Didn't they reboot Spider-Man with a thinly-veiled plot device called Mephistopheles in "One More Day" that basically erased all progress Peter had made and sent him back to square one so the writers could keep him single & anonymous?Ieyke said:
what the heck did they do to Raven's costume (and Raven in general) in the new DC 52?
- Thread starter crazygameguy4ever
- Start date
It only erased certain things. Basically it erased knowledge of his secret identity and saved Aunt May's life in exchange for also wiping out all traces of his marriage to Mary Jane. Everything that happened still happened.Johnny Novgorod said:
It was an in-universe retcon-ish thing accomplished by making a deal with the devil.
It was weird, but it wasn't a reboot at all.
That is true in the comics (or was true; for all I know, it changed in Nu52). It is not true in the cartoon. The cartoon is inspired by the comics, but it is not a transcription of them. It isn't even true that he is called "Deathstroke" in the cartoon.Ultratwinkie said:
I'm sorry, what is this in response to? Is this intended to be proof that the writers only put him in for two seasons to set him up as a minion for Trigon, and if so, how?Ultratwinkie said:
oh god... i... i... o.o that... that hurts my brain just thinking it... but holy fuck... you're right... ow... ow, it hurts, it hurts...Dirty Cop James funs said:
ESPECIALLY considering Femto... being Femto *cringes* and Raven... BEING RAVEN... o.o wow... wow they really dun fucked up there... oh god it hurts... way to fuck a clash of histories there...
i know they have nothing to do with one another, but considering how they 'changed' this Raven from previous canon-Raven and everything i know in the context of Femto... *shudders* that is a connecting thread i really... really shouldn't have read ._. it scares me even more now...
does starting with the show and moving on to reading all the backlog of Teen Titans v2 up to final crisis count? ._. including 'Titans' and some of the other shenanigans along with original 52...Norithics said:
a lot of it was silly, to be honest... comics are a bit 'weird'/insane and continuity is a nightmare... especially when you have about 4 different versions to shift through and other comic tie-ins...
while the silly cartoon show version of the Teen Titans isn't 'canon' per say, it did cover more of the general vibe of the OVERALL comics, and primarily the version 2 Teen Titans where Raven, Starfire and Cyborg originate... it is insane... let me tell you... going from the literal beginning of that all the way up to something that becomes marginally familiar... but i did enjoy it...
the show is the 'kid-friendly' version to be sure, in the comics things got pretty fucked pretty fast, to the point nearly ever comic someone was either reeling from some 'dark evil past' thingy or someone died, nearly-died, AND HOLY HELL!! the drama!! it was awesome!
sticking with Raven, as she is my fav-of-favs for pretty much any superhero, i like her backstory and her development... she starts off as a well-meaning person truly bent on saving the world from her father, she has next to no concept of 'people' and 'personal space' or what is socially 'acceptable', she WILL and OFTEN HAS manipulated peoples emotions to obtain the means and ends she wants, the woman's (as she starts off the 'eldest' of the Titans around 18~20ish) only saving grace, LITERALLY IN THE FIRST COMIC is that she IS doing all of this for the overall 'good' of the universe... she has a stringent 'good' morality... buried underneath all the wacky mysticism shenanigans comics are wont to get into when 'magic' is involved...
Raven, in the comics, is just as much of a 'grey' character as she is in the show, she comes off dark, creepy and aloof, but the reality is she, despite being half-human, is rather foreign to all context of 'human' things, despite oddly clinging closer to 'humanity' then most heroes i see, there's a justifiable battle of 'good and evil' in her constantly... AND HOLY FUCK DOES THE COMICS LIKE TO SCREW WITH THAT!! XD
in the show you don't get to see literal 'Dark Raven', she shows up a lot... Raven's demon nature is nasty... run for the hills if you can... though you likely won't get very far...
now to make this shorter i'll just go into my 'issue' as per the topic for this... i'm conflicted to be honest about what the hell's all going on... Pre52 Raven always struggled with the concepts and warring nature of Good and Evil that is literally in her blood, but she was always genuinely 'good' underneath it all, she may have been capable of manipulations that Batman would give a nod to, but underlying it all was this sense of she was doing it 'for the good of the world', a martyr-type to its most tangible degree... its all muddiled up all over the place because comics are weird, but its still basically there that Raven is a 'good' person... the thing with the new comics... right off the bat, she's basically 'evil' ._. no joke, looks, acts, and effectively is just evil and working for her father, or worse, manipulating him to some degree meaning she's no different/better then he is and he's basically the cosmic devil... i get there's a 'reason' for this with her new back story and all... but its just so... weird... like hard to shake, that deep down she could just be purely 'Dark Raven' instead of just 'Raven'... only marginally less insane meaning probably crueler and with more power...
as someone mentioned 'Lady Femto'... and uttering those words makes me shudder as i'm also a fan of Berserk... and Femto is a bad, bad, bad... demon?
that and i think the face-covering thing looks stupid... also i may be in somewhat nerd-rage as this totally retconed BBRae canon that had only taken FOR-FREAKIN'-EVER to come about... and considering the effort i put into this... yea... yea... wangst is just the tip of the ice burg -.-
Yes, I know. I still don't understand what the point of all this is. Are you saying it's bad to change things and that the cartoon had some obligation to be a literal transcription of the comic line, or what? Whether or not you're saying that, how does that reinforce your point about Slade having no purpose?Ultratwinkie said:
Have you any sort of proof you'd like to present for these assertions?Ultratwinkie said:
I...what? What about continuity? The cartoon ruined the comic's continuity, so people can't complain about it, but the complaints are lies because the original comics told the story badly? And who are the people who are crying about continuity? Because up until now, I thought that was you, since you keep talking about the comics' stories as if the cartoons are not allowed to deviate from them.Ultratwinkie said:
"Sir, did you say watermelons or just regular melons?"Lilani said:
"Is there water in them?"
