What would you want from a Dark Souls clone?

Saelune

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Supposedly there wont be any new Souls games anytime soon. Thats fine, but I still want some copycats, but I dont want them to suck, and maybe do somethings different and better. However, they likely dont need to be a carbon copy.

So I wonder what would you think a DS clone should and should not do? What common features of Dark Souls should be kept, and what should be culled? What new features or changes should be added?
 

Casual Shinji

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Don't we sort of have enough of these games now?

We got Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3, and Bloodborne, which most likely will get a sequel of it's own. Then there's Nioh coming out early next year.

I think we're good Souls wise, wouldn't you say?
 

Saelune

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Casual Shinji said:
Don't we sort of have enough of these games now?

We got Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3, and Bloodborne, which most likely will get a sequel of it's own. Then there's Nioh coming out early next year.

I think we're good Souls wise, wouldn't you say?
Only one of those isnt a "Souls" game. And I just mean in general. Its a style of game Id like to see continued years on from now, even if its not by FromSoft. Plus they are games that make me want more when I finish one. Im currently going through Dark Souls 2 (having a shit time of it, but then I can move on to 3 when Im done). When I finished 1, even after getting t0 NG++ and getting all achievements, I wanted to keep playing, but didnt want to just run through the same stuff again.

Plus I personally love Dynasty Warriors as well, so Im not exactly against a constant stream of a type of game.
 

Casual Shinji

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Saelune said:
Casual Shinji said:
Don't we sort of have enough of these games now?

We got Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3, and Bloodborne, which most likely will get a sequel of it's own. Then there's Nioh coming out early next year.

I think we're good Souls wise, wouldn't you say?
Only one of those isnt a "Souls" game. And I just mean in general. Its a style of game Id like to see continued years on from now, even if its not by FromSoft. Plus they are games that make me want more when I finish one. Im currently going through Dark Souls 2 (having a shit time of it, but then I can move on to 3 when Im done). When I finished 1, even after getting t0 NG++ and getting all achievements, I wanted to keep playing, but didnt want to just run through the same stuff again.
Wait, which one isn't a Souls game? Bloodborne is DS in Victorian times, and Nioh is practically DS in Japan with Geralt of Rivia.
 

Saelune

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Casual Shinji said:
Saelune said:
Casual Shinji said:
Don't we sort of have enough of these games now?

We got Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3, and Bloodborne, which most likely will get a sequel of it's own. Then there's Nioh coming out early next year.

I think we're good Souls wise, wouldn't you say?
Only one of those isnt a "Souls" game. And I just mean in general. Its a style of game Id like to see continued years on from now, even if its not by FromSoft. Plus they are games that make me want more when I finish one. Im currently going through Dark Souls 2 (having a shit time of it, but then I can move on to 3 when Im done). When I finished 1, even after getting t0 NG++ and getting all achievements, I wanted to keep playing, but didnt want to just run through the same stuff again.
Wait, which one isn't a Souls game? Bloodborne is DS in Victorian times, and Nioh is practically DS in Japan with Geralt of Rivia.
"Souls" generally includes Bloodborne, which is also made by FromSoft. Its kind of more a Souls game than Dark Souls 2 is, considering Miyazaki was director on it (and all other Souls games sans 2).

Edit: 5000th post :D
 

Saelune

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inu-kun said:
Should: Difficulty, good gameplay and good level design.

Shouldn't: Can't really think about things that can be removed or altered without being overspecific. New settings could be cool, I'd love a Warhammer 40k Dark Souls only from the design potential. Say that a freak warp effect rewinds time when you die and as a guardsman/astrates you get all the cool toys while exploring a hive city, you can even encorporate warp corruption for endings.
Feel free to be overspecific. Thats kind of the point of the topic. There are so many "small" changes in Dark Souls 2 from 1 that are almost as infuriating as the big changes. So, even seemingly small things can have a big impact.

Im not too knowledgeable about Warhammer 40k, but it does look like something that could really work with the Souls style gameplay.
 

Here Comes Tomorrow

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I'd consider BB a Souls. They're pretty similar outside of combat.

Personally I like the "less-is-more" style of story telling. That and the level design.

Too many games are either too linear or too open, there aren't that many that let you wander about and get lost.
 

