Right, attack Double Fine for taking their time. Also, I can't seem to remember Psychonauts and Brutal Legend kickstarters.
What Kind of Dev Are You?
- Thread starter The Wooster
- Start date
Well if memory and simple internet searching serves correctly, both games had massive companies behind them. Both games were dropped by those massive companies due to massive overspending, constant setbacks, and time to complete the projects being years more than anticipated.RedRockRun said:
Consumers are just reacting in the same manner that publishing execs did, its just that we're able to see it this time due to Psychonauts 2 being a Fig-Funding game.
Huh. Weirdly enough, that's never said. Not in the part you quoted and not in the part you didn't. Did you...quote the wrong person?Krige said:
Except the other difference is the Publisher has the power in the relationship. They hold the purse strings of the Developer and have total control over what happens with the product. If they say that its going out at five in the morning on the fifteenth of April and that's final then they have the capability to force that to happen. If the product performs poorly then they have the ability to withhold bonuses and other contractual agreements. And they have the ability to either outright shut down development studios (if they own them) or to never do business with them ever again and poison their reputation (if its a studio separate from and contracted by the publisher).chimeracreator said:
Thus it is in the developer's best interest to maintain that relationship and to do their best with the product.
Whereas when its a Kickstarter its now the Developer who has the power in the relationship, because the 'money people' are now the direct customers who have very few direct rights or legal actions they can take if they get screwed in the process. And if the Devs in question are very clever they can just spin it as an 'oh me oh my, what a shame' story and preserve a lot of their reputation. There is effectively no accountability in the system; which is both extremely dangerous and very frustrating for people putting their money in.
Its pretty simple to explain the different reactions though. When a deadline and budget is publisher-imposed there's a disconnect between the people setting the deadlines and the people trying to hit them. When the deadline and budget is self-imposed by the developer and they fail to meet it it means they either lied about it or they're incompetent. Because they should have a significantly better idea of what they can manage and for how much.
I for one would laugh so hard vital organs would spew across the room.vallorn said:
I also have yet to see anyone praising AAA studios for being slow af (maybe because so many still put out a broken game to boot), so I'm not sure who this comic is complaining about. The important difference is in what kind of guarantee you're getting for your money. Buying a published game - pretty solid. It may suck in a general way, but A)it exists and B) if enough people complain about broken elements, a decent chance for a fix/refund.
With Kickstarter, you're handing over money for something that doesn't exist yet, but offers at least a chance of refund if the developer completely bows out.
With Fig.. [trombone noise]
I'm gonna throw this out there for people too, just because I saw it today and find it interesting: https://www.kickstarter.com/fulfillment?ref=hero
Well, yeah, obviously people are going to be more critical when they have personally put their own money towards it. That's compounded by the fact that, because of the way Kickstarter works, Kickstarter games often promise more features, etc., and promise much more specific features, so when a game doesn't deliver as intended, someone can go to the Kickstarter page and literally just point out on the page all of the missing features. But even ignoring that, you picked two very poor examples.
Broken Age received over 8 times the funding, almost $3 million more, than its initial funding goal. Of course people are going to become upset when the game is late and over budget when the funding surpassed the original proposed budget by 800%.
Peter Molyneux has been getting shit for unfinished games and unfulfilled promises long before his Kickstarter, so this isn't a Kickstarter-exclusive thing in his case.
Broken Age received over 8 times the funding, almost $3 million more, than its initial funding goal. Of course people are going to become upset when the game is late and over budget when the funding surpassed the original proposed budget by 800%.
Peter Molyneux has been getting shit for unfinished games and unfulfilled promises long before his Kickstarter, so this isn't a Kickstarter-exclusive thing in his case.
The big difference is that when big dev delay a game, they do it wit their money. people still haven't give anything for the game yet. A delay just mean waiting more.
For a kickstarter, they are using the backer's money, not their, they haven't any. So when they delay they more naturally go "WTF are you doing with our money".
For a kickstarter, they are using the backer's money, not their, they haven't any. So when they delay they more naturally go "WTF are you doing with our money".
Yep, when your consumers are also your publisher then they're going to think of your failures more like a publisher would and less like your regular consumers would. For once, they actually are entitled to something.
And as usual the truth is somewhere in the middle. What backers of Schafer are experiencing is what the publishers whogave him money for psychonauts experienced so long ago. This is what happens when you give someone X money to do Y in timeframe Z and not ony does he go over timeframe Z, but also demands W extra over the X you gave him. So maybe now people can start to understand how a publisher views devs who go over schedule and overbudget from an investor perspective.
Mind you, this doesn't excuse the shit practices of investors and publishers regarding rushing games, cutting content for DLC and whatnot. However, maybe we can stop idealizing devs who go over budget and over schedule as some sort of artistic geniuses who must not suffer the constraints of reality, and maybe start realizing that despite what they create, they might just need a bit more discipline and a little reality check here and there.
Mind you, this doesn't excuse the shit practices of investors and publishers regarding rushing games, cutting content for DLC and whatnot. However, maybe we can stop idealizing devs who go over budget and over schedule as some sort of artistic geniuses who must not suffer the constraints of reality, and maybe start realizing that despite what they create, they might just need a bit more discipline and a little reality check here and there.
So are we just not getting any more Critical Miss? Its been almost 3 weeks since this strip so even accounting for Christmas it seems like this has just stopped?
I don't think you know what a strawman is.boag said:oh hey, I fixed your strawman.The Wooster said:
I'm not sure "mishandles" is the right term anymore. At least not after reading some of the stuff reported to be in the FIG agreements and reports. Mishandles leaves open the posibility that he is simply incompetant with the financial side of things. That he spends badly and mismanages money. FIG however... yeah, no. There is no accident going on there. That is deliberate intent.Ticklefist said:
I've long been of the opinion that Gamers fail to appreciate what exactly publishers do bring to the equation. They bring discipline. They are the ones who at the end of the day demand results. They are the group that through their investment and financial risk (and the protection of such) turn 'Art" into "Product". and we forget for all the high falutin talk of "games as art", really what we are all here for is Product. Shit on Bobby Kotick all you want. But never forget that regardless of his verbal diarrhea he is remarkably good at ushering successful games that people are willing to pay for to market.XDSkyFreak said:
Checked the twitters, Cory has been out of town for a while and they said they will get back to work soon, he was flying aboard I think so that's why it's taking so long.Crash_7 said: