What I like about Dragon's Crown Artwork

[MrMisfit]

Everyone keeps talking about the design of the human characters of DC. I have no real problem with them but, what I want to talk about the monster designs. Some of the monster designs are excellent. My personal favorite is the Chimera boss. Great design and color scheme.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

I think the "off putting" nature of the exaggeration was sort of the point. They clearly put a lot of time and effort into their designs, so it seems silly to ignore the importance of your own initial reactions; maybe you're meant to be "turned off" by a woman with 18-pack abs and an ass like two watermelons?

I agree wholeheartedly with the notion that this game is being unfairly swept up alongside most of the overtly exploitative nonsense flowing from this industry. DC is so clearly over-the-top and ridiculous, skewering and satirizing traditional fantasy/game art, but we're not allowed to have that kind of discussion given our context of Dead or Alive: Beach Volleyball and its ilk.

One of the points Jimquisition made about the game industry is that you can't really play the irony card when everyone else is un-ironically doing almost the same thing. I suppose that's a valid point, but I'm also not sure that's Vinallaware's problem. It's certainly not their responsibility to fix it. The thing we're forgetting about most of the gender issues in gaming is that this is an entirely optional luxury hobby. If exploitation and sexism exists, there's a decent chance the market is driving it. If women (and men) want more honest and interesting depictions of women (and men), they are welcome to pony up their personal fortunes and deliver those games.

Is the immaturity of our hobby an indictment? Absolutely. But I'm not sure you change things by attacking what appears to be a rare action rpg side-scrolling brawler with truly unique art and design. How many Dragon's Crowns are there? Why would you choose this as your "breaking point" on this issue and not one of umpteen other games that are about as scandalous but nowhere near as interesting?

 

[Windcaler]

I never studied the art design itself past the inspiration the artist drew from. I just disliked the over exagerated art style from the get go. You dont have to be an expert in art to know what you like after all.

Most of the dragons crown art is over exagerated to the point where I think its silly but the amazon in particular is actually kind of disgusting IMO because of the lumpy look she has on that rock. Its like Im looking at a drawing of Krang (a disembodied brain from TMNT during the 80s and 90s).

Although as over exagerated as the characters are I am curious why the elf looks so normal. Shes petite and yet sexy at the same time without looking weak. I wish I knew why the artist included that more normal body type for the elf with the over exaggerated human characters.

 

[Caiphus]

I'm not put off by the artwork in Dragon's Crown at all. I would be slightly hesitant towards if either:

- The men in the game were absolutely normal. Mostly-naked, bodybuilding midgets aren't.

- The women didn't kick ass, and you had to rescue them while they wailed.


Since neither of those are true, I don't mind. A lot of the hate surrounding the artwork seems sliiightly puritanical. But whatever. I still probably won't buy the game since it doesn't look like my cup of tea. But that's my certified internet opinion.

Edit: Oh yeah, the amazon does look ugly. That's about it though. The rest are fine.

- Caiphus.

Further edit because hurfblurf:

However if many people are turned off by the general presentation, then perhaps you may want to investigate why.

Who would want to investigate why? Do you mean the developers?

I mean, investigation is fine. But we give developers enough shit in the gaming community when they try to market stuff to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible. (See: Dark Souls 2 AAA controversy etc etc etc). So I don't reeeeeally mind if they decide to stick to their guns and lose a few sales.

Unless the game is clearly sexist. And I don't think this one is. But yeeah.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

Most of the dragons crown art is over exagerated to the point where I think its silly but the amazon in particular is actually kind of disgusting IMO because of the lumpy look she has on that rock. Its like Im looking at a drawing of Krang (a disembodied brain from TMNT during the 80s and 90s).

Although as over exagerated as the characters are I am curious why the elf looks so normal. Shes petite and yet sexy at the same time without looking weak. I wish I knew why the artist included that more normal body type for the elf with the over exaggerated human characters.

The wizard is the same. I think they were clearly attempting to offer some counterpoint choices to people who didn't want to choose the "joke" characters.

And seriously, aren't they obviously jokes? I mean imagine what goes through the head of someone drawing that amazon. You think he's sporting a semi as he adds her tenth set of ab muscles? Or yet another set of muscle lines to thighs the size of tree trunks? He's going for a combination of disturbingly muscular and bizarrely sexual, and I can't help but imagine that the intent is to generate feelings of discomfort and/or hilarity. Same goes for the sorceress...

Artist 1: "I'm thinking of making the sorceress overtly sexy."

Artist 2: "Low cut shirt, large breasts, suggestive poses?"

Artist 1: "Yeah, the usual. I understand the archetype, but I wish we could do something different with it."

Artist 2: "Like boobs so big they defy physics and possibly logic. 'You want boobs? Fine, have BOOBS!'"

Artist 1: "Haha yeah, make them so big they like flap around whenever she moves or casts spells.."

Artist 2: "..."

Artist 1: "This is gonna be hilarious."

Artist 2: "It'll be even funnier when people don't get the joke."

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I am so sick of hearing about dragons crown's art style. You like it or you don't. It is an art style. I am sick of all this PC crap. I say make whatever creative decisions you want, to hell with what people think about it.
This is coming from someone who can't stand chainmail bikinis and half naked ladies in fantasy art, but this is all just so...silly. Get over it. (This isn't specifically aimed at OP, but just how often this topic keeps coming up.)

 

[Abomination]

I mean, to be fair, the only issue I have with Dragons' Crown art is the questionable anatomy.

Other then that? Man that art is to die for, and everything in game is beautiful and fluid.

I really like the artstyle, it's unique and reminds me of the old Terry Pratchett's Discworld novel covers.

Yeah the proportions are way off and some of the anatomy doesn't make sense but it hasn't been worth even a fraction of the hubbabaloo that has been raised over it. Don't like the art style? Don't buy it.

I mean...art style does play a heavy role in whether someone is going to buy something or not. Like someone said above first impressions are everything. The only thing we really have to go by on a game is the art and the gameplay. If all the display art for Dragon's crown looks like something straight out of an anime wet dream fantasy then don't be surprised when a good chunk of people don't buy the game.

Now am I going to say not to buy the game because of the titty monster that is the sorceress? No. That's stupid and makes me sound like I have a stick up my ass.
However if many people are turned off by the general presentation, then perhaps you may want to investigate why.

Certainly but the game is also too far gone to really do anything about it and I'm definately going to bang the artistic integrity drum for this issue.

We know why people are turned off by it, you already said so: the stick up their ass. They want to make a non-issue into an issue to appear more "progressie" than others. The men look just as silly as the women - look at the fighter. Pretty, tiny head, massive body, impossible armour. The dwarf has muscles on his muscles.

 

[RaikuFA]

Honestly (and I say this as someone who has the game preordered)trying to defend the art in Dragon's Crown is pointless. Taste in visuals is going to be totally subjective. For example, there have been a few indie darlings that I though looked like complete ass (Journy, Limbo, ect.) it all comes down to taste. If you like Dragon's Crown the best thing you can do is buy it and hope enough people do the same to keep Vanilaware in business.

EDIT: this also sums up my feelings very well:

Same here. It's also why I want Senran Kagura to go outside of Japan. But it's Kotaku's fault that won't happen.

 

[I.Muir]

I like the exaggerated everything
The colorful pallet that was used
It doesn't strike me the wrong way at all

 

[Guilherme Zoldan]

I enjoy a game that caters to my fetish for women with physically impossible breasts and asses.
But I don't think they intended that. XD

 

[kingthrall]

I agree in general. It's more about the gaming industry and its culture being so far beyond strike three that we don't get the benefit of the doubt. Because frankly, we don't deserve it.

I'd love to defend Dragon's Crown's aesthetic because I think it's worth defending on its own, but you can't look at an article about Dragon's Crown by a woman without the comments being drooling cretins talking about how jelly the stupid ***** is and that she's probably fat and her vagina smells.

So yeah, for what it's worth, I like the game's aesthetic. I think most of the characters are extreme on purpose--not just the women--and it dials an old nostalgic fantasy style up to eleven.

But from a cultural standpoint, it isn't worth defending. We can have nice things when enough of us grow the fuck up.

I find it funny that this game has gotten so much attention from this perspective when animae in general has been doing the same style of crap for years. Not that I do not have an issue with it cause I enjoy looking at a nice pair in game-play trailers. However ive yet to see a game to appeal me to buy the actual product which is the whole goal. games like this remind me of the king of dragons on snes which you can freely download and play.

 

[FrankatronX]

Everyone keeps talking about the design of the human characters of DC. I have no real problem with them but, what I want to talk about the monster designs. Some of the monster designs are excellent. My personal favorite is the Chimera boss. Great design and color scheme.

Not to mention it is HUGE. These bosses all look like they struggle to fit on the screen. I can't wait to go toe to toe with those beasties. Especially the Kraken, which I have a specific fear of.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Odin Sphere is a good example of over the top proportions but it doesn't go overboard with it.

Still going to get Dragons Crown cuz it looks fun though.

Spoiler: what about Odett?

