And let's be completely honest building something great from scratch is hard and taking from a perceived privileged class is a lot easier and more satisfying from a cultural Marxists perspective.zerragonoss said:
What Would The Reaction To A Female Bond (007, that is) Be?
- Thread starter RJ 17
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I'd rather Bond stayed as Bond is now in the films, and if people really want a female super-spy, that something new is made instead to please them, without changing what already is.
But then again I haven't read the books.
But then again I haven't read the books.
Look at how much people lost their collective shit when Daniel Craig was chosen for the Bond role. Heaven forbid we have a short blond guy play James Bond. Now fast-forward to the present, and Daniel Craig has made the most successful Bond movies ever and is heralded by many to be the best Bond since Sean Connery.
I, personally, think its an intriguing idea, if nothing else. I kinda like the idea of a 'Bond man' in place of a 'Bond girl'. I don't see why the character traits would need to be changed, it could even be made more interesting if the female Bond was a bi-sexual, lesbian, trans, what have you. Hell, the current Bond even teasingly hinted he's switch-hit before in the movie 'Skyfall'.
Maybe after Craig's stint as James Bond is through, its an idea people will be a little more open to. I see nothing wrong with it as long as its well-written, and we don't fall into the trope of 'I'm tough; but I still need a MAN to bail my ass outta deep shit.' The new Hitman movie came dangerously close to falling into the trope, but mercifully steered clear of it.
I, personally, think its an intriguing idea, if nothing else. I kinda like the idea of a 'Bond man' in place of a 'Bond girl'. I don't see why the character traits would need to be changed, it could even be made more interesting if the female Bond was a bi-sexual, lesbian, trans, what have you. Hell, the current Bond even teasingly hinted he's switch-hit before in the movie 'Skyfall'.
Maybe after Craig's stint as James Bond is through, its an idea people will be a little more open to. I see nothing wrong with it as long as its well-written, and we don't fall into the trope of 'I'm tough; but I still need a MAN to bail my ass outta deep shit.' The new Hitman movie came dangerously close to falling into the trope, but mercifully steered clear of it.
I dont know... I cant see any problem with it (ie, "why not"), although Im not sure whether the power fantasy would work as well for me personally - I have no idea whether a woman seducing a bunch of men would have the same impression as a man seducing a bunch of women, to me as a man.
And thats fine too, it doesnt need to appeal to me. Im curious though whether it does appeal to other people as much as the male Bond, though. Some people will love it, of course, but are there as many women wanting to see a woman blow shit up and get all the boys as there are guys wanting to see a man blow shit up and get all the girls?
Theres not a lot of point changing the character unless either the new character also appeals to the same audience, or the new character appeals to a new audience of comparable size.
For me personally if I were to watch a female-lead spy movie I would rather it be a little more intelligent and well written than the stereotypical Bond. If you make Bond an intelligent film and well written character thats a bigger change than swapping the gender.
And thats fine too, it doesnt need to appeal to me. Im curious though whether it does appeal to other people as much as the male Bond, though. Some people will love it, of course, but are there as many women wanting to see a woman blow shit up and get all the boys as there are guys wanting to see a man blow shit up and get all the girls?
Theres not a lot of point changing the character unless either the new character also appeals to the same audience, or the new character appeals to a new audience of comparable size.
For me personally if I were to watch a female-lead spy movie I would rather it be a little more intelligent and well written than the stereotypical Bond. If you make Bond an intelligent film and well written character thats a bigger change than swapping the gender.
What would be the point?
Seriously, this idea falls soundly into the grounds of "Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should." The women I've known who enjoy Bond movies aren't looking for this, and I'm pretty sure the men aren't either.
You can do female secret agents, either straight (Salt) or parody (Spy), but tying to do a female James Bond specifically is likely either going to come off as a pompous genre deconstruction or a deliberate attempt to lecture the audience on their suppositions without any chance for said audience to respond; in either case, they're going to feel like the creators are deliberately, aggressively, and hostilely wasting their time in an extremely conceited and self-serving manner.
It might make for an interesting class discussion. But it would make for a tedious movie.
Seriously, this idea falls soundly into the grounds of "Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should." The women I've known who enjoy Bond movies aren't looking for this, and I'm pretty sure the men aren't either.
You can do female secret agents, either straight (Salt) or parody (Spy), but tying to do a female James Bond specifically is likely either going to come off as a pompous genre deconstruction or a deliberate attempt to lecture the audience on their suppositions without any chance for said audience to respond; in either case, they're going to feel like the creators are deliberately, aggressively, and hostilely wasting their time in an extremely conceited and self-serving manner.
It might make for an interesting class discussion. But it would make for a tedious movie.
Although there are obviously problems a lot of time with the reception of female lead movies, I suspect in that particular case its more to do with the fact that Carano was an MMA fighter first, moving into acting, rather than an actor moving into action and martial arts as has been the case with most modern western action heros. John Cena had a similar attempt at getting into action movies with similar poor results.bartholen said:
It can happen, but it seems to be a much harder ask to get people to those kind of movies. The Rock spent a long time earning his way in with B movies and dodgy action comedies too before he really made it, even despite his first role coming in an established series (The Mummy).
Yes, and the whole point of my response was that this sort of thing cut both ways, I would be put off by both James Bond being recast as a women and Joanna Dark being recast as a man, this isn't a gendered issue.Nazulu said:
That's not entirely true. When adjusted for inflation Skyfall does still come out on top, but appart from it Connery and Moore dominate the top half of the financially successful, and speaking of the critically is hard given how all seem to almost strive at reaching the same overall level of quality as spy fiction, weather it be the camp Bond movies which define the character or the serious ones with Craig. Personally I don't have a problem with him as an actor, but I do have a problem with the new movies taking themselves seriously and that despite having actors reprising their roles from before the Craid-era we're somehow supposed to believe that these new ones are in a different canon then the old ones (I think people forget that during the Brosnan-era the theory of Bond was a code name and each actor was a different person using it was treated as canon by the studio, something I actually liked seeing).Illesdan said:
OT: I have to agree with the sentiment stated by others of "You can do it, but should you do it" with the answer being 'no', as well as stating that instead of taking a character which has ingrained itself into Anglo pulp-culture and changing them just make your own damn one instead. It isn't that hard for a good character who is new to make waves with their target audience. Harley Quinn was created in the 90s, Phil Coulson was created in 2008, yet both are some of the most well known and iconic comic book characters in fiction (despite both actually being created for television and only moved to comics after the fact).
We knew the world would not be the same.RJ 17 said:
A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita; Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and, to impress him, takes on his multi-armed form and says, "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
Lukewarm?Nathaniel Grey said:
Considering how the fanbase reacted when Daniel Craig was cast as 007, I think lukewarm is far from the reaction I'd expect.
More likely the fanbase would go apeshit and burn United Artists to the ground.
Depends on the execution. I'd like to see a swauve lass being charming and fucking a neverending swarm of handsome gents. But while there's no such thing as a bad idea, there are a lot of bad executions.
That and it could be the most misogynistic thing in the world with how badly it botches the idea, and some people would still call it PC gone mad.
That and it could be the most misogynistic thing in the world with how badly it botches the idea, and some people would still call it PC gone mad.
I'd have to go watch it again but wasn't the female character (Lancelot?) in the Kingsmen a pretty good example of a potential James Bond-esque female spy? TBH, I don't know what I'd think about the idea until I actually saw it. ATM, I think it would be a terrible idea because Bond is such a set iconic character as he is that changing anything major is tantamount to "HERESY!" I think I'd rather see something new, but considering Hollywood's track record my faith in any good representation (of a female Bond-eque character) is... pretty low - with the lack of backstory and world to build on her too people would be kind of leery to watch I guess as well. Someone mentioned Joanna Dark before, have to say what I vaguely remember about that game was pretty awesome - dunno how that would translate to the big screen though (although offhand, mentally superimposing Scarlet Johansen, seems to fit). I'd love to see that laptop gun make an appearance though... god that thing was brilliant and trollish.
I think the reaction with most noice would be the same sort that reacted to Torch (that's his name? The "Flame-ON" on guy from Fantastic4?) being black. Then a good deal of people would be thinking "this might be interesting" and wait for the movie to come out, go see it, and then decide if it did matter.
I mean Bond is just another spy-movie (often) so what difference the genderswap would really have I don't see. Maybe someone with more IQ could tell me that...
I mean Bond is just another spy-movie (often) so what difference the genderswap would really have I don't see. Maybe someone with more IQ could tell me that...
These always sound like decent ideas on paper, but I'm not really for it in practice. If they just have a female Bond and that's the only difference, no change of character or personality traits then it's just been done for the sake of it, which is never a good reason to change something. But if they made Bond a woman and did change personality traits about the character then it's not really Bond, and In my opinion they'd have been better off creating an original character.
Thing is, whether you change the character or not, they're going to have to appear in a film at some point or other. If the character works and the film is awesome then it won't need to call itself James Bond to get by. If it doesn't it'll likely make money, but be using the brand as a crutch for an idea that's not working.
A character that may have more success with this sort of thing is The Doctor, his character and personality traits drastically change with each regeneration. The surviving characteristics can be applicable to many protagonists. While the Doctor does display some clearly male personality traits, he's more malleable to this sort of thing. It's literally part of his character that he can change his body, and they threw in that Timelords can change gender when they regenerate. Once again though, I'd rather see a new character created instead of changing an existing one. Entertainment is quite reliant on a few big names and franchises at the moment, and I'd like to see new stuff be tried.
Thing is, whether you change the character or not, they're going to have to appear in a film at some point or other. If the character works and the film is awesome then it won't need to call itself James Bond to get by. If it doesn't it'll likely make money, but be using the brand as a crutch for an idea that's not working.
A character that may have more success with this sort of thing is The Doctor, his character and personality traits drastically change with each regeneration. The surviving characteristics can be applicable to many protagonists. While the Doctor does display some clearly male personality traits, he's more malleable to this sort of thing. It's literally part of his character that he can change his body, and they threw in that Timelords can change gender when they regenerate. Once again though, I'd rather see a new character created instead of changing an existing one. Entertainment is quite reliant on a few big names and franchises at the moment, and I'd like to see new stuff be tried.
A female James Bond would be retarded, if they used her as such. Another female 00 agent within that universe would be a cool spin-off though. As to whether she should be a massive slut? Eh, I can't say I'm that fond of James Bond's character in the first place personally. But there's nothing really wrong with the femme fatale kind of character. And female promiscuity is not automatically worse than male promiscuity. I just don't think it is particularly desirable in either case.
James Bond as a character is James Bond, a female wouldn't work.
That is to say if they did a spin-off involving another MI5 agent who was a woman then it'll be fine and dandy. Gender switching the actual James Bond character would be pointless and it would just end up being another fucked up franchise.
The all female Ghostbusters reboot will be OK as the Ghostbusters name doesn't have any gender requirements, I do hope that the surviving originals get a cameo though.
That is to say if they did a spin-off involving another MI5 agent who was a woman then it'll be fine and dandy. Gender switching the actual James Bond character would be pointless and it would just end up being another fucked up franchise.
The all female Ghostbusters reboot will be OK as the Ghostbusters name doesn't have any gender requirements, I do hope that the surviving originals get a cameo though.