What is the best morality system in a game
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Pretty nice isn't the same as being the supreme white-knights of the waste-lands.theAlfaBlade said:
But then again maybe I just had no issue with screwing them over in NV - others might not have been so happy.
I always thought of it as...ElectroJosh said:
NCR = The Motherland
Everyone else = Either the enemy or new citizens
That sounds kind of bad now that I type it, but it's not that bad.
Conceptually, I love the "Open Palm / Closed Fist" system of Jade Empire. Explained from 3:00 to 5:50 of the following video.
Unfortunately, in practical terms, the game treats these philosophies as a straight-up morality meter instead of accounting for these broader implications. For example, there is one instance where you run across a slave driver with a young woman. In the PC version, your resolution of the incident nets you one of two scrolls, each necessary to learn a special fighting style based on your morality. If you free the woman, you get the scroll for Open Palm. If you convince the woman to free herself, however, you also get the Open Palm scroll. You only get the Closed Fist scroll if you sell the woman personally, despite the "have the woman free herself" option being the closest to Closed Fist philosophy.
That said, I really like the concept of these philosophies, even if the mechanics limit their in-game application.
Unfortunately, in practical terms, the game treats these philosophies as a straight-up morality meter instead of accounting for these broader implications. For example, there is one instance where you run across a slave driver with a young woman. In the PC version, your resolution of the incident nets you one of two scrolls, each necessary to learn a special fighting style based on your morality. If you free the woman, you get the scroll for Open Palm. If you convince the woman to free herself, however, you also get the Open Palm scroll. You only get the Closed Fist scroll if you sell the woman personally, despite the "have the woman free herself" option being the closest to Closed Fist philosophy.
That said, I really like the concept of these philosophies, even if the mechanics limit their in-game application.
I always put New Vegas' choices as
House= Lawful Evil-Lawful Neutral. He essentially trying to set up a dictatorship.
Yes Man/Anarchy- Chaotic Good-Chaotic Neutral. If you do well in the wasteland and power up the robots, this is more or less the best choice. Otherwise it's not as great.
NCR- Lawful Good-Neutral Good. They have basically good intentions, but they're overstreched.
Legion- Neutral Evil- Chaotic Evil. Really, they're pretty well dicks to everybody. However, the upper ranks of the Legion have some of the best characters in the game IMO.
On Topic, as others have said, Alpha Protocol really has one of the best out there, every action has consquence really- even if you switch tones mid-conversation the NPCs react to it.
House= Lawful Evil-Lawful Neutral. He essentially trying to set up a dictatorship.
Yes Man/Anarchy- Chaotic Good-Chaotic Neutral. If you do well in the wasteland and power up the robots, this is more or less the best choice. Otherwise it's not as great.
NCR- Lawful Good-Neutral Good. They have basically good intentions, but they're overstreched.
Legion- Neutral Evil- Chaotic Evil. Really, they're pretty well dicks to everybody. However, the upper ranks of the Legion have some of the best characters in the game IMO.
On Topic, as others have said, Alpha Protocol really has one of the best out there, every action has consquence really- even if you switch tones mid-conversation the NPCs react to it.
None of the choices were "good," just varying degrees of bad. That's what I loved about New Vegas' endings.ElectroJosh said:
To date, Deus Ex and Human Revolution are some of the best displays of morality. There is no good or evil, there are just actions and the consequences that occur as a result.
The same could be said for The Witcher, and to an even greater extent, The Witcher 2.
Tactics Ogre: Let us Cling Together. It legitimately changed how the narrative unfolded as opposed to other games where it gets you a different ending.
I always thought The Suffering handled the morality system in a nice way.
Your character is a death row inmate who's been accused of killing his wife and two kids, though no one really knows for sure, and the main character himself apparently 'blacked out' the whole thing. How you approach the rest of the game dictates what actually happened in your character's past.
Taking good options, like saving/helping out fellow inmates/guards, will lead to you finding out that your character was innocent of the crimes that he was imprisoned for.
Neutral options, i.e. neither hindering nor helping out others or having your escorts get killed by monsters, would lead to you finding out that your character accidentally killed his wife, which would then cause his eldest son to kill his little brother and then himself.
Evil options, like killing everyone you meet and generally being sadistic (you can gas a helpless guard who's trapped in a gas chamber, for example) would lead to you finding out that your character did indeed kill his own wife and kids.
Moreover, the ghosts of your character's dead family will treat him differently depending on his alignment, generally being more positive and supportive if you're good, and being more vindictive and spiteful if you're evil.
Your character's appearance would also change depending on alignment. Being good would give him a clean, healthy appearance; at neutral, his clothes would look slightly shabby and dirty; at evil, he'd have an unhealthy pallor, skin lesions on most of his body, and his clothes are more heavily stained.
There was never anything really overt in the game when it came to making decisions, which was nice. If you saw someone asking for help, you could acquiesce, you could ignore him, or you could just shoot him.
Your character is a death row inmate who's been accused of killing his wife and two kids, though no one really knows for sure, and the main character himself apparently 'blacked out' the whole thing. How you approach the rest of the game dictates what actually happened in your character's past.
Taking good options, like saving/helping out fellow inmates/guards, will lead to you finding out that your character was innocent of the crimes that he was imprisoned for.
Neutral options, i.e. neither hindering nor helping out others or having your escorts get killed by monsters, would lead to you finding out that your character accidentally killed his wife, which would then cause his eldest son to kill his little brother and then himself.
Evil options, like killing everyone you meet and generally being sadistic (you can gas a helpless guard who's trapped in a gas chamber, for example) would lead to you finding out that your character did indeed kill his own wife and kids.
Moreover, the ghosts of your character's dead family will treat him differently depending on his alignment, generally being more positive and supportive if you're good, and being more vindictive and spiteful if you're evil.
Your character's appearance would also change depending on alignment. Being good would give him a clean, healthy appearance; at neutral, his clothes would look slightly shabby and dirty; at evil, he'd have an unhealthy pallor, skin lesions on most of his body, and his clothes are more heavily stained.
There was never anything really overt in the game when it came to making decisions, which was nice. If you saw someone asking for help, you could acquiesce, you could ignore him, or you could just shoot him.
This.kickyourass said:
Having your companions react to your decisions is a much more meaningful goal then "100% goody-two-shoes".
No morality is the best system. Choices should have consequences, but jamming it into some good/evil bullshit does nothing good.
I think the best morality system is one that is completely behind the scenes. The game shouldn't tell you which options are good, which aren't, and what effects they will have. The idea of having a morality counter is silly.
Thats probably a more apt description. I actually wonder if the fact I classified House and Yes-Man to be "good" options says more about me than the game.Hazy said:
For the record, my character is a do-gooder Faceman who just also happens to be a kleptomaniac with ridiculously bad karma.Cyrus Hanley said:
To top it all off, he resembles Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw, complete with glasses and fedora hat.
theAlfaBlade said:
I still think Fallout NV did a great job. Granted the NCR was a safe choice; however, nothing in life is really equal and that is the point. Your choices had consequences and whom you decided to go with could greatly influence how easy (or that much harder) the game will be.
The Witcher. There is no absolute good and evil. There are actions and consequences. And you don't always know what those consequences are until later in the game when it makes sense. The game never punishes you for making a choice. It gives you free will and makes you feel like you did what you thought was best at the moment.