what RPG should i work on?

[neonsword13-ops]

persona 4 (ps2)

Is there something wrong with you?!

I don't care if it takes 89 hours (more or less) to complete, just do it, silly.

You will not regret it. Truely one of the best games I have ever played.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

You role play in every game, some just let you create your own role while others assign you one. RPGs are usually defined by a leveling system. Yes it's a badly named genre, like the jellyfish. No it's not actually a fish, but that it what it's called. Don't take it literally.

OP: I'd go with Persona 4.

I hate that BS logic, "you role play in every game." You are not role-playing as Mario in SMB, you are CONTROLLING Mario. There's a HUGE difference between role-playing a character and controlling a character. Look at the history of RPGs, RPGs came about when a guy decided to throw in acting and improvisation into wargaming. You don't read a from a script in DnD, but your characters sure do in a JRPG.

 

[TehCookie]

You role play in every game, some just let you create your own role while others assign you one. RPGs are usually defined by a leveling system. Yes it's a badly named genre, like the jellyfish. No it's not actually a fish, but that it what it's called. Don't take it literally.

OP: I'd go with Persona 4.

I hate that BS logic, "you role play in every game." You are not role-playing as Mario in SMB, you are CONTROLLING Mario. There's a HUGE difference between role-playing a character and controlling a character. Look at the history of RPGs, RPGs came about when a guy decided to throw in acting and improvisation into wargaming. You don't read a from a script in DnD, but your characters sure do in a JRPG.

So an actor isn't playing a role because they read from a script? Role-playing is playing a role, it doesn't matter if you have a script or not. You may not role-play Mario, but when I play games I like to have fun and pretend I'm an Italian plumber out to save the princess. If I controlled him without role-playing I wouldn't save the princess because I hate Peach. Also in case you missed the other half of my post RPGs are necessary about the role-playing, it's history may have been classic role-playing but the definition changed when applied to video games.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

So an actor isn't playing a role because they read from a script? Role-playing is playing a role, it doesn't matter if you have a script or not. You may not role-play Mario, but when I play games I like to have fun and pretend I'm an Italian plumber out to save the princess. If I controlled him without role-playing I wouldn't save the princess because I hate Peach. Also in case you missed the other half of my post RPGs are necessary about the role-playing, it's history may have been classic role-playing but the definition changed when applied to video games.

Acting is a bit of a grey area because they have a script although they are allowed to add quirks and whatnot (physical actions, tone of speech, etc.) to the character they are playing. Some actors have little say over the character, sometimes the director wants a specific performance. For example, Jamie Fox was not role-playing or acting as Ray Charles, he was just impersonating Ray Charles and reading from a script. At other times, the actor may be as big a part as making the character as the writer.

Just because of the technical limitations of video games at the time didn't allow for true role-playing doesn't mean that changes what a RPG is. That's like saying random battles are a requirement for a RPG now because that how early JRPGs did it, which was just because of the technical limitations of early consoles that enemies couldn't be shown in the world.

 

[Quaidis]

Having finished the Legend of Heroes on the psp, I find I can't decide which RPG to devote most of my free time to.

So I've decided to ask you guys what game out of these should I start pouring more time into?

List of games:
Persona 4 (ps2)
Valkyrie Profile 2 Silmeria (ps2)
Zettai Hero Project (psp)
Wild Arms 3 (ps2)
Legend of the Dragoon (ps1)

Or I could play Fallout New Vegas but I'm not sure how close it is to being a rpg.

Persona 4 should be at the top of your list, followed by either WA3 or LotDragoon. WA3 is a very quick game to play (3/4ths of the game is technically optional side quests). Dragoon is a standard rpg from back in the day. If you can find it, WildArms5 is also a fun romp with interesting characters, about the same as 3 except with a longer story.

The second Valk Prof game is terrible compared to the first. They went from an interesting and (admittedly depressing) game with tons of stories and characters to... A bland, standard rpg. The plot is mediocre. The only similarities between the two games are the main characters and that you have to have a walk-through to enjoy the game fully. In VP1 it was with the best(impossible to achieve without help) ending. In VP2 it's getting any of the good weapons/items; there are side quest starters that you wont see without someone online telling you about it. And the other items in the game/menu/etc are disorganized and messy.

I haven't played Zettai. And Fallout has nothing in common with the other games on your list.

 

[Redryhno]

You can have roleplaying in a pure combat sense. Each party member plays a different role... Thief sneaks around, hides in shadows, picks pockets/locks, backstabs. Magic User stays back, casts offensive type spells, Cleric casts buffing/healing spells, fighter on the front lines doing melee combat... That's what the origins of RPGs and d&d was all about. Not character relationships and romances. LOL

I think someone's been playing too many Bioware's recent 'RPGs'

And I think someone here's been playing too many "roll" playing games.

 

[TehCookie]

Acting is a bit of a grey area because they have a script although they are allowed to add quirks and whatnot (physical actions, tone of speech, etc.) to the character they are playing. Some actors have little say over the character, sometimes the director wants a specific performance. For example, Jamie Fox was not role-playing or acting as Ray Charles, he was just impersonating Ray Charles and reading from a script. At other times, the actor may be as big a part as making the character as the writer.

Just because of the technical limitations of video games at the time didn't allow for true role-playing doesn't mean that changes what a RPG is. That's like saying random battles are a requirement for a RPG now because that how early JRPGs did it, which was just because of the technical limitations of early consoles that enemies couldn't be shown in the world.

I never said anything about technical limitations, where did get that from? Videogame RPGs were based on pen and paper RPGs and uses a leveling system with numbers that is similar to its analog counterpart. New games put different spins on the leveling system so that it doesn't always resemble its classic ancestor but it's still a stat driven system. That's why JRPGs are RPGs with no freedom in their role-playing. It's not actually about the role-playing.

Oh and I did forget a not in RPGs are not necessarily about the role-playing. What I typed was pretty much what I was arguing against... Stupid mistake on my part sorry if that was what confused you.

 

[ChildofGallifrey]

As a JRPG nut of some 15 years now, I like your list very much. Also as a [see previous sentence], I would recommend Persona 4 for definite first. Legend of Dragoon is one of my favorite PS1 RPGs, so that's a definite second. Id put Valkyrie Profile 3rd down the pecking order, with Wild Arms bringing up the rear. I haven't played ZHP, so I can't weigh in on that one.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I never said anything about technical limitations, where did get that from? Videogame RPGs were based on pen and paper RPGs and uses a leveling system with numbers that is similar to its analog counterpart. New games put different spins on the leveling system so that it doesn't always resemble its classic ancestor but it's still a stat driven system. That's why JRPGs are RPGs with no freedom in their role-playing. It's not actually about the role-playing.

I meant about the technical limitations is that early video games couldn't recreate every aspect of a pen and paper RPG due to how simple early games were. They mainly chose to recreate the combat of pen and paper RPGs, but if you don't add in the role-playing aspect, they are just basically wargames, not RPGs. Video game RPGs have been mislabeled for decades now because of the limitations of the medium in the early days. JRPGs are just adventure games with a combat system, I like JRPGs but they aren't RPGs.

 

[Theo Rob]

it seems like its persona 4 you guys want me to play the most, so that's what Ill do.
when I complete it, ill probably update this thread instead of making a new one.

 

[TehCookie]

I meant about the technical limitations is that early video games couldn't recreate every aspect of a pen and paper RPG due to how simple early games were. They mainly chose to recreate the combat of pen and paper RPGs, but if you don't add in the role-playing aspect, they are just basically wargames, not RPGs. Video game RPGs have been mislabeled for decades now because of the limitations of the medium in the early days. JRPGs are just adventure games with a combat system, I like JRPGs but they aren't RPGs.

What constitutes as role-playing to you? Would projecting on a blank slate be role-playing or would it require visual customization. Also if you consider games where you play a role where you can choose different choices an RPG would that include dating sims?

If it has to perfectly mimic old school RPGs, is there a single game that does? No modern RPG uses dicerolls in combat.

Everyone seems to have their own take on what makes an RPG, I know one guy I debated with before on this forum said any game with game altering dialog choices was an RPG, including Catherine. I'm wondering what yours is.

 

[SycoMantis91]

Legend of Dragoon. Under-heralded classic.

 

[Redryhno]

You can have roleplaying in a pure combat sense. Each party member plays a different role... Thief sneaks around, hides in shadows, picks pockets/locks, backstabs. Magic User stays back, casts offensive type spells, Cleric casts buffing/healing spells, fighter on the front lines doing melee combat... That's what the origins of RPGs and d&d was all about. Not character relationships and romances. LOL

I think someone's been playing too many Bioware's recent 'RPGs'

And I think someone here's been playing too many "roll" playing games.

Fuck yea. Gold box Style.

You really didn't catch what I was saying there, did you?

 

[GrandmaFunk]

Your list contains all JRPGs, which aren't really RPGs because most JRPGs have no role-playing in them, they are just adventure games with a combat system.

100% serious question: how old are you? and what year did you start playing videogames in?

I'm trying to find a correlation between age and the concept that "JRPGs are not RPGs".

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Actors roleplay. Actors read from scripts. Your point is moot.

JRPGs have been RPGs for 25+ years, and on your so-called expertise, we are supposed to just re-classify them as something else? No. You're not that important.

Edit: also, take your flame war elsewhere. The topic had NOTHING to do with the classification of RPGs. That thread is made very frequently around these parts (as annoying as that is). Peddle it there.

I already covered acting earlier:
Acting is a bit of a grey area because they have a script although they are allowed to add quirks and whatnot (physical actions, tone of speech, etc.) to the character they are playing. Some actors have little say over the character, sometimes the director wants a specific performance. For example, Jamie Fox was not role-playing or acting as Ray Charles, he was just impersonating Ray Charles and reading from a script. At other times, the actor may be as big a part as making the character as the writer.

How am I flaming by saying JRPGs aren't RPGs and saying they are combat adventure games? I never said they sucked or put them down in any way.

What constitutes as role-playing to you? Would projecting on a blank slate be role-playing or would it require visual customization. Also if you consider games where you play a role where you can choose different choices an RPG would that include dating sims?

If it has to perfectly mimic old school RPGs, is there a single game that does? No modern RPG uses dicerolls in combat.

Everyone seems to have their own take on what makes an RPG, I know one guy I debated with before on this forum said any game with game altering dialog choices was an RPG, including Catherine. I'm wondering what yours is.

Since RPG = role-playing game, the very 1st prerequisite for game to be labeled a RPG would be that the game would need to have role-playing in it, it only makes sense. Right now, both Dark Souls and Mass Effect are called RPGs by professional game journalism; however, they have nothing in common except you level up a character. You level up characters in lots of video games now from Batman to Bayonetta to God of War, none of those games would be considered RPGs by anyone; therefore, just leveling up characters can't be the only requirement to be a RPG. Since leveling up is not the determining factor in making a game a RPG, then there's no way both Dark Souls and Mass Effect are RPGs because leveling up was the only thing they had in common.

I would say Catherine has role-playing in it but it seems that one thing that everyone expects a RPG to have is some kind of leveling up; improving stats, skills, abilities, etc. If the main character could improve his skills (like speed, strength, etc.) in the Qbert-like puzzle sections, then it would definitely be a RPG. Those puzzles sections would be the equivalent of the combat in most RPGs. So, Catherine probably shouldn't qualify as a RPG and I would probably say the same for dating sims unless you can upgrade your speech skill and stuff like that in those games (I've never played a dating sim so I don't know what those games entail).

100% serious question: how old are you? and what year did you start playing videogames in?

I'm trying to find a correlation between age and the concept that "JRPGs are not RPGs".

I'm 28 and I started playing videogames with the NES. However, I never really played RPGs until last generation and this generation because I absolutely HATED random battles and I'm a console only gamer as I really don't like PC gaming. I tried playing Final Fantasy VI on the SNES and I just couldn't get through it because of a battle every 3 steps, I got about halfway through the game. I just feel RPGs should have role-playing in them like shooters having shooting, platformers have platforming, etc.

 

[TehCookie]

Since RPG = role-playing game, the very 1st prerequisite for game to be labeled a RPG would be that the game would need to have role-playing in it, it only makes sense. Right now, both Dark Souls and Mass Effect are called RPGs by professional game journalism; however, they have nothing in common except you level up a character. You level up characters in lots of video games now from Batman to Bayonetta to God of War, none of those games would be considered RPGs by anyone; therefore, just leveling up characters can't be the only requirement to be a RPG. Since leveling up is not the determining factor in making a game a RPG, then there's no way both Dark Souls and Mass Effect are RPGs because leveling up was the only thing they had in common.

I would say Catherine has role-playing in it but it seems that one thing that everyone expects a RPG to have is some kind of leveling up; improving stats, skills, abilities, etc. If the main character could improve his skills (like speed, strength, etc.) in the Qbert-like puzzle sections, then it would definitely be a RPG. Those puzzles sections would be the equivalent of the combat in most RPGs. So, Catherine probably shouldn't qualify as a RPG and I would probably say the same for dating sims unless you can upgrade your speech skill and stuff like that in those games (I've never played a dating sim so I don't know what those games entail).

Did you forget the part where I said the leveling system has numerical based stats? You get stronger in the games you mentioned but you don't level up your statistics. Dating sims vary and you do have some where you level up the love your heroine has for you. In iM@S you level up girls to be better idols (practicing singing will level up that stat for her). Or in Monster Girl Quest you fight monsters and level up in a standard way.

While leveling isn't the only thing it is the most important, since the other part necessary IMHO is having a story and/or questline. While the quality of story may be in question, pretty much all non-casual games have one (and even some casual games).

You can improve speed by getting drunk at the bar in Catherine, but that's like the leveling system in the games you mentioned. You have 3 levels no statistics.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Did you forget the part where I said the leveling system has numerical based stats? You get stronger in the games you mentioned but you don't level up your statistics. Dating sims vary and you do have some where you level up the love your heroine has for you. In iM@S you level up girls to be better idols (practicing singing will level up that stat for her). Or in Monster Girl Quest you fight monsters and level up in a standard way.

Mass Effect 2 doesn't have you leveling numerical stats, you level abilities. Your health and stuff increases automatically I believe. The same goes for the new RPG Kingdom of Amalur from what I played in the demo, you level up/improve your abilities. I actually prefer leveling abilities than stats like improving my stealth attack damage by 50% is a lot better to me than raising my strength from 20 to 21.

Outside of your Monster Girl Quest example (which sounds exactly like a RPG even down to the fighting of monsters, it would just need some kind of narrative going on), the other ones wouldn't be RPGs as you are leveling up the girls it seems and not your character, similar to leveling towers in a tower defense game in a way.

 

[Redryhno]

You can have roleplaying in a pure combat sense. Each party member plays a different role... Thief sneaks around, hides in shadows, picks pockets/locks, backstabs. Magic User stays back, casts offensive type spells, Cleric casts buffing/healing spells, fighter on the front lines doing melee combat... That's what the origins of RPGs and d&d was all about. Not character relationships and romances. LOL

I think someone's been playing too many Bioware's recent 'RPGs'

And I think someone here's been playing too many "roll" playing games.

Fuck yea. Gold box Style.

You really didn't catch what I was saying there, did you?

Yea, i did. You were talking about rolling dice, right ?

Okay, this may be a bit weird, I just thought this was a universal inside joke, but there's "roll" playing games and "role" playing games. "roll" as in: BBB (bigger, better, more badass) and then there's "role" as in: playing the characters, not just the game. it's alot easier to describe in person.