What The Hell Happened Here?

[ElPatron]

Entitled is thrown around a lot, but let me tell you this.

In my opinion, there are people on the Escapist who think that publishers should have a leash on the consumers so that we can't get between them and their rampant fanboyism for particular developers.

Apparently, we shouldn't vote with our wallets, and we shouldn't wait for a game to drop to reasonable prices. And you should be burned alive if you buy used games.

I'm out.

 

[DustyDrB]

Guys...you're doing it again.

 

[Zayle79]

Are you not paying attention? I don't have enough fingers on both my hands to count the PLETHORA of me3 threads spawned in AN HOUR. This is not up for debate. Right now we are witnessing a fanboy armaggedon. They are going out of their shits right now. I can only imagine how bad BSN is. It must be like world war 3 over there.


I am so tired of dealing with this accusation of me automatically equating my opposition with fanboyism.

NO. this is incorect. I only label the Bioware apologists as fanboys. Thats to say if you're putting up piss poor arguments just because you love the game then you're a fanboy. if you're unwilling to agree with reasonable and well thought out arguments because of what its directed at. you're a fanboy.

Please making up these silly ideas about me. They just aren't true.

You just contradicted yourself, I think. You just said that you don't label people who disagree with your arguments fanboys, but then you said that people who disagree with "reasonable and well thought out" arguments are fanboys. According to common sense, everybody considers their own arguments to be reasonable and well thought out. You said that you don't call people who disagree with you fanboys, then you turn right around and say that "Bioware apologists" (meaning people who liked the game) are fanboys. I don't think you grasp the subjectivity of quality. To put it simply, quality is subjective. Get it?

 

[Netrigan]

It's not that bad.

Most of the actual nastiness is being generated by a handful of individuals. (No prizes for guessing who.)

The rest is just disappointment and bitterness.

I almost (note, almost) wish the game had been entirely bad from beginning to end. Instead we got a fantastic game that waits until the last ten bloody minutes to shit itself inside out and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Same here, although I think the franchise will right itself with the next game. I think people wanted closure and when the next game comes out and we start seeing what happened to the galaxy and our old friends, ME3's final ten minutes will just be considered a missed opportunity, not the Ultimate Betrayal.

This was the first time Bioware ever gave us the choice of how to end a Mass Effect game, so it's not really not all that surprising that all the endings are pretty much the same. They need to be able to pick things up for the next game regardless of what decision you made. They probably would have been better off having one ending, with a couple of Paragon/Renegade choices on exactly how it played out... such as do you kill Martin Sheen or let him live.

 

[DustyDrB]

And it comes down to the age old thing of "opinions". People just cant deal with others who disagree with them -.-

It goes a little beyond that.

Let's say you have an opinion. And your opinion is that you really like chocolate.

I dislike chocolate, but really enjoy vanilla.

I could come to the forum and say "Hold on now, old chap. I see you like chocolate, but have you considered these flaws? And please, be patient while I express to you the merits of vanilla!" That's a reasonable divergence of opinion. It's healthy. It's good to have your opinions challenged. This kind of agreeable disagreement occurs in about 1% of forum posts.

The alternative, which occurs in about 99% of forum posts, is where I storm your thread, call you a chocolate fanboy, completely exaggerate and overstate every imaginable problem with chocolate, and then spend the next 5-10 pages of the thread arguing past you by loudly shouting down every single thing you say.

It's really just run of the mill attitude polarization, although it's kind of amusing watching it seep into something that should be emotionally neutral, like video game discussions. You expect it in the politics and religion forum, but it's really gotten to the point where you can't discuss anything without it turning into an argumentative screaming match by the 2nd page. People just love a fight.

Sounds like that bit from Thank You For Smoking.

This is what we have a lot of here. People can't admit when they are wrong, so they change the argument. They aren't interested in discussion, they're interested in winning...something.

 

[Zayle79]

I shall ammend my statement. I don't categorize people who JUST* disagree with my argument as fanboys. It's when they get all irrational and lack any good argument that the labeling begins.

And your arguments have to be pretty pathetic for me to label you a fanboy. I acknowledge that most arguments have something valid about them. To make an argument that has 0 or very little validity is pretty damn telling of a fanboy.

Quality is not subjective. So no I don't get it. I acknowledge that somewhere somehow someone likes what I don't like. but to say quality is subjective is going a little bit too far. We have societal standards for most things. We judge quality using those standards.

Okay, quality isn't always subjective--the better surgeon is the one who kills the fewest patients. But regarding anything that's valued primarily for its entertainment, like video games, quality is entirely subjective.

You can't put any two games next to each other and objectively say that one is better than the other; for instance, you can't objectively say that Dragon Age II is worse than Dragon Age: Origins. It is, of course, and most of us here could agree on that. But even if every single person on the planet believed that Origins was better, it's still subjective. It's in your mind, rather than being a physically quantifiable characteristic. That makes it subjective.

What's the point of making fun of people who don't have a good enough reason for liking something?

 

[Sparrow]

I don't think it's THAT bad. There seem to be certain extremes from both sides of the Mass Effect 3 ending debate that are making everyone look bad, though. For instance, folks that are demanding a free DLC changing the ending are just being ridiculous. On the other hand, folks that post certain news articles on the site *cough* Andy Chalk *cough* telling people to stop whining even though said folks haven't actually played the fucking game aren't helping either.

I think most folks are firmly in the "I didn't like that ending but I ain't crazy enough to demand a free ending" camp.

...because you better start believing in fanboys or else your faith in humanity will deteriorate.

 

[TheDrunkNinja]

Most of the actual nastiness is being generated by a handful of individuals. (No prizes for guessing who.)

Who would even consider giving out prizes for stating the obvious?

OT: I'm starting my play of ME3 today. I've had a lot of build up from the internet about these endings, but what I'm holding onto the most as I ready myself for that final battle is the build up that was provided by those who are close to me personally and their opinions on the ending. None of my friends can match the pure unadulterated flaming bile that has spewed from every corner of the internet. The range of reaction I've gotten from them about these endings has been from "Meh" to "I don't see why this is in anyway rage inducing", and I trust their word far more than anyone on any of these sites, no offense. I feel good about what's to come knowing that the people who share the same interests and opinions as me felt good when they finished the game.

 

[Fappy]

Guys...you're doing it again.

Its like telling children not to touch the stove XP

 

[Scabadus]

It's not that bad.

Most of the actual nastiness is being generated by a handful of individuals. (No prizes for guessing who.)

The rest is just disappointment and bitterness.

I almost (note, almost) wish the game had been entirely bad from beginning to end. Instead we got a fantastic game that waits until the last ten bloody minutes to shit itself inside out and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Same here, although I think the franchise will right itself with the next game. I think people wanted closure and when the next game comes out and we start seeing what happened to the galaxy and our old friends, ME3's final ten minutes will just be considered a missed opportunity, not the Ultimate Betrayal.

This was the first time Bioware ever gave us the choice of how to end a Mass Effect game, so it's not really not all that surprising that all the endings are pretty much the same. They need to be able to pick things up for the next game regardless of what decision you made. They probably would have been better off having one ending, with a couple of Paragon/Renegade choices on exactly how it played out... such as do you kill Martin Sheen or let him live.

The entire point of Mass Effect 3 was that it was to be the series' finale and therefor didn't have to keep things within tight constraints for the next game. You should have been able to kill the Illusive Man, destroy the Citadel and dance a jig on the Asari councilor's head; the writers didn't have to worry about the consequnces being too far-reaching for all of them to be taken into account for the next game.

 

[Netrigan]

It's not that bad.

Most of the actual nastiness is being generated by a handful of individuals. (No prizes for guessing who.)

The rest is just disappointment and bitterness.

I almost (note, almost) wish the game had been entirely bad from beginning to end. Instead we got a fantastic game that waits until the last ten bloody minutes to shit itself inside out and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Same here, although I think the franchise will right itself with the next game. I think people wanted closure and when the next game comes out and we start seeing what happened to the galaxy and our old friends, ME3's final ten minutes will just be considered a missed opportunity, not the Ultimate Betrayal.

This was the first time Bioware ever gave us the choice of how to end a Mass Effect game, so it's not really not all that surprising that all the endings are pretty much the same. They need to be able to pick things up for the next game regardless of what decision you made. They probably would have been better off having one ending, with a couple of Paragon/Renegade choices on exactly how it played out... such as do you kill Martin Sheen or let him live.

The entire point of Mass Effect 3 was that it was to be the series' finale and therefor didn't have to keep things within tight constraints for the next game. You should have been able to kill the Illusive Man, destroy the Citadel and dance a jig on the Asari councilor's head; the writers didn't have to worry about the consequnces being too far-reaching for all of them to be taken into account for the next game.

Had this truly been the final game of the Mass Effect Universe, then they could have had let you completely destroy the universe without fear of consequence. The second they decided there would be future games, they had to reign in the consequences of your actions or else invalidate many player's decisions as non-canon.

They fumbled the ball, but I figure they'll end up doing what they've done twice before. Front-load the next game with details of what happened next.

 

[Sandjube]

And it comes down to the age old thing of "opinions". People just cant deal with others who disagree with them -.-

It goes a little beyond that.

Let's say you have an opinion. And your opinion is that you really like chocolate.

I dislike chocolate, but really enjoy vanilla.

I could come to the forum and say "Hold on now, old chap. I see you like chocolate, but have you considered these flaws? And please, be patient while I express to you the merits of vanilla!" That's a reasonable divergence of opinion. It's healthy. It's good to have your opinions challenged. This kind of agreeable disagreement occurs in about 1% of forum posts.

The alternative, which occurs in about 99% of forum posts, is where I storm your thread, call you a chocolate fanboy, completely exaggerate and overstate every imaginable problem with chocolate, and then spend the next 5-10 pages of the thread arguing past you by loudly shouting down every single thing you say.

It's really just run of the mill attitude polarization, although it's kind of amusing watching it seep into something that should be emotionally neutral, like video game discussions. You expect it in the politics and religion forum, but it's really gotten to the point where you can't discuss anything without it turning into an argumentative screaming match by the 2nd page. People just love a fight.

People just love a fight. On the internet. Where they can't actually be hurt. And they can feel superior. Also, awesome analogy.

....I like chocolate and vanilla.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Ahh, a voice of reason in these troubled times. Good ol' Fappy.

Yeah. I recently have started noticing this too, So I've taken to just avoid the entire issue altogether. Also, I have to say as well "What the fuck guys?"

2010 Escapist would have absolutely shit on this uprising of negativity. And for fuck's sakes everyone; Take two precious seconds to check the forums to see if an identical thread has already been posted before you say something. There was 4 threads of the exact same thing this morning, and right before I posted here I saw "Indoctrination theory" pop up twice. Everything that can possibly be said has been said. Multiple times. With different influctuations, and different tones. Often times yelling at another person, and I'm sure it's been said in Spanish. Probably in the very thread that you are posting in.

There comes a point where you have to just let it go. Sign the damn thing if you have to, and move on. I love the Escapist for the varying conversations, yet it's getting hard to find them when all there is is a sea of anger in text about Mass Effect 3. And for fuck's sakes, don't start actual fights with the people who don't share your opinion.

Would you rather belong to a community of friends, or a community of enemies that you made off of a disagreement over a game?

Edit: Is "and for fuck's sakes" becoming my catchphrase? Because I would be fine with that.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

And it comes down to the age old thing of "opinions". People just cant deal with others who disagree with them -.-

It goes a little beyond that.

Let's say you have an opinion. And your opinion is that you really like chocolate.

I dislike chocolate, but really enjoy vanilla.

I could come to the forum and say "Hold on now, old chap. I see you like chocolate, but have you considered these flaws? And please, be patient while I express to you the merits of vanilla!" That's a reasonable divergence of opinion. It's healthy. It's good to have your opinions challenged. This kind of agreeable disagreement occurs in about 1% of forum posts.

The alternative, which occurs in about 99% of forum posts, is where I storm your thread, call you a chocolate fanboy, completely exaggerate and overstate every imaginable problem with chocolate, and then spend the next 5-10 pages of the thread arguing past you by loudly shouting down every single thing you say.

It's really just run of the mill attitude polarization, although it's kind of amusing watching it seep into something that should be emotionally neutral, like video game discussions. You expect it in the politics and religion forum, but it's really gotten to the point where you can't discuss anything without it turning into an argumentative screaming match by the 2nd page. People just love a fight.

Fuck Vanilla. Chocolate for life.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

It's not that bad.

Most of the actual nastiness is being generated by a handful of individuals. (No prizes for guessing who.)

The rest is just disappointment and bitterness.

I almost (note, almost) wish the game had been entirely bad from beginning to end. Instead we got a fantastic game that waits until the last ten bloody minutes to shit itself inside out and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Sshhh. If you speak of him, he shall appea--Ahh damnit, too late. He is already here and raging like a crazy person.

 

[savageoblivi0n]

To be fair, it just being carried on by a select few.

And it comes down to the age old thing of "opinions". People just cant deal with others who disagree with them -.-


We should be talking about the new silent hill now. Is it going back on track?

I picked up Downpour day 1 and so far aside from a brief lag here and there I think it's a great game, and definitely a step back in the right direction..not perfect, but hey what can be?

Good to hear. I havnt had the chance to buy it/ play it yet but i thought it looked quite good. Despite some very negative reviews. Hopefully the freezes will be patched, and i can deal with the combat since it was never about that anyway. The only thing that looks a bit disappointing is the generic enemies, they look too, human.

I can agree with the enemies looking a bit human, but trust me they still have the ability to screw with your head nicely..I've almost given my room a couple nice skylights being caught off-guard..And really the only negative critic review I've seen was IGN..and..well....*ahem* yeah...
Also most of the negative user reviews have centered on the minor framerate issues (which TBH maybe some people are experiencing worse than me, I dunno), or they dislike the major mechanic changes because it's different than what a SH fan is used to, which I can understand, but at least the dev is trying new things.

(Plus Daniel Licht's soundtrack is amazing and fits perfectly)

 

[Tony2077]

All this talk of fanboys really grinds my gears.

Is it against the law to enjoy a game these days?

guess so from all the backlash people are getting. i recall the good old day when you could play something and not be judged for it

 

[daveman247]

snip

S ounds good to me Will have to get once im done with the old backlog (and the hd collection).

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

This is, without a doubt, the silliest thread I've ever seen. The "controversy" has now shifted from this:

A: Hey guys, does ME3's ending suck or what?
B: Fuck yeah, it sucks! A lot!
C: But maybe it doesn't because of this stuff!
A+B: Shut the fuck up, yes it does. They should make a new one.
D: That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. It was bad, just get over i-
A+B: NEVER! You just don't respect a the rights of the consumer!
D: What. I don't even. What.
E: Hey guys, does ME3's ending suck or what?
EVERYONE ELSE: Oh, for fuck's sake.

To this:

A: Your reaction to the ending was stupider then mine!
B: No you!
A: No you!
B: No you!
C: Hey guys, does ME3's ending suck, or what?
EVERYONE ELSE: Oh, for fuck's sake.