what is the best assault rifle?

[lolmynamewastaken]

G3, FNC or M4 at a push really.
i don't like the Ak 47 because its in accurate, but the cal. is insane and the reliablity is amazing

I see the counter-strikers have arrived

never played it sorry...

 

[Thwarted]

Best for a focus on reliability? HK416
Best for range, accuracy and firepower? either the FN-SCAR or the Bushmaster ACR

 

[Kassad86]

FN- FAL the right arm of the free world

 

[Mr Companion]

The one that kills people really well.

 

[J.E.T.]

There are no good assault rifles. They're all built to hurt or kill people, and that is not my definition of "good".

Hell I'd rather 'hurt' some dude about to shoot my granny than let him 'hurt' her so yeah...I would wanna hurt him lots and lots better than he would her, rather than before he/she 'hurts' her..... [oh dear my childishness got the better of me again, tee hee]

 

[tsb247]

Beyond a doubt, the M-16 is a piece of shit.
Anyone with weapons experience will tell you that it's a pain in the ass to take apart and reconstruct, it's innacurate and very unreliable.

Ummm... I'm going to have to go ahead and stop you there. The M-16 is FAR from a piece of shit. There are a LOT of people who aren't breathing anymore because of that little black rifle. There's a reason it is still seeing HEAVY use today.

The M-16 is NOT inaccurate in any way, shape, or form. The 5.56x45mm round has proven itself to be a more than accurate round time and again, and the M-16 has also proven very efficient at delivering it. In fact, the 5.56x45mm round has FAR better terminal performance at range than the 7.62x39. The 5.56x45mm round may lack the stopping power of the 7.62x39, but it is a faster round with better ballistics. The only thing that the 5.56x45mm round lacks is the kinetic energy due to it's smaller size. This makes it a little less capable of penetrating heavily armored targets, but with the right kind of bullet, the 5.56x45mm round can still penetrate just about any normal, reasonable, object it will encounter (light wood, drywall, soft body armors, some hard body armors, and many other materials.).

I've never found mine (it's an AR-15, but they are fundamentally the same) to be a pain in the ass to take apart either. It is easy to take apart, and the only real pain can be the bolt carrier, but even that is no big deal. The only reason you would ever want to take that apart anyhow would be to scrape the carbon off of it. As far as the rest of the weapon is concerned, it is a breeze to disassemble and reassemble. No tools are required, and there are very few small parts, no springs, and there are only two pins that hold the upper and lower recievers together.

I have also not had any problem with my AR-15 jamming. As long as you take care of it, it will work. I have fired THOUSANDS of rounds through my rifle, and I have yet to encounter a malfunction. The only reason I can think of that it would jam would be if someone flat-out did not clean it - ever. As long as you keep the carbon out of the bolt-carrier and keep a little Break Free in it, it will work whenever you ask it to.

That's all fine and dandy, but it doesn't excuse the fact that it's a pain in the ass to take apart and reconstruct, and that it has 0 stopping power.
Yeah it's still used today, but only because it's cost effective.
There are at least 10 assault rifles that beat it in every single way, but they're more expensive. I have 2 friends that are in the military, one's a simple lieutenant, the others an MP. BOTH of them have told me how unreliable the M-16 is on the field.
It's accurate, but even they have told me that's it's only advantage.
ONLY advantage.
The weapon was not designed to kill, it was only meant to immobilize any threat.
For some reason it's viewed as "More Humane"
In basic, when one is required to take the M-16 apart and put it back together, they BOTH told me it has too many parts.
I think I'll take the word of two trained soldiers over yours.

It's hardly a pain in the ass to take apart and put back together. I just took mine apart and put it back together (and took pictures to demonstrate how simple it is). This 11 year old girl obviously has no problem with it:

Spoiler

Here are some pictures of my rifle field-stripped. I did not remove the buffer spring nor did I bother with the trigger group since those RARELY ever break. The buffer tube should be swabbed from time to time, but there are differing opinions on that. As you will see it is HARDLY difficult or complex. Field-stripped, the rifle has very few parts. Most soldiers and Marines only need to disassemble it to this extent for cleaning.

Fully Assembled Rifle:

Spoiler

Partial Field Strip:

Spoiler

Field Stripped with disassembled bolt assembly:

Spoiler

Close-up of the disassembled bolt assembly:

Spoiler

Again, there was no need to pull out the trigger group or buffer spring since they should never fail, and if they do, it is usually because the person operating the weapon did RIDICULOUS things to it (like bathe it in bleach and run it over with a tank). I also did not bother with them because the AK field stripping procedure does not remove the trigger group either.