"Uh, I-- Mayb--"
"Watermelons it is then."
"And the nipples?"
"NIPPLES?
WHAT!?
THINK OF THE CHILDREN! Are you insane!? Why would you subject a poor kid to that. My god. You are a sick man, hypothetical comic book illustrator. Get back to your nondescript desk where you will continue to do this writer's rendition of appropriate work."
I've no idea where that went at the end.
OT:
Yeah, no. I'm not buying it.
Those are carrying at least one bag of Mexican cartel crack each.
Y'know, every time I hear anything from DC, my theory that the people in charge of things sort of lost their goddamn minds at some point before Countdown and the reboot.
I've yet to see much to disprove that theory. The costume isn't SO bad for the most part, but then they added that huge freaking cleavage window and now I feel like I'm being patronized.
"Look fanboy! It's Raven! You like Raven don't you!? And look! She has huge bewbs now, and they're out on display! Doesn't that make you wanna give us money!?"
I mean, her old outfit was sexy as all hell too, but it was a lot more classy. The most it did was show off the legs.
Cover up the cleavage, put some more material around the crotch, and I'd have nothing bad to say about the look for the most part.
I've yet to see much to disprove that theory. The costume isn't SO bad for the most part, but then they added that huge freaking cleavage window and now I feel like I'm being patronized.
"Look fanboy! It's Raven! You like Raven don't you!? And look! She has huge bewbs now, and they're out on display! Doesn't that make you wanna give us money!?"
I mean, her old outfit was sexy as all hell too, but it was a lot more classy. The most it did was show off the legs.
Cover up the cleavage, put some more material around the crotch, and I'd have nothing bad to say about the look for the most part.
i don't see an issue with the new costume design i think it looks cool and the new 52 got me into DC's comics since i was so confused with the state of the game before they just canned everything and started fresh admittidly i am still a bit confused but im not a huge comic book geek
Ultratwinkie, forgive me if this sounds curt, but I've said this a couple of times now and you don't seem to get the point, so:Ultratwinkie said:
I know the cartoon's story differs from the comics'. I have said that, and you have said that. You are repeating something I already know. It is not the question I'm asking. I am asking why you keep bringing it up. The cartoon and the comics were not trying to tell the same stories, any more than Stephen King and Robert Browning were trying to tell the same stories, even though the latter inspired the former immensely. So I will ask you again: are you saying the cartoon is obligated to be a literal transcription of the comics?
That is not about continuity. It is about comparison. There is a Raven now that no one likes compared to the previous versions they're aware of (and I like to think they wouldn't like her even without a point of comparison, but never mind).Ultratwinkie said:
Deathstroke isn't there. Slade is there. A guy who may or may not have one eye and who has zero explicitly listed powers I am aware of is there. They are not the same character.Ultratwinkie said:
First of all, bullshit. Consumption is an entirely voluntary process. No one was forced to watch the show, so you don't get to phrase it like DC crammed it down anyone's throat. All anyone had to do was change the channel to not see it.Ultratwinkie said:
Second, there is no real story. It's all imaginary. One is based on the other, but they are not the same damned things.
Third, please don't think I haven't noticed that I asked you for proof of the claims you've made about who was thinking what at which times and you refused to provide any, instead just repeating the same stuff over and over.
its made worse because she 'is' now more on the demon side then anything else... and if Femto did what he did just to fuck with Guts... and this Raven pulls a whole 'Lady Femto' *shudders* with her powers... and the fact Trigon's basically setting her up as mistress of the universe under demon rule...Dirty Cop James funs said:
._.
hold me... i am scared...
and dear gods no one get in her way and truly piss her off... pre52 Ravy at least had 'good at her core' to balance it out... this one... well... it might be there but is easily tossed to the side... Lady Femto indeed... please tell me whoever did the new design isn't a Berserk fan nor read it... it might give them ideas T.T
this is made even worse as its a complete off-the-charts shift from OG-Raven if they go that route... she had SEVERE issue with rape due to how she came about and it colored her view of the world... also probably accounted for half her martyrdom-complex... this Ravy without that stigma... yea... yea... comparing her to Femto is probably the biggest F*U anyone could do to someone that loves Raven as a character...
Okay, cool. I'll see if I can get a hold of it somehow. Is the entire story contained in that issue, or does it continue in others? I also continued reading the comics I have, and so far I cant complain. I think her personality plays out pretty much as you would expect.Ultratwinkie said: