "Amerika" yet he ranted endlessly how the "United States" was an evil organisation. As far as fascist and similar ideologies view there is a significant disconnect between the "United States" with the bill of rights, constitutional democracy, unbiased-justice, civilisation; and the "America" of white racial dominance and genocide. Hitler admired how white European people had dominated the American continent but was absolutely insanely livid that the United States existed.
And I think that element is strong in America that despises the government for stopping them denigrating and enslaving black people, for forcing them to treat women with respect and simply to not murder homosexuals.
Given a significant cataclysm like a nuclear war or a large meteorite impact would disturb things enough to let this element take control. Imagine a perversion of the Wild West, "might is right" and personal prejudices rule over public justice. There is a precedent in history of the US Civil War where half the country tried to cede from The Union and discard the Bill of Rights and keep running a slave-economy.
It seems this is being explored in the game Bioshock Infinite as the flying city of Columbia has separated from the United States and embracing absolutist quasi-fascist ideology.
I believe that xenophobia in the game industry has less reality than it does in your average society anywhere, however, in games we do want:
1. An easy to understand ?baddie? with clear motives
2. An easy to understand Protagonist who is very powerful
3. To sell our game mainly in the US and Europe, and maybe Japan/South Korea
4. An easy to write storyline that doesn?t require actual research and can be written by
We also want to follow well-known memes, and make out game look contemporary, or if it is a futuristic setting we want that setting to look plausible as measured by current events.
This is how we end up doing what we do ? Killing evil Russians, Ukrainians, Mexicans, Arabs, or more recently Iranians.
What can we do about this situation? As a player I?d say: vote with our wallets. As designers, we simply need to get off our lazy bums and educate our teams and ourselves about various cultures, nations and their histories, and how they can be used constructively to tell deeper stories and more involved plots.
1. An easy to understand ?baddie? with clear motives
2. An easy to understand Protagonist who is very powerful
3. To sell our game mainly in the US and Europe, and maybe Japan/South Korea
4. An easy to write storyline that doesn?t require actual research and can be written by
We also want to follow well-known memes, and make out game look contemporary, or if it is a futuristic setting we want that setting to look plausible as measured by current events.
This is how we end up doing what we do ? Killing evil Russians, Ukrainians, Mexicans, Arabs, or more recently Iranians.
What can we do about this situation? As a player I?d say: vote with our wallets. As designers, we simply need to get off our lazy bums and educate our teams and ourselves about various cultures, nations and their histories, and how they can be used constructively to tell deeper stories and more involved plots.
Personally, I don't think that ANY ethnic group will ever replace the Nazis in terms of sheer "kill as many times as you like without even a blip on your karma meter", as no other ethnic group has ever had the right mixture of a completely nutso leadership and cultural identity with a military powerful enough to spark a global conflict. The really nutty countries (Iran, North Korea, etc.) are mostly isolated nations who are more content to make empty threats to the world than actually carry them out, and even if they DID go to war, they'd only get as far as a few neighboring nations before being carpet-bombed to the stone-age by the US (i.e., Saddam's Iraq trying to invade Kuwait).
Historical empires are far trickier, as they actually balanced out the same genocidal practices of Germany with, y'know, actual empire building. The Roman Empire is probably just as bad as the Nazis (hell, fascists got most of their doctrines from the Romans, especially Mussolini), but the fact they conquered their known world AND built modern European civilization as we know it means we'll still remember them for their badass praetorians. Hell, even the enslaving of races for manual labor was a step up from massacring them for a scientifically implausible definition of being "genetically superior", and even the gladiatorial death-matches weren't always death-matches in reality (and even if they were, it was still more civilized than straight-up execution).
The Mongols are another example of being like the Nazis, except they succeeded where the Nazis failed. This is especially since they actually have an underdog, "Noble Barbarian" air about their history: going from a bunch of nomads roaming the northern border of China, to taking OVER China and Asia, and large parts of Europe and the Middle East. The sacking and razing of their enemies was brutal, but they were actually pretty decent to live under if one accepted their rule.
And aside from being more wildly successful than the Nazis in the "take over the world" business, the atrocities of the ancient empires are more tolerated today since ALL ancient empires did the atrocities - it was just what was commonly accepted then. By the time the Nazis went about their genocidal rampage, the civilized world had largely gotten over the barbaric practices of ancient times (and I mean ALL the civilized world, not just the west), which made the Nazis devolution to those levels genuinely horrifying in the modern, industrialized era.
The closest equivalent to the Nazis in World War Two I can think of is Serbia in the Yugoslav wars, and it's still a mostly regional conflict without world-threatening proportions (although it's still sorely disappointing that there aren't as many games out there about hunting down Serbian war criminals as there are about shooting up Nazis, Russians, and nondescript "organizations" that give plausible deniability, what with being the era of political correctness and all).
Historical empires are far trickier, as they actually balanced out the same genocidal practices of Germany with, y'know, actual empire building. The Roman Empire is probably just as bad as the Nazis (hell, fascists got most of their doctrines from the Romans, especially Mussolini), but the fact they conquered their known world AND built modern European civilization as we know it means we'll still remember them for their badass praetorians. Hell, even the enslaving of races for manual labor was a step up from massacring them for a scientifically implausible definition of being "genetically superior", and even the gladiatorial death-matches weren't always death-matches in reality (and even if they were, it was still more civilized than straight-up execution).
The Mongols are another example of being like the Nazis, except they succeeded where the Nazis failed. This is especially since they actually have an underdog, "Noble Barbarian" air about their history: going from a bunch of nomads roaming the northern border of China, to taking OVER China and Asia, and large parts of Europe and the Middle East. The sacking and razing of their enemies was brutal, but they were actually pretty decent to live under if one accepted their rule.
And aside from being more wildly successful than the Nazis in the "take over the world" business, the atrocities of the ancient empires are more tolerated today since ALL ancient empires did the atrocities - it was just what was commonly accepted then. By the time the Nazis went about their genocidal rampage, the civilized world had largely gotten over the barbaric practices of ancient times (and I mean ALL the civilized world, not just the west), which made the Nazis devolution to those levels genuinely horrifying in the modern, industrialized era.
The closest equivalent to the Nazis in World War Two I can think of is Serbia in the Yugoslav wars, and it's still a mostly regional conflict without world-threatening proportions (although it's still sorely disappointing that there aren't as many games out there about hunting down Serbian war criminals as there are about shooting up Nazis, Russians, and nondescript "organizations" that give plausible deniability, what with being the era of political correctness and all).
I would love to genocide Americans in a game. They're pretty much multicultural as well so its would be perfect especially if you're allowed to play as a Russian.karcentric said:
Actually lots of RTS games allow this, they even allow you to play as the Nazis like Codename: Panzer this kind of games give you that "immersion" and you can also feel how its to be on the other side. But no shooter does this unless its online multiplayer.