Your claim that it is unreliable is also ill-founded. The design has been in constant revision for 45 years now, and all of the kinks that existed when it was fielded back in 1964 have pretty much been ironed out. Again, the only way it will malfunction on any regular basis is if the person operating it fails to give it basic, routine, maintainence. Any other firearm on earth will fail if it is not properly taken care of. Even the venerable AK-47 can be made to fail if it is not properly maintained. I have seen it myself.

As for your, "0 stopping power," claim, I can promise you one thing. One bullet from an M-16 will kill you just as dead as any single bullet from any other weapon. the 5.56x45mm FMJ can penetrate concrete blocks and also has the tendency to tumble upon entering a soft target. The fact that the round tumbles end over end means that the bullet creates a wound channel that is the length of the bullet rather than just a clean hole!

I too know quite a few Soldiers as well as Marines. Hell, one of them is a certified U.S. Army armorer. Every single one of them swears by their M-16 because it does what it needs to do and it does it very well. It makes bad guys die... And it has more than proven that over the past 45 years or so. Seriously, your claims that it is inaccurate (a laughable claim that will be refuted by anyone who has ever used one), a pain to take apart (which I have shown is not the case), and unreliable are a little ridiculous. Sure, there are better rifles out there, but the M-16 and its variants are hardly, "Shit."

EDIT: Much respect to your enlisted friends, but I am speaking from personal experience as well. The M-16 platform is excellent, and I know very few Soldiers or Marines that will argue differently. I own one, and I feel as though that makes me more qualified to pass judgement than you seeing as how I use, clean, and modify it on a regular basis. Were you ever enlisted?

 

[Echelon_3]

Everyone that's arguing that the M16 is better than the AK because of accuracy, just remember this: Your M16's accuracy doesn't matter if your M16 is jammed and the enemy's AK-47 is not.

Your M16 won't jam if you clean it. Most of its bad reputation comes from the original models issued in Vietnam - It had no forward assist, no cleaning kits were issued, and the military switched to using ball powder for greater power. Turns out ball powder residue turns to glue in tropical climates, so of course it'll gum up the rifle. Once they educated soldiers on how to clean it, added a forward assist and other design tweaks, and went back to stick powder, the M16 is just as reliable as any other rifle.

I'll say it again - The AK47's legendary reliability is due as much to its sloppy manufacturing tolerances than to its design. Short-stroke pistons jam too.

stopping power stopping power stopping power stopping power

Stopping power is a myth. Getting shot with a rifle round WILL put a big hole in you and WILL make you fall down and not get up again for a long time, if ever. In fact, the argument could be made that the "tumbling and fragmenting" effect of 5.56 / 5.45 leaves a bigger hole than the "punch a hole straight through" of the 7.62.

 

[Rigs83]

Americans, we're like Nazis we kill the weak too.

you shouldnt post anymore.
its shit like thats that people need to remember when they wonder why our country has such a bad reputation!
even if your joking all it takes is for this to be seen by someone who thinks your serious.

You do realize you are asking me to give up my right to free speech because you don't like what I said. If I do will you promise to make the trains run on time and punish the traitors to fatherland?

I quote Ian Kershaw "The path to Auschwitz was paved with indifference." Mindless flag waving allowed an unjustifiable war to start that has ended the lives of well over three thousands US Soldiers,Marines, Air Force and Navy personnel who bravely volunteered to serve. The money invested in fighting the Iraq War could literally provide affordable health care to every US citizen, improve and build schools so US students can compete abroad academically and eventually economically as entrepreneurs and workers thus repaying every dollar spent several times over. I may say nasty things because America is not weak and does not needs it's feeling protected. We all have to face cold hard truths about what we have and are doing at home and abroad and actually change for the better as individuals and as a nation.

im not FORCING you to give up anything. i am merely making a sugestion. you have the right to say what you like, but that doesnt always mean its a good fucking idea.

I said that you asked me to give up my rights not forced. Now if you forced me to give up my right to free speech than the Second Amendment may or may not come into play. Now if what I say is slander than a judge can stop me or fine me or if what I say is a threat to you or the public than the authorities have the right to stop me and if I resist the right to use lethal force to stop me.

exactly. i asked. i have the right to ask you to do something. doesnt mean you have to comply. you have the right to say what you want and i have the right to tell you to fuck off. your not forcing me to believe as you do and im not forcing you to shut the fuck up.
YAY we're both exercising our rights!
so you can continue to spew your anti-american hatred and i will continue to laugh at your childish idealistic views.

Funny how you call me childish while you curse like a teenager.