Here Comes Tomorrow

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Saelune said:
inu-kun said:
I'd love a Warhammer 40k Dark Souls only from the design potential. Say that a freak warp effect rewinds time when you die and as a guardsman/astrates you get all the cool toys while exploring a hive city, you can even encorporate warp corruption for endings.
Things I never knew I wanted. Though I'd prefer Fantasy. Give me Bloodborne set in Mordheim and I would give you everything I owned.
 

sageoftruth

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I'd want a very interesting setting that stands out from the Dark Souls series, kind of like Bloodborne, or more recently, Nioh.
I would also like some quality level design, with an incentive to explore and shortcuts you can create to cut down on re-treading old ground, kind of like what Dark Souls did with ladders, locked doors, and lifts.
Couple that with interesting enemies and a hands-off tutorial and I'd be pretty impressed.
Most importantly however, if someone wants to make a Dark Souls clone, they should not think that being hard is the most important thing. Difficulty helps enforce that kind of atmosphere, but it is not what carried Dark Souls in my opinion.
 

Level 7 Dragon

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Atmosphere, something that gets lost on many clones. The feeling of being a tiny being in a vast, dead kingdom is difficult to replicate, though a few have done it. Darkmaus comes to mind.
 

Aerosteam

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Ironically, I want some originality.

Dark Souls is dark fantasy (for the most part). We got Lords of the Fallen, a souls-like that's also dark fantasy but with Warcraft shoulders (that's what I gathered, I haven't played the game). Because of that, the game pretty much boils down to "Dark Souls but not as good". If Lords of the Fallen was maybe sci-fi or alt-history it could've stood on its own feet at least somewhat.

I like what I'm seeing with Ni-oh, seems like the correct approach to the genre Demon's Souls created. That being said, a sci-fi Souls-like with giant robots and beam swords is what I specifically want.
 

Zhukov

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Satisfying melee animation.

If I hit someone with a mace, I want to see the mace fucking hit them. I don't want to wave the mace in their general direction and see their health bar go down a bit.

I've only ever seen one game do this right.
 

Kerg3927

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A Souls-like game in a space or alien world setting with guns would be cool. The main thing is that it have challenging difficulty and smart and intricate but CONFINED maps.

In fact, I wish From was making the new Mass Effect instead of Bioware, which, like everyone else, seems to have inexplicably shifted its focus to Skyrim-style massive open world w/ busywork quests. I am playing through the Dark Souls trilogy for the first time right now (almost done with 2... 3 is next), and man, it is such a breath of fresh air after Dragon Age: Inquisition and Witcher 3.
 

Saelune

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Ezekiel said:
Keep the dense, intricate, interconnected open world and the rewarding, punishing progression.

Tell the (minimalist) story more through the environments and actual experiences, instead of relying on boring monologues and lazy item descriptions that the character has no way of learning about. No cutscenes. Fuck cutscenes. I'm sick of them. I have movies for that. Unless they're fun to watch, like in Metal Gear Solid, your game probably doesn't need them.

Drop the medieval setting. I wouldn't mind a distant medieval-like future, with futuristic and old weaponry and remnants of civilization in the hostile natural world. There should be beasts as well as aging mechanical enemies, and of course human opponents. Just inspire it from the manga Nausicaa.

I'm sick of mute user created characters. Give me one or two characters to choose from, who emote and speak once in a while. Characters who I can care about as they grow. Who have a very limited number of armors and weapons to choose from, that visually degrade through the course of the adventure.

I don't wanna take care of a thousand different worthless items in tedious menus. Make it more an action-adventure.

I want to be able to turn the camera independently of the targeting system. I don't want the camera angle to change when I target something and I don't want to be looking down at the smaller foe or the giant enemy's feet. I need to be able to see. If you're gonna do really big enemy's, pull the camera back as necessary.

Actually, just drop the control scheme. I want one more versatile.

A less binary damage system. A system in which you have to conserve your HP over more hits, rather than a system in which two hits kill you and constant healing is required. Even that out with fewer healing items.

Remove or mitigate the combat roll. I want to be able to dash and sprint sideways and backwards, instantly. Rolling is a dumb thing to do, mostly.

A proper stance when targeting enemies or when in their immediate vicinity. In Dark Souls, the character always holds the weapon down at their side or over their shoulder, making it take longer to hit the opponent. They should hold the weapon in a position from which they can quickly strike or parry.

