I like it the way it is, the only thing I'd like changing is the combat system, which they're working on currently. Everything else I'm okay with, even the grind. I'm yet to reach end-game so I can't really comment there. I'm not so bothered about it at the moment I'm enjoying the game just levelling.One Hit Noob said:
What have happend to the MMORPGS?
- Thread starter Muggizz
- Start date
Practically all MMOs are built from a similar tool kit and thats why they are boringly similar.
The plot is always moot, because you are doing these world saving things along side a bajillion other people, which kills the individual feel. You never have a chance to change anything or do anything unique.
To be honest, the plot thing is the killer to me. Not all games can be wonderfully innovative with mechanics, but a good plot makes up for it. But MMOs don't have plots, they have fetch quests and kill quests and not much else, and no matter how you mix that up you never feel like you achieve anything in a plot sense.
So basically you are left with the mechanics of it, and they almost all follow the 'trees of abilities and unlocks' approach, which makes things very dull to me. You just press the keys and stuff happens. You find equipment, and you use it *shrug*. And they are all exactly like that.
The only genuinely different MMO is Eve Online (which I've played on and off for years) and while it is definitely different, it'll always be a very niche game that is grindingly hard to get into, and takes a well groomed sense of masochism to stay with.
What would get me interested in a new MMO would be something non-fantasy (which has been done to death and I never liked that much anyway) that offers me the chance to play solo if I want and the plot makes me wanna stay with it. I don't know what that means in practice, but I want a quality single player experience. Not just 'stuff to do while I level up' but something that actually makes me feel a part of something.
I'm thinking something like mass effect, and the MMO aspect is a squad based thing. A big universe and I can be a solo agent doing something, or part of a squad or part of an army. Dynamic scaling to the number of players you have wanting to play at any one time. I'd organize it so that you have big areas, that mostly just have NPC enemies (for both sides) and then people of either side can leave or not and it scales the number and relative strength of the NPCs balances out. Basically so that you have a reasonably fair fight all the time, and you can PvP or not, but even when you do, you always have back up. That'd mean that a newbie team could still fight against super veterans, and the NPCs help make up the difference. The vets get low level grunt back up, the newbies get smart, team focused dangerous NPCs. It'd still be an up hill fight, but I think you get what I'm saying. Maybe add a tactical role too, so someone can co-ordinate the NPCs.
That'd work for me. Maybe some kind of planetary war like in Planetside. A solo part that is say 15-20 hours long, at the end of which point you pick sides in the war, and then start fighting. The war can't truly be won, but there's a genuine back and forth, and even if one side is dominating, the game makes their stuff harder and harder until the others push them back.
Thats basically what I'd like to see. More sci-fi, more good solo parts, less 'level and class' kinda crap (seriously I hate it) in favor of a system more focused on equipment and your personal skill with it than stats vs stats stuff. Make it first person and shooty too. I hate how practically all the MMO have zero personal skill. Balance that out by never putting too many players vs each other so its not too death matchy in pvp.
The plot is always moot, because you are doing these world saving things along side a bajillion other people, which kills the individual feel. You never have a chance to change anything or do anything unique.
To be honest, the plot thing is the killer to me. Not all games can be wonderfully innovative with mechanics, but a good plot makes up for it. But MMOs don't have plots, they have fetch quests and kill quests and not much else, and no matter how you mix that up you never feel like you achieve anything in a plot sense.
So basically you are left with the mechanics of it, and they almost all follow the 'trees of abilities and unlocks' approach, which makes things very dull to me. You just press the keys and stuff happens. You find equipment, and you use it *shrug*. And they are all exactly like that.
The only genuinely different MMO is Eve Online (which I've played on and off for years) and while it is definitely different, it'll always be a very niche game that is grindingly hard to get into, and takes a well groomed sense of masochism to stay with.
What would get me interested in a new MMO would be something non-fantasy (which has been done to death and I never liked that much anyway) that offers me the chance to play solo if I want and the plot makes me wanna stay with it. I don't know what that means in practice, but I want a quality single player experience. Not just 'stuff to do while I level up' but something that actually makes me feel a part of something.
I'm thinking something like mass effect, and the MMO aspect is a squad based thing. A big universe and I can be a solo agent doing something, or part of a squad or part of an army. Dynamic scaling to the number of players you have wanting to play at any one time. I'd organize it so that you have big areas, that mostly just have NPC enemies (for both sides) and then people of either side can leave or not and it scales the number and relative strength of the NPCs balances out. Basically so that you have a reasonably fair fight all the time, and you can PvP or not, but even when you do, you always have back up. That'd mean that a newbie team could still fight against super veterans, and the NPCs help make up the difference. The vets get low level grunt back up, the newbies get smart, team focused dangerous NPCs. It'd still be an up hill fight, but I think you get what I'm saying. Maybe add a tactical role too, so someone can co-ordinate the NPCs.
That'd work for me. Maybe some kind of planetary war like in Planetside. A solo part that is say 15-20 hours long, at the end of which point you pick sides in the war, and then start fighting. The war can't truly be won, but there's a genuine back and forth, and even if one side is dominating, the game makes their stuff harder and harder until the others push them back.
Thats basically what I'd like to see. More sci-fi, more good solo parts, less 'level and class' kinda crap (seriously I hate it) in favor of a system more focused on equipment and your personal skill with it than stats vs stats stuff. Make it first person and shooty too. I hate how practically all the MMO have zero personal skill. Balance that out by never putting too many players vs each other so its not too death matchy in pvp.
Its risky enough to interpret an existing style. Ask mythic how their wowhammer experience is going. As for something new, massively single player didn't work out for spore very well. I only like single player games anymore, im far to old to deal with 14 year olds on the internet.Muggizz said:
Why don't you hop on the Kingdom of loathing and give that a try?
Sober Thal said:
I agree with you that CCP know their business. Much as I'm a casual eve player these days (not got the time) they have built a genuinely unique and engaging game, and even though its not for everyone, they definitely have an adult experience.
I can't wait to see what they do with World of Darkness. I think they will have given it a similar treatment. That is, I have no idea what they'll have done, but I think it will be different from everything else, dark, atmospheric, player driven and all kinds of awesome. I really can't wait.
Yeah but most MMOs drastically fail as it is...thiosk said:
I never liked BF of any description to be honest.DanDeFool said:
But yeah, thats a good place to start thinking. Expand it into a full RPG world, with actual RPing and you're on to a winner in my books. Like I said about the mixing of Pvp and Pve so that everyone can join in and enjoy all sides of it. That'd get me really into it.
Yeah, WoDO should be pretty amazing however they deal with it. I'm definitely expecting it to be FAR beyond the standard WOW clone, and definitely letting you create your own story, same as we all do in pen and paper WoD.Sober Thal said:
I'm not sure about Dust as of yet, but we'll see. I trust them to make it work, but I'm a little uncertain, just because I don't know how it fits in just yet.
Like bloodline champions but in a PvE enviorment? Sounds good acually. Hope they manage to pull it off.Jasper Jeffs said:
EDIT: Have been looking into it and yes it actually looks promising. Offers something else than the tank and spank method on bosses, as well as something else than hotkey combat.
i think that the only reason that WoW is the dominate one is because of the massive ammount of money it takes to make them and look at Squareenix the company is now in suffering huge loses because of how much Final Fantasy XIV lost them
People realized they could get the same skinner box operant conditioning "fun" from free things like farmville or that they'd wasted a lot of time running in place on WOW. Thank goodness that collapsed. The casual market will collapse soon as well.
this very website can help you answer your question:
Extra Credits:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/1906-The-Future-of-MMOs
ZP:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2634-World-of-Warcraft-Cataclysm
Extra Credits:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/1906-The-Future-of-MMOs
ZP:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/2634-World-of-Warcraft-Cataclysm
I played it at PAX East. Trust me, it has depth.Muggizz said:
Not only that, but in case you forgot, the game has a huge risk- an actual story. A separate one for every class.
JoyJdb said:
I saw the video. I hope it captures the feel of the first one, which it looks and sounds like it does.
No, it's an MMORPG with story.bombadilillo said:
You can team up with people for story-based instances. There's dialogue and everything. I got to play one of said instances, and see the solo stuff.
It is your quintessential MMORPG as-made-by-Bioware. So it has branching dialogue trees and stories, along with everything you'd expect from an MMO.