 

[spike2118]

I'd would have to say either the TAR 21 or the M468. The TAR is a lot smaller then the M16 which make you harder to see and get shot. The M468 has a larger round then the M16 which gives it a lot more stopping power.

 

[MasterSqueak]

The MA5B Individual Combat Weapon System.

15 rounds/second, 900 rounds/minute.

 

[Hanzo Hattori]

Americans, we're like Nazis we kill the weak too.

you shouldnt post anymore.
its shit like thats that people need to remember when they wonder why our country has such a bad reputation!
even if your joking all it takes is for this to be seen by someone who thinks your serious.

You do realize you are asking me to give up my right to free speech because you don't like what I said. If I do will you promise to make the trains run on time and punish the traitors to fatherland?

I quote Ian Kershaw "The path to Auschwitz was paved with indifference." Mindless flag waving allowed an unjustifiable war to start that has ended the lives of well over three thousands US Soldiers,Marines, Air Force and Navy personnel who bravely volunteered to serve. The money invested in fighting the Iraq War could literally provide affordable health care to every US citizen, improve and build schools so US students can compete abroad academically and eventually economically as entrepreneurs and workers thus repaying every dollar spent several times over. I may say nasty things because America is not weak and does not needs it's feeling protected. We all have to face cold hard truths about what we have and are doing at home and abroad and actually change for the better as individuals and as a nation.

im not FORCING you to give up anything. i am merely making a sugestion. you have the right to say what you like, but that doesnt always mean its a good fucking idea.

I said that you asked me to give up my rights not forced. Now if you forced me to give up my right to free speech than the Second Amendment may or may not come into play. Now if what I say is slander than a judge can stop me or fine me or if what I say is a threat to you or the public than the authorities have the right to stop me and if I resist the right to use lethal force to stop me.

exactly. i asked. i have the right to ask you to do something. doesnt mean you have to comply. you have the right to say what you want and i have the right to tell you to fuck off. your not forcing me to believe as you do and im not forcing you to shut the fuck up.
YAY we're both exercising our rights!
so you can continue to spew your anti-american hatred and i will continue to laugh at your childish idealistic views.

Funny how you call me childish while you curse like a teenager.

[http://img215.imageshack.us/i/nouj.jpg/]

 

[Neurowaste]

AN-94, too bad it's too complex and expensive to be standardized... also, depends on the situation, goals, limitations, specifications accesories, ect.

 

[US Crash Fire]

Americans, we're like Nazis we kill the weak too.

you shouldnt post anymore.
its shit like thats that people need to remember when they wonder why our country has such a bad reputation!
even if your joking all it takes is for this to be seen by someone who thinks your serious.

You do realize you are asking me to give up my right to free speech because you don't like what I said. If I do will you promise to make the trains run on time and punish the traitors to fatherland?

I quote Ian Kershaw "The path to Auschwitz was paved with indifference." Mindless flag waving allowed an unjustifiable war to start that has ended the lives of well over three thousands US Soldiers,Marines, Air Force and Navy personnel who bravely volunteered to serve. The money invested in fighting the Iraq War could literally provide affordable health care to every US citizen, improve and build schools so US students can compete abroad academically and eventually economically as entrepreneurs and workers thus repaying every dollar spent several times over. I may say nasty things because America is not weak and does not needs it's feeling protected. We all have to face cold hard truths about what we have and are doing at home and abroad and actually change for the better as individuals and as a nation.

im not FORCING you to give up anything. i am merely making a sugestion. you have the right to say what you like, but that doesnt always mean its a good fucking idea.

I said that you asked me to give up my rights not forced. Now if you forced me to give up my right to free speech than the Second Amendment may or may not come into play. Now if what I say is slander than a judge can stop me or fine me or if what I say is a threat to you or the public than the authorities have the right to stop me and if I resist the right to use lethal force to stop me.

exactly. i asked. i have the right to ask you to do something. doesnt mean you have to comply. you have the right to say what you want and i have the right to tell you to fuck off. your not forcing me to believe as you do and im not forcing you to shut the fuck up.
YAY we're both exercising our rights!
so you can continue to spew your anti-american hatred and i will continue to laugh at your childish idealistic views.

Funny how you call me childish while you curse like a teenager.

Damn dude!
its been 2 days are you still going on about this?
let it go man

 

[sov68n]

The newer M16's are pretty reliable. As long as you clean them, and if you're a well trained soldier, you WILL clean your weapon regularly. I see the M16 as a superior military weapon, the AKM is good for militiamen and insurgents as it requires very little maintenance, and is easy to use.