No more item cycling. It's awful. So many times, I've cycled past the one I needed or picked the wrong one. Just assign actions or menus to the D-pad.

A dedicated shove/kick button. I've often done so by accident or failed to do it when I wanted. It's so pointlessly complicated, I rarely use it.

Night and day and weather cycles. When you rest at a bonfire or whatever the equivalent is, time passes more quickly. How much times passes would depend on how badly you were hurt.

More realistic looking characters. I want my body to be proportional and my face to look more human. They should look at photos of people when they design the faces or pick an attractive art style. I want them to emote more and to rotate their heads with the camera. The NPCs as well. NPCs should have lip sync and be able to move around their environments.

Drop all the giant weapons. I've never liked them. I wanna use something a person can wield.

Better AI. Scratch that. Any AI. Dark Souls was always terrible at this. Dynamic behaviors and random enemy locations and patrols. This is why I played so much L4D and one of the reasons I liked Alien: Isolation. The gameplay is never the same. It keeps you on your toes. I like that stuff.

Ultra-realistic gore.

Drop the multiplayer. It hurts the atmosphere and is full of issues. Focus on making a stronger single player.
I like maybe 80% of what you said.

I like the co-op side of Dark Souls, not the PvP. I know alot of people love the PvP, but maybe seperate it? Invasions arent fun if you dont want them and are trying to progress. But I like having a buddy to help me.

I still want to "create" my character, but I wouldnt mind like, a voice. One that reacts and responds to things.

Changing time and weather would be neat. Especially if it maybe effects gameplay. Maybe night time is more dangerous, or rain makes things work differently. (More slippery perhaps?)

I default to the claymore, so I kind of like giant weapons. Plus Souls is a japanese series, and Japan likes their giant weapons. Though Bloodborne mostly forsook giant weapons and was fine. I used the whipcane.

There is a real lack of gore in all these M rated medival fantasy games. I wish Elder Scrolls would add it too. I dont need Tarantino level splatter, but something would be nice. The blood splatter in Duke Nukem 3D certainly made it more fun. (And despite the graphical quality, the only game I ever seen to make such great use of blood, such as leaving dripping blood behind enemies you shotgun blast, or pools that you leave footprings through)

As for alot of your combat stuff, Id have to see it/try it before I could say for certain either way. Ultimatly though, Id be down to try your ideal version of a "Souls" game.
 

Kerg3927

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Ezekiel said:
Night and day and weather cycles.
Weather is cool. Just don't overdo it like Witcher 3, in which it rained at least half the time. After a while, walking around in the rain in a darkly lit dull atmosphere gets old. By midway through the game, every time it rained, I would just meditate until it stopped so I didn't have to play in it.
 

Fox12

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I want something that the Souls games themselves haven't given us in a long time. Tight, interconnected worlds and diverse character builds. Subtle storytelling is an absolute must.

Casual Shinji said:
Don't we sort of have enough of these games now?

We got Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3, and Bloodborne, which most likely will get a sequel of it's own. Then there's Nioh coming out early next year.

I think we're good Souls wise, wouldn't you say?
The answer to that question is always no
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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Umm, a two-dimensional, well drawn cartoony aesthetic, over-simplification of its' obscure lore, a confusing upgrade tree, anti-gravity mechanics, minimalist start screen, a barely veiled homage to dark souls...yeah, nobody's done that before yet, where's my notepad?

Ok, but moving on, I think in a manifestation of an alien subconscious. But more solidified than the bullshit of The Evil Within tropes. Perhaps the main part of the mystery lies in what is causing the land to form, what is the alien, why is it thinking these malformations, what is your personal connection to the place, alien and how in hell did you get there? Throw in some sci-fi landscapes, weapons, armours and all sorts...just go nuts. Put the fear of cthulhuian technology into the player as the madness they descend into cannot even be identified and contained.
 

Casual Shinji

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Fox12 said:
Casual Shinji said:
Don't we sort of have enough of these games now?

We got Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Dark Souls 2, Dark Souls 3, and Bloodborne, which most likely will get a sequel of it's own. Then there's Nioh coming out early next year.

I think we're good Souls wise, wouldn't you say?
The answer to that question is always no
I don't know man. After DS3 I felt rather Soul'd out.

I'm a bit tired of the formula.