what the heck did they do to Raven's costume (and Raven in general) in the new DC 52?

[Relish in Chaos]

Wait?people still read DC?s comic books? I don?t mean that in a snobbery ?comics are just for kids?-type situation, since I have a fairly respectable manga collection and read the odd Batman paperback myself, but I literally don?t know anyone that reads comic books or has any interest in comic culture outside of the films (which, obviously, are being marketed much more)?

Anyway, DC don?t give a shit what you think. They?re rolling in the dollar either way. They don?t care about their female readership, regardless of its size. They don?t care about its superheroines. They don?t care about whether or not their ?sex sells? tactics are still working on the people that read this (again, I don?t know the numbers, but it?s presumably small; just the purists, I guess). It?s just the norm; it?s what they do.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Ultratwinkie, you ARE aware that the Teen Titans cartoon is a different Canon than what is in the Teen Titans comic right? Are you even aware of the concept of differing canons? Cause I'm honestly starting to wonder.

Honestly makes me wonder what your reaction to the Ultimate Marvel series was.

 

[Armadox]

As far as Raven's new costume is concerned. I think it doesn't matter. At all. Raven can be bone masked, Lobo can be skinny and immaculate, Beast Boy can be red, Green Arrow can use guns, and Waller can be a super model. The fact is, nothing they do matters to the story or the cast, and everything to do with the bottom line is king, and how fast they can milk a title or drop it. DC isn't changing because they can keep tossing out new stuff quickly enough to keep hooks in their audience. They screw up a title, they cancel it without remorse, and just grab whatever they can from the batman universe to fill in the blanks.

Look at what travesty they did to the Milestone comic characters, the poor decisions on Starfire and Harley Quinn, the cancelling of compelling stories like Amethyst: Princess of Gemworld without giving them the time to make a start. Giving Hawk and Dove to Rob "I can't draw feet" Liefeld?! Not to mention Animal Man's last issue was basically nothing but a plot synopsis without trying to tie up a single loose end.

You want to talk about Raven's costume, I honestly feel that's insulting as it's giving attention to this. No, instead I'd recommend some wine that is a little less bitter.

Check out Image. They have Saga, Lazarus, and Saviors all going strong. As well as their Shadowline series. Rat Queens is fantastic, and Five Weapons has a good plot and great action. How about Valiant? Quantum and Woody and Archer & Armstrong are hilarious reads. Action Lab has a must read in Princeless. Comix Tribe has been putting out The Red Ten, a comic that takes analogues of the justice league and kills them in a who-dun-it fashion. IDW has a crossover story that has the X-files comic try to explain away the Ghost Busters, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Transformers to name a few. They're also printing a Samurai Jack comic! Or.. Or Boom! Translucid is just starting, which has the same flavor as Incorruptible, they're also finishing up Loki: Ragnarok and Roll where Loki is banished to earth and forms a rock band to fight the other gods, or Superbia is a good one. Superheroes as Soap Opera. Oni Press has The Sixth Gun, a weird west tale, or the Courtney Crumrin series......

Honestly, that runs the gambit in tone and art, but they all are solid comics, and deserve to be read. Not the weak, pandering, meandering slop DC's trying to cobble together. Give attention to the comics that have story. To the art teams that try to put out something new and exciting. It's not about what character DC changes or abandons now, here is the chance to try something new.

Even Marvel has Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel and they've just started an event called Original Sin that are really turning out to be fun.

 

[Vault101]

Wait?people still read DC?s comic books? I don?t mean that in a snobbery ?comics are just for kids?-type situation, since I have a fairly respectable manga collection and read the odd Batman paperback myself, but I literally don?t know anyone that reads comic books or has any interest in comic culture outside of the films (which, obviously, are being marketed much more)?

uhhh...yeah

its a thing that exists and theres actually a lot of cool comics outside of the big two...I can't say much for marvel but I wonder why people bother with DC at all

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

I mean as someone who doesnt read comics, has no interest in raven in particular, and doesnt give half a fuck about characters being sexualized, it's more interesting than her old design I think. Oooooh shes so dark because she wears a hood that covers her eyes. I've never seen that before.

Now she looks like some kind of demon raven-harpy thing. Isn't trigon supposed to be DC's version of Satan? Purely by visual design she looks like some kind of demonic humanoid, which I like more than "shes a goth or something."

 

[MattRooney06]

Thank god for this costume change!!! For a moment there I thought DC were capable of making a female character without sexualising her to a ridiculous degree!

 

[JimB]

I really wish you'd learn how quotes work, Ultratwinkie.

Slade has kids. Even the wiki mentions it.

I do not consider a wiki to be a reliable source of information, since the information contained therein could be written by any moron who doesn't know what he's talking about. Do you have a link to it so I can see if this assertion cites any sources?

The Teen Titans in the comics formed because of the Trigon threat. In the cartoon, it exists because reasons. No explanation.

Loneliness and mutual need. This is explained in the origin episode.

Even when the kids gets betrayed, they trust the betrayer.

What are you talking about? What betrayal happened that they trusted the betrayer after it came to light? Shit, they lost faith in Robin after the Red X thing.

Raven leaves her mentors and the only ones that can teach her powers? And still doesn't go there when she loses control of her powers?

If she ever returned to Azarath, then please point out the episode where it happened. Until then, I will have to assume you are making shit up.

Cutting people from her life? If she is so powerful, why not just cut the Titans out too?

First of all, power has nothing to do with emotional connections, so I don't know why you'd bring that up. That's just weird. To answer the part of the question that makes sense, though, she doesn't cut out the Titans because she has created a relationship with them she can tolerate. They aren't close to her and she's not close to them; most of them are more like workplace buddies than friends or family. Even Robin, with whom she explicitly has a deeper relationship because of telepathy, is still held at arm's distance and their bond never mentioned.

Raven "can't have" [friendship], from your own words.

I invite you to read my post again, because that is not what I said. You are making shit up.

You can't have it both ways. Either Trigon is a joke stopped by teenagers with only 25% of their real power, or Trigon is a huge deal.

I scarcely know where to begin here. I guess let's start with, where on Earth are you getting the number 25% from? And are you arguing that all members of a team, despite having different powers and abilities and aptitudes, need to be equally useful in all situations for their contributions to be valid? Are you saying it's not alright to have a personal story resolved mostly by the character whose story it is, with the other main cast being in support roles?

It's hilarious how you say, "You don't know what the characters are thinking!" but then turn around and offer a fanfiction level explanation of Raven's problems. And Slade too.

It would be hilarious, if I had ever said that. You are making shit up.

"Oh look, I tell no one anything because the writers are lazy fucks. I am also dead."

You are assuming that because the theft was only discovered after Slade's death that the information was imparted after Slade's death. That is nonsensical. You don't think a thief might, just might have needed a lot of time to set up such a heist, discovering the Titans' security systems and planning the details to get away with it?

"Vengeance" for stopping a Z-list villain that was meant to be defeated?

First things first, I confused Cinderblock with Plasmus. My mistake. I apologize for that.

Second: yes. It is a stated and explicit fact that he wants vengeance for that.

Third: please explain how you know Slade intended for either of those villains to be stopped, because it sounds like you are making shit up.

On top of that, even when the city is taken over, then what?

I would guess the goal is less to do anything with the city than to just have it. As far as I can tell, taking over the city wasn't Slade's goal until the Titans pissed him off. It seems to be based on spite.

And again you misinterpret everything:

the comics:

a-b-c-d-e-f-g

Clear line. Everything works in tangent.

The cartoon:

b=e/z+a

See the difference?

Yes. You are stringing letters together in a nonsensical arrangement only vaguely related to an actual pattern to prove events you aren't referencing don't make sense. It's like watching Glenn Beck writing acronyms on chalkboard as proof of Obama's eeeeevil, like how you can prove Obama is racist (not to mention socialist) by writing,

Reparations
Against
Caucasians
In
Socialist
Traps

After all, he was able to arrange those letters in sequence, so it must be true.

You are saying that because its a "different universe" means it's okay.

No, I am not. You are making shit up. I'm saying it being a different universe makes it okay to not be the universe you keep insisting it is. It's okay because it's okay, not because it's a different universe.

 

[Tono Makt]

I have no idea who that is or what they did to her. Looks like any other superhero to me.

I just want to say that I actually kinda like the mask/helmet. Looks pretty cool to me.

Sort of agreeing here. I'm not entirely happy with the putting her tata's and DAMN! DAT A$$! out on display - to the degree that they are; it looks like skintight spandex is covering everything. But I'm not upset with it either due to the spandex covering everything, so it's not even as blatant as Power Girl's old (current?) Bewbie Window outfit. And I do like the raven mask; that's cool looking to me.

The crux of the issue for me would be how they write the character. Like most people my experience with Raven is from the Teen Titans cartoon, not the comics. (I've never actually been a big fan of DC comics, as evidenced by my favourite DC Character: Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern.) And as many have pointed out... that's a kids cartoon. Maybe for young teenagers rather than preteens, but still for youths. So I fully expect that her comic persona will be different than her cartoon persona.

As I have no interest in buying any of the new 52, I suppose I'll have to rely on snippets from debates like this to form an opinion on how much they have changed Raven.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Slade has kids. Even the wiki mentions it.

I do not consider a wiki to be a reliable source of information, since the information contained therein could be written by any moron who doesn't know what he's talking about. Do you have a link to it so I can see if this assertion cites any sources?

I know I'm jumping into this thread late, but weren't a couple of Slade's kids (Jericho and...thingy. The angry girl. Ravager?) actually members of the Titans at one time or another?

 

[Primus1985]

I'l start off by saying that Raven of the Teen Titans is and always has been my favorite character of the DC Universe and comics in general.. and there's nothing wrong with updating characters a bit, but seriously... what they did they do to Raven?

That is not what Raven looks like or acts like.. and yeah I know they updated and ruined a lot of other characters in the new 52, but come on.. why DC?.. why did you ruin such a interesting character who finally had a relationship with Beast Boy and was ready to move past so much of her awkward life.. into what ever she's become in the new 52..
what does everyone else think of how they ruined Raven?

*deadpan voice* Wow, im so shocked. DC ruining a character with their new 52 by giving them an ungly costume and changing their personality. This has never happened before...


In all honesty, I barely even watch DC's animated movies because the New 52 nonsense has started leaking in. DC has lost its touch and doesnt care about its core fanbase.

 

[JimB]

Jericho is one, and Slade makes mentions of him in the dialogue but not by name directly.

The links you provide specifically say the cartoon never refers to Jericho as Slade's son. Seriously, I can't keep this shit up with you any more. Making shit up is one thing, but citing sources that explicitly refute the shit you are making up is just...no. You're just fucking with me at this point.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

I love this thread!
Have a half-daemon goth chick named Raven in a midnight blue leotard and matching cape? Sure! Makes total sense.
Have a half-daemon goth chick named Raven in a strange other-worldly pseudo bird type costume with bloody claws? Hell no! What do you think this is, a comic book or something?!

 

[SUPA FRANKY]

Sexualization? What sexualization? It's not like she has a cleavage window or is doing stripper poses or anything? I don't see anything.

 

[faefrost]

From an outsider's perspective, I don't understand why DC hates money.

What do the majority of people know Raven as? Her appearance in the TV Shows Teen Titans and the current Teen Titans Go!

Why they would deviate from that look and attitude, ya know the only thing that may cause a casual person such as myself to pick up a comic, is just retarded. It's like how they killed off Artemis even though she was basically the "Morph Of the Xmen" of Young Justice.

All though just reading this myself, I am sounding a lot like "They changed it so it sucks now"... That was the whole point of the reboot right? Change and a fresh history?

It's even worse. In the TV versions of Raven and Starfire they found comic book Superheroes that young girls liked and admired. Heroes that could actually hook them into comics and DC's properties. So what do they do? NEW 52! Convert them to intergalactic and demonic hookers. Good plan there Warner Brothers.

The same thing happened with the Young Justice animated series. The show was pulling a decent number of viewers. But apparently they were the wrong type of viewers. They had a far higher than expected female viewership. This wasn't feeding into their target demo of young male viewers to sell action figures to, so the show got shit canned.

New 52 isn't change and a fresh start. It's a retreat to the worst offenses of the 90's, with a veneer of modern political correctness thrown in ("see we made Green Lantern gay! Isn't that modern and different?" Does it matter that you never heard of this Green Lantern before, or in the old version he was a 40's era conservative parent coming to terms with a gay Superhero son, which was a much better and deeper and relatable gay storyline than "see Green Lantern is gay now!")

The cartoons were the fresh start. Teen Titans, Young Justice, etc. those were showing the characters in new ways, broadening the overall appeal and growing the fans. New 52? Not so much.

 

[JimB]

I love this thread!
Have a half-daemon goth chick named Raven in a midnight blue leotard and matching cape? Sure! Makes total sense.
Have a half-daemon goth chick named Raven in a strange otherworldly pseudo-bird-type costume with bloody claws? Hell no! What do you think this is, a comic book or something?!

I do not believe you are accurately representing the complaints. People are not complaining that one outfit makes more sense than the other; they're complaining that the outfit she's currently wearing is both ugly and offensively sexualized, a combination of items from an H.R. Giger catalog and www.wickedtemptations.com. I don't know how old the current incarnation of Raven is, but since she is in a book called Teen Titans, I would guess that her outfit is entirely inappropriate.