For me, I'd choose the M16 if I knew how to clean it and had access to extra parts and cleaning supplies, because I know that I can actually hit something with the M16. To people complaining about the 5.56x45mm rounds stopping power, only against enemies that have drugged themselves does this prevent a real problem, otherwise the 5.56x45 will preform superbly.

Yea this is true, I guess I was just emphasizing Murphy's Law, and there are plenty of situations in combat where a soldier/marine doesn't have the time or convenience to clean his weapon, or adverse weather conditions (dust storms in Iraq, Vietnamese Jungles) that will lead to your M16 locking up where an AK would not.

 

[Ishnuvalok]

Yea this is true, I guess I was just emphasizing Murphy's Law, and there are plenty of situations in combat where a soldier/marine doesn't have the time or convenience to clean his weapon, or adverse weather conditions (dust storms in Iraq, Vietnamese Jungles) that will lead to your M16 locking up where an AK would not.

Although a weapon jam is serious (Well, extremely serious), it's not hard to clear it. A well trained soldier should be able to be able to clear a jam exceptionally quickly. It's not like if your weapon jams it'll never fire. The problem in Vietnam was that some moron decided to 1: change the powder used in the ammo to a type the gun didn't agree with and 2: An even bigger moron decided issue the gun as "Self cleaning" and not issue any cleaning kits. Still the rifle had some problems, but after they've fixed many of the problems with the newer models.

Dust storms....any gun has a high chance of jamming in a dust storm, even an AKM.

Oh and here's a video of how you unjam an M16 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr-QMqjAhpU

 

[Connor Lonske]

Who needs assault rifles when you have sexy ass guns like the P90?

If you like that you'll love this...

OT: I have to go with the entire AK family. You have an extremely reliable weapon that can be used in any condition that packs a big punch. Even though the Ak47 lacks accuracy, other models like the AK74 have improved accuracy.

If I had to pick something more NATO I would probably have to go with the Scar, or G36, or XM8, or well anything other than an M4.

...Oh. My. God. I need to find out were to get one of those.

 

[Sh0ckFyre]

M4 Carbine. Small, effective, gets the job done.

 

[Echelon_3]

M4 Carbine. Small, effective, gets the job done.

U.S. Special Operations Command called the M4 "fundamentally flawed".

This might sound contradictory coming from someone who's just defended the M16, but keep in mind that the M4 isn't just a sawed-off M16. Its shortened barrel and gas tube cause failures to extract and failures to eject. A shoot-off hosted by the U.S. Army, including the M4, XM8, SCAR, and HK416, included ten of each rifle, each firing 6000 rounds in an "extreme dust environment". The results were:

XM8: 127 stoppages
SCAR: 226
HK416: 233
M4: 882

That meant that the M4 malfunctioned, on average, once every 68 rounds - A little less often than once every two reloads. On the opposite end of the scale, the XM8 (based heavily on the G36 which was in turn based heavily on the AR18) malfunctioned on average once every 472 rounds, or once per 15-16 reloads.

 

[Stalk3rchief]

Beyond a doubt, the M-16 is a piece of shit.
Anyone with weapons experience will tell you that it's a pain in the ass to take apart and reconstruct, it's innacurate and very unreliable.

Ummm... I'm going to have to go ahead and stop you there. The M-16 is FAR from a piece of shit. There are a LOT of people who aren't breathing anymore because of that little black rifle. There's a reason it is still seeing HEAVY use today.

The M-16 is NOT inaccurate in any way, shape, or form. The 5.56x45mm round has proven itself to be a more than accurate round time and again, and the M-16 has also proven very efficient at delivering it. In fact, the 5.56x45mm round has FAR better terminal performance at range than the 7.62x39. The 5.56x45mm round may lack the stopping power of the 7.62x39, but it is a faster round with better ballistics. The only thing that the 5.56x45mm round lacks is the kinetic energy due to it's smaller size. This makes it a little less capable of penetrating heavily armored targets, but with the right kind of bullet, the 5.56x45mm round can still penetrate just about any normal, reasonable, object it will encounter (light wood, drywall, soft body armors, some hard body armors, and many other materials.).

I've never found mine (it's an AR-15, but they are fundamentally the same) to be a pain in the ass to take apart either. It is easy to take apart, and the only real pain can be the bolt carrier, but even that is no big deal. The only reason you would ever want to take that apart anyhow would be to scrape the carbon off of it. As far as the rest of the weapon is concerned, it is a breeze to disassemble and reassemble. No tools are required, and there are very few small parts, no springs, and there are only two pins that hold the upper and lower recievers together.

I have also not had any problem with my AR-15 jamming. As long as you take care of it, it will work. I have fired THOUSANDS of rounds through my rifle, and I have yet to encounter a malfunction. The only reason I can think of that it would jam would be if someone flat-out did not clean it - ever. As long as you keep the carbon out of the bolt-carrier and keep a little Break Free in it, it will work whenever you ask it to.

That's all fine and dandy, but it doesn't excuse the fact that it's a pain in the ass to take apart and reconstruct, and that it has 0 stopping power.
Yeah it's still used today, but only because it's cost effective.
There are at least 10 assault rifles that beat it in every single way, but they're more expensive. I have 2 friends that are in the military, one's a simple lieutenant, the others an MP. BOTH of them have told me how unreliable the M-16 is on the field.
It's accurate, but even they have told me that's it's only advantage.
ONLY advantage.
The weapon was not designed to kill, it was only meant to immobilize any threat.
For some reason it's viewed as "More Humane"
In basic, when one is required to take the M-16 apart and put it back together, they BOTH told me it has too many parts.
I think I'll take the word of two trained soldiers over yours.

It's hardly a pain in the ass to take apart and put back together. I just took mine apart and put it back together (and took pictures to demonstrate how simple it is). This 11 year old girl obviously has no problem with it:

Spoiler

Here are some pictures of my rifle field-stripped. I did not remove the buffer spring nor did I bother with the trigger group since those RARELY ever break. The buffer tube should be swabbed from time to time, but there are differing opinions on that. As you will see it is HARDLY difficult or complex. Field-stripped, the rifle has very few parts. Most soldiers and Marines only need to disassemble it to this extent for cleaning.

Fully Assembled Rifle:

Spoiler

Partial Field Strip:

Spoiler

Field Stripped with disassembled bolt assembly:

Spoiler

Close-up of the disassembled bolt assembly:

Spoiler

Again, there was no need to pull out the trigger group or buffer spring since they should never fail, and if they do, it is usually because the person operating the weapon did RIDICULOUS things to it (like bathe it in bleach and run it over with a tank). I also did not bother with them because the AK field stripping procedure does not remove the trigger group either.

Your claim that it is unreliable is also ill-founded. The design has been in constant revision for 45 years now, and all of the kinks that existed when it was fielded back in 1964 have pretty much been ironed out. Again, the only way it will malfunction on any regular basis is if the person operating it fails to give it basic, routine, maintainence. Any other firearm on earth will fail if it is not properly taken care of. Even the venerable AK-47 can be made to fail if it is not properly maintained. I have seen it myself.

As for your, "0 stopping power," claim, I can promise you one thing. One bullet from an M-16 will kill you just as dead as any single bullet from any other weapon. the 5.56x45mm FMJ can penetrate concrete blocks and also has the tendency to tumble upon entering a soft target. The fact that the round tumbles end over end means that the bullet creates a wound channel that is the length of the bullet rather than just a clean hole!

I too know quite a few Soldiers as well as Marines. Hell, one of them is a certified U.S. Army armorer. Every single one of them swears by their M-16 because it does what it needs to do and it does it very well. It makes bad guys die... And it has more than proven that over the past 45 years or so. Seriously, your claims that it is inaccurate (a laughable claim that will be refuted by anyone who has ever used one), a pain to take apart (which I have shown is not the case), and unreliable are a little ridiculous. Sure, there are better rifles out there, but the M-16 and its variants are hardly, "Shit."

EDIT: Much respect to your enlisted friends, but I am speaking from personal experience as well. The M-16 platform is excellent, and I know very few Soldiers or Marines that will argue differently. I own one, and I feel as though that makes me more qualified to pass judgement than you seeing as how I use, clean, and modify it on a regular basis. Were you ever enlisted?

The how do you explain all of the money the us army delta forces were putting into finding an H&K gun that was better that the colt rifles back in the early 2000's?
They wanted a better gun, but you say they already had the best one?

This forum is about the best gun, the BEST gun. Not a gun that works alright, does the job fairly well, blah blah blah.
I don't honestly give two shits about your preferences, everyone has an opinion, and mine certainly won't be changed by the likes of you.
A gun that designed to immobilize a threat is NOT efficient. I prefer guns that kill.
In fact of all the guns out there, I'd use the HK-XM8 over anything else.
Besides, if I'm right, you shoot your gun at a range, yes?
I've heard so many stories of the M-16 and the M-4 jamming on soldiers in Iraq, it's always in articles and war stories.
But my god, there's no way there right, you are!
=D
Jack ass.