Well, I have the feeling that if you made a female Bond who acts like James Bond, a big load of feminists (the extreme kind) might roll up and call her a slut because of all the sexual encounters Bond goes through throughout his movies.
What Would The Reaction To A Female Bond (007, that is) Be?
- Thread starter RJ 17
- Start date
A few people would complain about supposed abuse of the source material, a few other people would call those people misogynists and then the entire discussion would be drowned out beneath a shit-slinging fest between the most zealous of both of those groups.
I wouldn't be fussed, largely because I already consider Skyfall's revelation that Bond is actually Scottish to be high treason.
I wouldn't be fussed, largely because I already consider Skyfall's revelation that Bond is actually Scottish to be high treason.
No, this gender swapping BS should be limited to Deviant Art. James Bond is an established character, the whole "theory" that James Bond is a code name was shot to hell in Skyfall.
Honestly this gender swapping it the very definition of female tokenism, women, including fictional characters should stand or fall by their own merits, not ride on the coat tails of men and hell feminism keeps telling me that they can, so how about you try to create a character that earns her spot and stop trying to coopt stuff that men create.
Honestly this gender swapping it the very definition of female tokenism, women, including fictional characters should stand or fall by their own merits, not ride on the coat tails of men and hell feminism keeps telling me that they can, so how about you try to create a character that earns her spot and stop trying to coopt stuff that men create.
Thank you Adam Jensen you beautiful SOB, and remember the Lara Croft was a for all practical purpose a female Indiana Jones.Adam Jensen said:
Ian Flemming named James Bond after an American author who wrote a book on bird watching and made him a Scot in the books due to his love of Sean Connery's performance in DR. No.Dragonlayer said:
Interesting, I didn't know that. Just so it's clear, I was being tongue-in-cheek about the treason comment; I really enjoyed Skyfall and Daniel Craig's incarnation of Bond.Brown_Coat117 said:
It would be greatly mixed, that's for sure.
Me, I never cared for the franchise, and I will always say that they should just make a new a franchise instead on treading on old shit. Hell, I would rather see a Perfect Dark film than a new James Bond one.
Me, I never cared for the franchise, and I will always say that they should just make a new a franchise instead on treading on old shit. Hell, I would rather see a Perfect Dark film than a new James Bond one.
Not sure that I can agree given the crap that is still video game movies, and I think that continuing franchises are fine as long as they keep the quality up. If a Perfect Dark movie did come out I damn well would be pissed if they cast for a man for the lead in place of a woman, see it cuts both ways. While we're on the subject on Perfect Dark remember that it was originally a spiritual sequel to GoldenEye 007 that in the eyes of many, myself included, surpassed the original.Nazulu said:
And let's be completely honest building something great from scratch is hard and taking from a perceived privileged class is a lot easier and more satisfying from a cultural Marxists perspective.zerragonoss said:
I'd rather Bond stayed as Bond is now in the films, and if people really want a female super-spy, that something new is made instead to please them, without changing what already is.
But then again I haven't read the books.
But then again I haven't read the books.
Look at how much people lost their collective shit when Daniel Craig was chosen for the Bond role. Heaven forbid we have a short blond guy play James Bond. Now fast-forward to the present, and Daniel Craig has made the most successful Bond movies ever and is heralded by many to be the best Bond since Sean Connery.
I, personally, think its an intriguing idea, if nothing else. I kinda like the idea of a 'Bond man' in place of a 'Bond girl'. I don't see why the character traits would need to be changed, it could even be made more interesting if the female Bond was a bi-sexual, lesbian, trans, what have you. Hell, the current Bond even teasingly hinted he's switch-hit before in the movie 'Skyfall'.
Maybe after Craig's stint as James Bond is through, its an idea people will be a little more open to. I see nothing wrong with it as long as its well-written, and we don't fall into the trope of 'I'm tough; but I still need a MAN to bail my ass outta deep shit.' The new Hitman movie came dangerously close to falling into the trope, but mercifully steered clear of it.
I, personally, think its an intriguing idea, if nothing else. I kinda like the idea of a 'Bond man' in place of a 'Bond girl'. I don't see why the character traits would need to be changed, it could even be made more interesting if the female Bond was a bi-sexual, lesbian, trans, what have you. Hell, the current Bond even teasingly hinted he's switch-hit before in the movie 'Skyfall'.
Maybe after Craig's stint as James Bond is through, its an idea people will be a little more open to. I see nothing wrong with it as long as its well-written, and we don't fall into the trope of 'I'm tough; but I still need a MAN to bail my ass outta deep shit.' The new Hitman movie came dangerously close to falling into the trope, but mercifully steered clear of it.
I dont know... I cant see any problem with it (ie, "why not"), although Im not sure whether the power fantasy would work as well for me personally - I have no idea whether a woman seducing a bunch of men would have the same impression as a man seducing a bunch of women, to me as a man.
And thats fine too, it doesnt need to appeal to me. Im curious though whether it does appeal to other people as much as the male Bond, though. Some people will love it, of course, but are there as many women wanting to see a woman blow shit up and get all the boys as there are guys wanting to see a man blow shit up and get all the girls?
Theres not a lot of point changing the character unless either the new character also appeals to the same audience, or the new character appeals to a new audience of comparable size.
For me personally if I were to watch a female-lead spy movie I would rather it be a little more intelligent and well written than the stereotypical Bond. If you make Bond an intelligent film and well written character thats a bigger change than swapping the gender.
And thats fine too, it doesnt need to appeal to me. Im curious though whether it does appeal to other people as much as the male Bond, though. Some people will love it, of course, but are there as many women wanting to see a woman blow shit up and get all the boys as there are guys wanting to see a man blow shit up and get all the girls?
Theres not a lot of point changing the character unless either the new character also appeals to the same audience, or the new character appeals to a new audience of comparable size.
For me personally if I were to watch a female-lead spy movie I would rather it be a little more intelligent and well written than the stereotypical Bond. If you make Bond an intelligent film and well written character thats a bigger change than swapping the gender.
What would be the point?
Seriously, this idea falls soundly into the grounds of "Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should." The women I've known who enjoy Bond movies aren't looking for this, and I'm pretty sure the men aren't either.
You can do female secret agents, either straight (Salt) or parody (Spy), but tying to do a female James Bond specifically is likely either going to come off as a pompous genre deconstruction or a deliberate attempt to lecture the audience on their suppositions without any chance for said audience to respond; in either case, they're going to feel like the creators are deliberately, aggressively, and hostilely wasting their time in an extremely conceited and self-serving manner.
It might make for an interesting class discussion. But it would make for a tedious movie.
Seriously, this idea falls soundly into the grounds of "Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should." The women I've known who enjoy Bond movies aren't looking for this, and I'm pretty sure the men aren't either.
You can do female secret agents, either straight (Salt) or parody (Spy), but tying to do a female James Bond specifically is likely either going to come off as a pompous genre deconstruction or a deliberate attempt to lecture the audience on their suppositions without any chance for said audience to respond; in either case, they're going to feel like the creators are deliberately, aggressively, and hostilely wasting their time in an extremely conceited and self-serving manner.
It might make for an interesting class discussion. But it would make for a tedious movie.
Although there are obviously problems a lot of time with the reception of female lead movies, I suspect in that particular case its more to do with the fact that Carano was an MMA fighter first, moving into acting, rather than an actor moving into action and martial arts as has been the case with most modern western action heros. John Cena had a similar attempt at getting into action movies with similar poor results.bartholen said:
It can happen, but it seems to be a much harder ask to get people to those kind of movies. The Rock spent a long time earning his way in with B movies and dodgy action comedies too before he really made it, even despite his first role coming in an established series (The Mummy).
Yes, and the whole point of my response was that this sort of thing cut both ways, I would be put off by both James Bond being recast as a women and Joanna Dark being recast as a man, this isn't a gendered issue.Nazulu said:
That's not entirely true. When adjusted for inflation Skyfall does still come out on top, but appart from it Connery and Moore dominate the top half of the financially successful, and speaking of the critically is hard given how all seem to almost strive at reaching the same overall level of quality as spy fiction, weather it be the camp Bond movies which define the character or the serious ones with Craig. Personally I don't have a problem with him as an actor, but I do have a problem with the new movies taking themselves seriously and that despite having actors reprising their roles from before the Craid-era we're somehow supposed to believe that these new ones are in a different canon then the old ones (I think people forget that during the Brosnan-era the theory of Bond was a code name and each actor was a different person using it was treated as canon by the studio, something I actually liked seeing).Illesdan said:
OT: I have to agree with the sentiment stated by others of "You can do it, but should you do it" with the answer being 'no', as well as stating that instead of taking a character which has ingrained itself into Anglo pulp-culture and changing them just make your own damn one instead. It isn't that hard for a good character who is new to make waves with their target audience. Harley Quinn was created in the 90s, Phil Coulson was created in 2008, yet both are some of the most well known and iconic comic book characters in fiction (despite both actually being created for television and only moved to comics after the fact).