What if the player character in a game was the villain?

[Littaly]

You mean like that one game with the twist? The one with the name that I can't say because that would be spoiling? ^^

Seriously though, is a "villain" defined by the way the story is presented or by the goals and ethics of the character in question? Is a "villain" a role in a story or is it a good/evil sort of thing? Because if it's the former then it can be really hard to make a game where you play as the villain since the villain is defined somebody the main character is up against. I mean, there are plenty of games where you play as evil people, but you could still argue that you play the hero in all of them. At least I think so...

 

[Thaliur]

I know its old and it doesn't exactly fit but no one has mentioned Tie Fighter yet. I mean come on your flying missions for the empire how can you be any more villan than that?

In TIE Fighter, you just play a loyal imperial soldier, while there is a rebellion going on. You, as the Pilot, are genuinely convinced that you are NOT the villain. Basically, you are a policeman keeping looters, thieves and terrorists in check. In this kind of situation the roles of villain and hero are only decided by who wins the war. Imagine the Star Wars movies from the Empire's point of view.
More and more people are rioting, goods are stolen, outposts are ransacked and destroyed, and the emperor and his loyal army are trying their best to keep order and protect the citizens.

 

[Lunar Templar]

oh!! though of one

Breath of Fire 4 has you (some of the time anyway) playing as the First Emperor Fu-Luo

though i didn't really getta 'him as a badguy' vibe till AFTER 12+ hours in

 

[Andrux51]

You mean like that one game with the twist? The one with the name that I can't say because that would be spoiling? ^^

Seriously though, is a "villain" defined by the way the story is presented or by the goals and ethics of the character in question? Is a "villain" a role in a story or is it a good/evil sort of thing? Because if it's the former then it can be really hard to make a game where you play as the villain since the villain is defined somebody the main character is up against. I mean, there are plenty of games where you play as evil people, but you could still argue that you play the hero in all of them. At least I think so...

I think this is taking it too far to an extreme, and I've been trying to avoid this point myself...obviously the player has to control some character in the game, or it's not much of a game. My point above that the player character in Dungeon Keeper isn't really a "villain", is because his point of view is perfectly heroic if the game insists that the "heroes" are evil for coming to ruin your dungeon. The human knights and such have become the villains of the story by knocking down your door in a quest to kill you, unprovoked.

It's interesting seeing how so many people keep coming back to the same examples without providing any insight as to why it works that way.

"What if the player character in the game WAS the villain?"

Why hello there Revan.

Spoiler

From Wookieepedia: "Recognized as a talented military tactician and strategist, and the Jedi Order's most powerful champion, Revan directed the Galactic Republic to victory after assuming command of its forces in 3,961 BBY, finally ending the conflict the following year with the defeat and execution of Mandalore the Ultimate, the destruction of Malachor V and the disarmament of the Mandalorian Neo-Crusaders?acts which earned him a reputation among the Mandalorians as Revan the Butcher."

Revan was acting on ideals that he thought to be right when the Jedi council wouldn't act, and championed his side (the "good side"/Republic) to victory in a war against an enemy that committed genocide of innocents. It's hard to consider that villainy. Afterwards, he embraces the dark side of the force and becomes Sith. He wasn't always a villain, and the player certainly doesn't play him as such through most of the game.

Here's some food for thought: in the God of War series, Kratos is pretty much a bad guy by the time GoW 3 rolls around. That's a good example of playing as the bad guy, however, it's still worth noting that he wasn't always bad. Maybe that's what makes a good villain, the fact that once upon a time his actions were more gray on the moral scale, but now he's passed the point of no return (TVtropes calls it Moral Event Horizon) where he has no redeemable qualities left. Is it possible to develop a character to that point before the start of a first game?

 

[Pipotchi]

What about that sequel to No one lives Forever? Contact Jack? You played a mid level member of an evil orginisation if memory serves.

J.A.C.K stood for Just Another Contract Killer as well I think?

Also following the 'evil' route in Planescape Torment, you were *very* evil, enslaving people, sacrificing your friends and so on

 

[Pipotchi]

Can you talk more about Syndicate? The concept is very interesting after a quick internet search about it, but the game looks like it would be really hard to sit through at its technological level.

There was a sequal called syndicate wars (even better of a game imo) and its a bit more new. There is a reboot FPS coming out soon that might be the thing for you. From what i heard they are not going to mess up that said feeling of evil and its being made by starbreeze, they make kickass games.

Also this! Syndicate Wars let you pick from two sides, Syndicate Agents and the Religous Cult of something or other and they were not only both mega evil but different kinds of evil.

Syndicate Agents in a faceless Megacorp kind of way and The Cult in a World Domination kind of thing.

I remember in Syndicate Wars all the in game billboards had moving ads on them for 2000AD comic strips, Judge Dredd, Rogue Trooper and so on

 

[Orks da best]

I belive he meant evil as in trying to take over the planet, universe etc. instead of just beinga jerk who saves the world despite being a jerk.

would be odd it be.

 

[ComradeJim270]

Kratos pretty much breaks the world in his temper tantrum (read: unjustified revenge quest)

and

Alex Mercer caused the deaths of thousands by releasing that virus, including him self (spoilers btw), and then goes about slaughtering MORE people on his 'quest for revenge' -.-

eeyup, they sure have a leg to stand on as anti heroes

They're still anti-heroes. They're trying to get revenge for perceived injustices. While I'm not very familiar with the God of War series, in Prototype... no, Alex Mercer is not the villain. Those Blackwatch guys? Those last couple of bosses? Those are the villains.

 

[Weealzabob]

If done right a villain based game could be amazing, but I can only imagine it would be like navigating a bloody minefield trying to get a villain that players simply don't hate having to control and guide through their sketchy dealings. Hell, I've played games where I am the clearly defined "good" guy, and I find myself questioning that character's actions, let alone someone who is blatantly a villain out for their own ends.

Man thinking about playing as a villain, and how you would need to balance the intrigue and loathing of the character, and rein in their actions so as you could stomach playing as that character for hours at a time has made me really realise how much of an amoral dick Nathan Drake is.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Kratos pretty much breaks the world in his temper tantrum (read: unjustified revenge quest)

and

Alex Mercer caused the deaths of thousands by releasing that virus, including him self (spoilers btw), and then goes about slaughtering MORE people on his 'quest for revenge' -.-

eeyup, they sure have a leg to stand on as anti heroes

They're still anti-heroes. They're trying to get revenge for perceived injustices. While I'm not very familiar with the God of War series, in Prototype... no, Alex Mercer is not the villain. Those Blackwatch guys? Those last couple of bosses? Those are the villains.

Krotos's injustice? NOT LISTENING, from 2 on he's acting like little more then a spoiled child that's had is favorite toy taken from him for being bad. the other gods told him to stop, he didn't, he was punished, so he goes about killing every god, thus breaking the world -.-

wheres the 'ends justifying the means' there?

and Alex might not be THE villain, but he's still A villain, the fact he cares about his sister, and 'can't remember his past' is kinda moot next to the scores of people he hurt and/or killed, and I'm not talking about the black watch guess, I'm talking about all the infected HE MADE by releasing that virus, he is solely responsible for all those peoples deaths.

 

[Psychedelic Spartan]

....

almost ANY RPG that gives you a moral choice

Falout games
Infamous
Dragon age/ mass effect (here its debatle able...you are a massive prick at least)
Overlord
Sants row

hell LOTS of games..if your not a villan then your often morally questionable or at least a prick

going with that, you could even argue for the elder scrolls, especially with my strategy, go invisible thanks to the power I got from nocturnal and steel everything.

 

[bmasta]

i think we should have more scripted villainy, like you not having a choice when exploding megaton, and your character explicitly doing it for the lulz. Also wanton manslaughter, mayhem, and possibly a few misdemeanors like throwing chewing gum wrap on the ground.

 

[Savber]

Overlord is a game that I recall in which the entire idea was just being a bad dude.

 

[skywolfblue]

The Zerg campaigns from SC1 and Brood War were pretty excellent "play as the villain" games.

The Overmind is a pretty interesting take on "evil". From his perspective it's all in the pursuit of the "Purity of Essence". Is he merely a force of nature? Or does he have his own motives?

Kerrigan was pretty much undeniably straight up evil. There's this feeling of being unstoppable as the galaxy gets backstabbed and overrun.

(Well, technically, you play as a cerebrate under their employ so you serve their will anyway)