Mermaid first.
What do all mermaids do? They lure sailors to their deaths on the rocks. Mermaids are supposed to be titillating, they just don't work if they are not overly sensual. It's the entire point of mermaids. They are fem fatale's and as such cunning and dangerous. Not to be trifled with in the least but also compassionate and friendly to the pure of heart. Though naked it does make sense to portray a mermaid without clothing since they live in the sea where clothing would be a burden. On the point of her famous butt then I can only assume the pose is deliberate to be alluring to whomever the mermaid is currently attempting to seduce.

I think you are thinking of Sirens there mermaids have been presented in many different ways sometimes like Sirens (like you have described) other times as helpful sometimes as beautiful and other times as er not so. Sirens have also been presented in different ways ofc but there core concepts are closer to what you have described than mermaids in general.

The issue that a lot of people are having is that if "Art is what you make of it" then why is there this huge crowd of people going around calling the art "sexist" and "misogynist" and "demeaning" when in order to do that they have to be knowing what everyone ELSE is thinking about when they look at it.

I and many others don't like the insinuation that an audience can dictate the thoughts of the people viewing a piece of art. It smacks of "all people listening to this music are faggots." or "this film will make you gay".

The fact of the matter is that the art is NOT "misogynist" but there are people out there who feel that way when they look at it, feel guilty, and then claim that it's the art causing problems rather than their weird minds.

Very true its unfortunate but its mostly a mob mentality happens all the time you must think this and that and never this always seemed a bit stupid to me but I will admit it is hard to go against the flow sometimes in this instance though I remember seeing the art for the game ages ago before all this hubbub kicked off and thought it looked amazing it was a breath of fresh air compared to so many anime style or realism type games (not that I dislike those either) or even cell shaded type game Vanillaware have their own distinct style and I hope they keep it. I really dont think the discussion is so much about the artwork as bewbs though and many will try and make them selves sound more valid by saying yea er dont like the dwarf either.

It good that the art style of a game can draw so much discussion though that in itself shows they have done a good job in my book its a shame Okami couldnt draw as much discussion but then again there wasnt enough boobs in that game I suppose, people can like and hate what they want ofc I am just glad we are getting more choice and variety I hope other styles of artwork continue to enter gaming on budgets enough to do them justice.

Shame I have to wait until October for the game but at least its coming out , maybe I will just import it I need an old school arcade type dungeon fighting game with modern day visuals.

 

[Dragonbums]

I mean, to be fair, the only issue I have with Dragons' Crown art is the questionable anatomy.

Other then that? Man that art is to die for, and everything in game is beautiful and fluid.

I really like the artstyle, it's unique and reminds me of the old Terry Pratchett's Discworld novel covers.

Yeah the proportions are way off and some of the anatomy doesn't make sense but it hasn't been worth even a fraction of the hubbabaloo that has been raised over it. Don't like the art style? Don't buy it.

I mean...art style does play a heavy role in whether someone is going to buy something or not. Like someone said above first impressions are everything. The only thing we really have to go by on a game is the art and the gameplay. If all the display art for Dragon's crown looks like something straight out of an anime wet dream fantasy then don't be surprised when a good chunk of people don't buy the game.

Now am I going to say not to buy the game because of the titty monster that is the sorceress? No. That's stupid and makes me sound like I have a stick up my ass.
However if many people are turned off by the general presentation, then perhaps you may want to investigate why.

Certainly but the game is also too far gone to really do anything about it and I'm definately going to bang the artistic integrity drum for this issue.

We know why people are turned off by it, you already said so: the stick up their ass. They want to make a non-issue into an issue to appear more "progressie" than others. The men look just as silly as the women - look at the fighter. Pretty, tiny head, massive body, impossible armour. The dwarf has muscles on his muscles.

I feel that this is a grand case of wrong place wrong time.
Not in terms of design, but WHEN they released those designs.
Can't really remember....oh that's right- Kotaku decided to act like complete ass clowns again and instead of taking a mature response to the design of sorceress decided that they were going to get the whole gaming community riled up and have an online slap fight between two authors under the same website banner who had opinions on the different side of the spectrum.

Jim made an episode relating to that, and it's further proof why Kotaku should just be banished from the internet.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Truth be told it doesn't look very different from what every other game is doing in portraying female characters. I don't get it. Dead or Alive, Tomb Raider, Haunting Ground, Resident Evils 4 & 5 had jiggle physics. Okami, of all games, has jiggle physics. Why are people so concerned with Dragon Crown? Is there a threshold for jiggling and cup size? Let's drop the hipocrisy people, this is nothing new.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Spoiler: what about Odett?

Yeah, but she was a Boss. Boss characters can make extremities work to their advantage. Had she been a playable character, her design would've probably gotten on my nerves right quick.

Plus, it's kinda creepy with her exposed skeletal back, creating a nice contrast.

But this kind of brings up an interesting point: Had the playable characters in Dragon's Crown been Bosses instead, their designs would've fit way better.

 

[EternallyBored]

Truth be told it doesn't look very different from what every other game is doing in portraying female characters. I don't get it. Dead or Alive, Tomb Raider, Haunting Ground, Resident Evils 4 & 5 had jiggle physics. Okami, of all games, has jiggle physics. Why are people so concerned with Dragon Crown? Is there a threshold for jiggling and cup size? Let's drop the hipocrisy people, this is nothing new.

I think that may be exactly some people's problem, it IS nothing new, to the point that people are starting to get sick of seeing it. There's nothing wrong with titillation by itself, and I doubt even many of the more outspoken against this want to eliminate sexuality entirely from the medium.

The problem is just how often it crops up and how relentlessly it seems to appear even when it doesn't assist in the overall theme or aesthetic of the game. The problem isn't that it's used, it's how overused its become. People start to see it like others see the samey-brown modern military shooters. The reaction then becomes something along the lines of: "oh look another woman with gravity-defying anatomy whose only recognizable character trait in the advertising seems to be showing off how much she wants to bang the viewer right now, let me just put that next to generic space marine #1000 on my list of interesting characters".

Dragon's Crown does seem to be going for a very exaggerated art style, and the other character designs do seem to indicate that the theme is at least consistant, so I do agree they are being somewhat unfairly lumped in with the like of Dead or Alive and other games that exist purely to induce sexual excitement. But I can also see where the detractors are coming from, when you can take the sorceress and insert her into dozens of other games and fictional settings and have her work as a completely serious character in those settings, it starts to take sexualization to a ridiculous degree and makes the whole industry start to look like sweaty teenagers who can't keep their attention on something for more than 5 seconds if it doesn't involve sex.

Forget violence, I think video games may be desensitizing me to sex.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Spoiler: what about Odett?

Yeah, but she was a Boss. Boss characters can make extremities work to their advantage. Had she been a playable character, her design would've probably gotten on my nerves right quick.

Plus, it's kinda creepy with her exposed skeletal back, creating a nice contrast.

But this kind of brings up an interesting point: Had the playable characters in Dragon's Crown been Bosses instead, their designs would've fit way better.

How so? surely that would make them less powerful with an even less developed personality while not impacting how they look at all.

Obviously the above is your opinion and we all have those but I am just wondering why to you having the characters as bosses would be preferable to player characters or rather why there designs would fit better when its the same game? Is it because it would subvert your expectations less?

Also er how would the sorceress for instance use her extremities as an advantage as a boss character?

As for Odette the spine visible makes sense but not sure about the huge breasts well actually it dosent bother me either way but in light of her design it makes less sense than the playable characters in Dragons Crown who have plenty of tropes to build off compared to the queen of the netherworld who has lets say less expectations on her appearance.

 

[Casual Shinji]

How so? surely that would make them less powerful with an even less developed personality while not impacting how they look at all.

Obviously the above is your opinion and we all have those but I am just wondering why to you having the characters as bosses would be preferable to player characters or rather why there designs would fit better when its the same game? Is it because it would subvert your expectations less?

Also er how would the sorceress for instance use her extremities as an advantage as a boss character?

As for Odette the spine visible makes sense but not sure about the huge breasts well actually it dosent bother me either way but in light of her design it makes less sense than the playable characters in Dragons Crown who have plenty of tropes to build off compared to the queen of the netherworld who has lets say less expectations on her appearance.

I'm speaking from a visual aesthetic - Bosses generally look weird and grotesque... like the characters in Dragon's Crown.

Take Mendez from Resident Evil 4 in his mutated form... As a Boss he looks the part, but if he happened to be a playable character I wouldn't be able to spend one minute looking at the guy. That's how I feel about the characters in Dragon's Crown.

 

[Maximum Bert]

*snip* Is it because it would subvert your expectations less?*snip*

I'm speaking from a visual aesthetic - Bosses generally look weird and grotesque... like the characters in Dragon's Crown.

Take Mendez from Resident Evil 4 in his mutated form... As a Boss he looks the part, but if he happened to be a playable character I wouldn't be able to spend one minute looking at the guy. That's how I feel about the characters in Dragon's Crown.

So its basically what I assumed you expect bosses to be weird and grotesque but not player characters although what people find weird and grotesque is ofc subjective I mean if I saw someone in real life looking like a character in Dragons Crown I would be er WTF how are they alive? but in the style and context of the game they dont seem very weird or grotesque to me.

From what I have seen though there are bosses weirder and more grotesque than the characters in Dragons Crown. Cant change how you feel though nor would I want to theres nothing wrong with people liking or hating on the art I just dont think people should be saying its wrong or right or we should never have this/ all thing should be like this (not that I am saying that is what you are saying)