I KID! DON'T KILL ME!
Nah, I don't have a problem with liberal arts. Just not my cup of tea.
What is your definition of the liberal arts?
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
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I KID! DON'T KILL ME!
Nah, I don't have a problem with liberal arts. Just not my cup of tea.
Took a 2 year lib arts diploma graduated '06, before moving on to other things.
Generally it was a mishmash of humanities and academic rhetoric as a ramp up to university applications and scholastic careers. So, Philosophy, Psychology, Sociology, Logic / Debate, Academic Research and Composition / Rhetoric, at it's core with a lot of literature / culture electives.
The name liberal arts and science does carry a partisan political meaning, officially. That said, it is fair to say it's a strong secondary attribute with many teachers and students holding left leaning views.
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@OP: are liberal arts "important" as compared to maths and sciences? I guess you could say it explores the theory of 'why' rather than the mechanics of 'how' regarding society. Because of that, it doesn't really prepare you for jobs outside of academic research and writing, whereas a computer science degree would open many doors and specialized avenues. Some call it useless... I get where they're coming from in a work-a-day sense, but I think it's rich with knowledge and that has value, but it can be a challenge to find a way to apply that out of an academic setting.
As an interesting point, though he's somewhat the exception that proves the rule: Ken Levine - creative director and writer for acclaimed System Shock 2 and Bioshock only has liberal arts as a school background. /factoid
Generally it was a mishmash of humanities and academic rhetoric as a ramp up to university applications and scholastic careers. So, Philosophy, Psychology, Sociology, Logic / Debate, Academic Research and Composition / Rhetoric, at it's core with a lot of literature / culture electives.
The name liberal arts and science does carry a partisan political meaning, officially. That said, it is fair to say it's a strong secondary attribute with many teachers and students holding left leaning views.
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@OP: are liberal arts "important" as compared to maths and sciences? I guess you could say it explores the theory of 'why' rather than the mechanics of 'how' regarding society. Because of that, it doesn't really prepare you for jobs outside of academic research and writing, whereas a computer science degree would open many doors and specialized avenues. Some call it useless... I get where they're coming from in a work-a-day sense, but I think it's rich with knowledge and that has value, but it can be a challenge to find a way to apply that out of an academic setting.
As an interesting point, though he's somewhat the exception that proves the rule: Ken Levine - creative director and writer for acclaimed System Shock 2 and Bioshock only has liberal arts as a school background. /factoid
Really? I didn't think that was rude at all. It's just a reversal of the popular claim that people only go into liberal arts studies because they're bad at math and don't want a challenge, which I see around here all the time.Matthew94 said:
Yes, but without the internet (and entertainment), our lives would not be worth living v:hulksmashley said:
As a Batchelor of Arts and a Master of Sciences, I think I'm probably in a decent position to compare. So basically no, it's fucking rubbish.
Of course, if you do a vocational degree, whether it's an arts degree or a science, it might open up a particular career path for you at the end. BA law, for example, will make it a bit easier for you to work in law. whereas a BSc in Computer Science will enable you to work in an IT department somewhere.
However, a BSc in a "pure" Science is, on its own, just as useless as a BA in English Literature, it's certainly less useful than a BA in Business Studies or even Art History.
Yes, there are high paying jobs in the sciences, but you need a PhD to do them, noone cares about a BSc in Biology unless you plan to teach high school biology.
Yes, any subject which involves rote learning or mathematical skill isn't accessible to some people who aren't good at those things, just like a contemporary philosophy degree is going to be inaccessible to someone who has no capacity for abstract thought. Both of these things are useful skills, both of them are employable, both of them can be difficult to different people.
You know who gets to look down on all of you from atop their mighty ivory tower, though? Language students. No, I don't fucking care how many equations you had to memorize or how you might possibly become a lab assistant in some materials lab one day after spending an extra 5 years getting your doctorate. It's not as hard as learning Chinese in four years, and it's probably not as lucrative either. Sorry about that.
But yeah, let me summarize my position in a single pithy line. Anything can be worth doing if you're good enough at it. What we're talking about here is not "subjects which will get you a job", but subjects which you can be shit at and still get a job because there aren't enough people doing them.
Of course, if you do a vocational degree, whether it's an arts degree or a science, it might open up a particular career path for you at the end. BA law, for example, will make it a bit easier for you to work in law. whereas a BSc in Computer Science will enable you to work in an IT department somewhere.
However, a BSc in a "pure" Science is, on its own, just as useless as a BA in English Literature, it's certainly less useful than a BA in Business Studies or even Art History.
Yes, there are high paying jobs in the sciences, but you need a PhD to do them, noone cares about a BSc in Biology unless you plan to teach high school biology.
Yes, any subject which involves rote learning or mathematical skill isn't accessible to some people who aren't good at those things, just like a contemporary philosophy degree is going to be inaccessible to someone who has no capacity for abstract thought. Both of these things are useful skills, both of them are employable, both of them can be difficult to different people.
You know who gets to look down on all of you from atop their mighty ivory tower, though? Language students. No, I don't fucking care how many equations you had to memorize or how you might possibly become a lab assistant in some materials lab one day after spending an extra 5 years getting your doctorate. It's not as hard as learning Chinese in four years, and it's probably not as lucrative either. Sorry about that.
But yeah, let me summarize my position in a single pithy line. Anything can be worth doing if you're good enough at it. What we're talking about here is not "subjects which will get you a job", but subjects which you can be shit at and still get a job because there aren't enough people doing them.
Hey, the army only gave us 22 months to learn Mandarin D: The thing that sucks about language studies is that most translating/interpreting jobs require that language to be spoken at native fluency level, which means that at best you can translate stuff back to English or hope for a teaching job. My sister majored in Japanese without tying her studies to any vocational application, and she hasn't been able to find a job with her degree since graduating in 2007.evilthecat said:
Chemical Alia said:
Jesus Christ, dude. Are you his mom? Of course I don't know his art background. Which is why it wasn't actually meant to be taken seriously and I kinda thought that would be obvious 0:Matthew94 said:
I had no idea that drawing ability was such a tender subject around here. Especially considering how apparently non-valued it is, lol.
I would also call dismissive trivialisation of a subject rude too, which is exactly what he did.Matthew94 said:
As important for what? To build a bridge? To write a sonnet?Saucycarpdog said:
For definition? I would say if it's a Body of Knowledge not based on the Scientific Method, then it's a liberal art, eg: math, literature, music.
Also... the liberal art vibe is strong in you OP
As entertaining as the tought is, i have meet many people that say they were bad at math thus wanted to go to a mathless career; don't remember one saying what you wrote. Maybe because math teaching is crap? Who knows.Chemical Alia said:
There's a difference between fluency and "interpreter fluency". I knew one guy who was trying to develop interpreter fluency in Japanese, and another who worked as an interpreter for some time. It's a whole different ball game.Chemical Alia said:
Fluency is still pretty fucking good though. Maybe it's because I went to a specialized university, but I don't know a single person who came out of an Asian languages degree and didn't find an extremely lucrative job at the end. Most of them ended up working for the European branches of Asian companies. If your sister hasn't looked there, trying to get an internship with those kinds of places can be an incredibly quick road to success once it pays off. There's often quite a low turnover in those kinds of positions, but when they do hire you you're pretty much set up.
I know one friend who did Korean and Economics and was worried for a while because she couldn't find a job. Needless to say, she now earns more than most of my friends put together. There is enormous earning power in a well-reputed language degree. Very few people do them, and they're known to be extremely difficult.
It also helps to pick a language which isn't on the curriculum in your country, I guess. It's the same with French degrees in the UK. I don't know anyone with a French degree who doesn't have a decent job, but they aren't kicking as much arse as the asian languages graduates.
Oh, that's cool. I know she was trying to pass a certain level on the JLPT test, which was a requirement for most of the jobs she was looking for at some point. I think that she mostly needs to just focus on an actual tangible job, so thanks for the suggestions with that.evilthecat said:
I was a Chinese linguist in the army, and they always went on about how great the job prospects are when you get into the civilian workforce, but I found that I couldn't even find a college that offered Mandarin majors at the time. Most colleges do a pretty poor job with the whole immersion aspect of languages, which unless the students go out and really apply themselves and find opportunities to improve, they're still kind of shaky even after they graduate. Especially with the East Asian ones.
It really does come down to knowing what the actual jobs are out there, and focusing on those skills that will help you get them the best.
This is getting a little too weird, so I'm just going to back out slowly.Matthew94 said:
Your logic doesn't make any sense. He's not a child; he's a member of this community who decided an entire caste of people are worthless because they don't share his views. There's always blowback from that sorta statement, and you're jumpin' on someones nuts just 'cause they didn't just roll over and say "I guess everyone's allowed to have their opinion."Matthew94 said:
