What's keeping the West from making DOAX style games?

[Winnosh]

Simple. The demand for it isn't there. Games like that just don't sell well in the West.

 

[Achelexus]

Game developers in western countries are still very scared of the sort of hate mob backlash that games like this tend to create, there are a ton of people with backwards views that tend to get offended by this sort of stuff.

I mean, it's changing slowly, but it will be a long time until it gets on the level of japanese game developers, who feel free to actually be creative and have no fear of backlash.

 

[Gamerpalooza]

I kind of re-read the thread and found that it absolutely does not answer the question, why cannot Blizzard do an Overwatch Beach spin-off, where everyone's running around in hula skirts blasting each other with super soakers.

Keep in mind that in the Dead or Alive universe Zack bought his private island in the end of DoA3 which allowed for DoAX which he did under the pretense of it being the next island that the tournament will be held. The island was destroyed but he made money in DoA 4 and either repaired the island or bought a new one.

Sure Blizzard can easily pull off something like this since they can make a game like Heroes of the Storm but they wont touch this because they are PC about it which was proven to be the case when their political position was brought into question and they mentioned gamergate in one of their panels. Even though that doesn't really stops them taking the sexy outfit route for DLC in both HotS and Overwatch. If they need a plot they can easily concoct one.

Hell they can even break the mold by bringing males, "animals"?, and pets into the mix.

So to answer your question bluntly, Blizzard wont touch that kind of spin-off because of their political leanings. It's too radical of an idea for their company to uphold and defend.

 

[asinann]

Despite the facts being in people's faces a large percentage of the people still think video games are for kids. Add in several hundred years of prudishness brought on by religion and it makes anything to do with the boob (even breast feeding)evil.

 

[Dizchu]

It's probably because a lot of the stuff in Japan like the ecchi harem genre and bouncing titty games appeals to a very adolescent perception of sexuality. You know, the kind that 15 year-old boys would experience. Like catching a glimpse of a classmate's underwear or accidentally touching their boobs or thighs and getting super flustered about it. In the west we aren't somehow "more prudish" about sex, we just get extremely uncomfortable when we associate sexuality with being a minor. There is always constant hysteria about pedophiles and teen sex, though the latter may be a problem as it results in less efficient sex education and more teen pregnancy.

The kind of sexuality displayed in these kinds of games is generally treated as a joke here, like in music videos such as Stacey's Mom by Fountains of Wayne. If we want sexual content, we want actual sexual content. Either to service some sort of story or to excite us (sometimes both). When it does excite us, we want it to cater to our interests. The appeal of stuff like Dead or Alive is simultaneously too narrow and too broad, as it is too narrow to make much money and too broad to specifically appeal to anything but the most "general" sexual tastes.

Unfortunately that's just how things work in Japan, so you get dozens of awful ecchi shows that try to appeal specifically to "otakus" by having bumbling idiot protagonists (almost always male teenagers) who accidentally draw the attention of a bunch of attractive girls. I love me some anime tiddy but it's because these things try too desperately to appeal to a stereotype more than a demographic that I always feel like it's pandering instead of legitimately engaging.

 

[ManutheBloodedge]

I would say the reason why the west doesn't produce such games is largely business-related, but not in an obvious way.
DOAX is a different type of game, even if you ignore the content altogether. It has smaller production values, and it is not expected to make a lot of money by the developer, just enough money.
This kind of production is common for japanese developers and indies, but has all but vanished in Americas Triple-A market. The big companies only develop huge games, every game has to be big, the next great franchise, and make massive numbers.

Spoiler: Jim Sterling made a video where he describes this pretty good.

These type of "smaller expense, smaller revenue" games are exceedingly rare in the American Triple-A market, and games like DOAX have a fanbase, but are not marketable for as much demographics as possible. I think this is a large point why no company like Rockstar is making games like DOAX. If you look at the indies, you have your fair share of western ecchi and porno titles.

And now for something completely different.

That may be what you assume and believe, but it isn't what I actually said. You're clear on that at least, right?

Yes. But since you have never met such people you have no way of knowing that this is not a case of circular logic, have you?

I'm going to slow-walk you through this, on the basis that it's the quickest way to help you understand this, and end your flow of baseless accusations.

I've met many people with "waifus" and massive VN collections, and they are... say it with me now... "Frustrated and lonely". What I'm yet to meet is the mythical pillow-fucker who isn't both of those things.

"Mythical pillow-fucker"? Might just be me, but that sounds glorious. I imagine an old monk in a mountain cave high above the clouds, surrounded by thousand of wankpillows and deeply complementing philosophical quandaries like "What is Waifu? What leads to Moe? How large can a Zettai Ryouki be? Which of my pillows shall I fuck next?" And there will be lone otakus pilgering up the mountain with their favorite pillow in hand... OK, definitly just me. Still hilarious.

Apart from that, I might just be your mythical pillow-fucker, despite never actually having fucked one. I don't really need or seek out physical contact with other humans, but I do like a good wank. I like fanservice, no matter if it is used in the erotic or comedic way, and I don't feel lonely (I have friends) and sure as hell not frustrated. Prostituion is legal in my country, so if I really wanted to sleep with a woman, I would just pay for it. I frankly do not understand the fuss the rest of the world is making about sex in general, but again, just me.

Sorry for boring you with that, I just couldn't pass up on the chance to apply for the title of "mythical rethorical pillow-fucker". Do tell me if I won, I want to make business cards.

 

[Lunar Templar]

A history of religious prudery, for starters.

while you COULD say something like this is the reason, it's not.

If I had to guess, because it doesn't sell. While the games generate controversy and discussion, they don't make money.

This is.

Why do you think they don't sell.

Because they are terrible games, soft core porn, for voyeurs basically, and that doesn't sell games, cause, ya know, people who buy games tend to want good game play to go along with it. Which tends to be why the DOA fighters don't do well ether, they just aren't good fighters.

so that 'puritan' malarkey doesn't really hold up, cause if they where good games, they would sell far better then they do, but they aren't so they don't.

Yet they sell splendidly in Japan. Wonder why.

I'm vaguely amused by several people in here saying "its not that the west has sexual hang-ups, its that they don't sell". Never occurred to you that they don't sell BECAUSE the west has sexual hang-ups?

hows it feel to be WRONG.
DoAX I
North America: 0.36m 61.1%
+ Europe: 0.08m 13.4%
+ Japan: 0.14m 23.0%
+ Rest of the World: 0.02m 2.5%
= Global 0.59m

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/482/dead-or-alive-xtreme-beach-volleyball/

DoAX II
North America: 0.15m 57.7%
+ Europe: 0.03m 11.0%
+ Japan: 0.06m 24.9%
+ Rest of the World: 0.02m 6.4%
= Global 0.26m
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/481/dead-or-alive-xtreme-2/

whats that?! the first 2 games didn't even sell 1 million copys world wide, AND North America OUT SOLD JAPAN.

yeah, we're done here.

Sit down, shut up, and stop lieing to people.

They're bad games, bad games don't sell. get over it.

 

[Einspanner]

The fear of the tiddy is strong in the west. Good Ol' Christian fundamentalism.

It's almost like you haven't read the thread....

A history of religious prudery, for starters.

while you COULD say something like this is the reason, it's not.

If I had to guess, because it doesn't sell. While the games generate controversy and discussion, they don't make money.

This is.

Why do you think they don't sell.

Because they are terrible games, soft core porn, for voyeurs basically, and that doesn't sell games, cause, ya know, people who buy games tend to want good game play to go along with it. Which tends to be why the DOA fighters don't do well ether, they just aren't good fighters.

so that 'puritan' malarkey doesn't really hold up, cause if they where good games, they would sell far better then they do, but they aren't so they don't.

Yet they sell splendidly in Japan. Wonder why.

I'm vaguely amused by several people in here saying "its not that the west has sexual hang-ups, its that they don't sell". Never occurred to you that they don't sell BECAUSE the west has sexual hang-ups?

hows it feel to be WRONG.
DoAX I
North America: 0.36m 61.1%
+ Europe: 0.08m 13.4%
+ Japan: 0.14m 23.0%
+ Rest of the World: 0.02m 2.5%
= Global 0.59m

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/482/dead-or-alive-xtreme-beach-volleyball/

DoAX II
North America: 0.15m 57.7%
+ Europe: 0.03m 11.0%
+ Japan: 0.06m 24.9%
+ Rest of the World: 0.02m 6.4%
= Global 0.26m
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/481/dead-or-alive-xtreme-2/

whats that?! the first 2 games didn't even sell 1 million copys world wide, AND North America OUT SOLD JAPAN.

yeah, we're done here.

Sit down, shut up, and stop lieing to people.

They're bad games, bad games don't sell. get over it.

Curious. The most common insult I've seen thrown around in this thread so far has been 'prudish.'

I really don't think the titty lovers are in a position to cry 'victim' here.

I can't point specific posts on the thread as that would warrant me a warning, however just in the first page there's someone saying those kind of games are nothing but porn and someone else implying the only people that play those games are lonely people that can't get real women. That sort of condescending attitude is what I'm reffering to when I say there's prejudice leveled at those kind of games and the people who play them.

Oh, please.

Out of curiosity, I checked.

Users blasting DOAX/'Titty Game' Enthusiast - 2
Users blasting US citizens as prudish/puritanical - 10
Users blasting companies that make titty games - 2
Users blasting people for thinking Huniepop/DOAX are titty games - 1
Users claiming I, specifically, am a subpar perv - 1

There's more too, you should give it a try! You might come away with a new perspective, uncomfortable as that might be for you.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Curious. The most common insult I've seen thrown around in this thread so far has been 'prudish.'

I really don't think the titty lovers are in a position to cry 'victim' here.

I can't point specific posts on the thread as that would warrant me a warning, however just in the first page there's someone saying those kind of games are nothing but porn and someone else implying the only people that play those games are lonely people that can't get real women. That sort of condescending attitude is what I'm reffering to when I say there's prejudice leveled at those kind of games and the people who play them.

Oh, please.

Out of curiosity, I checked.

Users blasting DOAX/'Titty Game' Enthusiast - 2
Users blasting US citizens as prudish/puritanical - 10
Users blasting companies that make titty games - 2
Users blasting people for thinking Huniepop/DOAX are titty games - 1
Users claiming I, specifically, am a subpar perv - 1

There's more too, you should give it a try! You might come away with a new perspective, uncomfortable as that might be for you.

...What? I'm struggling to discover how 'try more' is an appropriate response to what amounts to me taking a score count of thread posters. Do you want me to try reading more post? I assure you, I already did. That's how I took score.

 

[Einspanner]

Spoiler

Curious. The most common insult I've seen thrown around in this thread so far has been 'prudish.'

I really don't think the titty lovers are in a position to cry 'victim' here.

I can't point specific posts on the thread as that would warrant me a warning, however just in the first page there's someone saying those kind of games are nothing but porn and someone else implying the only people that play those games are lonely people that can't get real women. That sort of condescending attitude is what I'm reffering to when I say there's prejudice leveled at those kind of games and the people who play them.

Oh, please.

Out of curiosity, I checked.

Users blasting DOAX/'Titty Game' Enthusiast - 2
Users blasting US citizens as prudish/puritanical - 10
Users blasting companies that make titty games - 2
Users blasting people for thinking Huniepop/DOAX are titty games - 1
Users claiming I, specifically, am a subpar perv - 1

There's more too, you should give it a try! You might come away with a new perspective, uncomfortable as that might be for you.

...What? I'm struggling to discover how 'try more' is an appropriate response to what amounts to me taking a score count of thread posters. Do you want me to try reading more post? I assure you, I already did. That's how I took score.

Sorry, you misunderstood, that was directed at Charli, I was citing you.

 

[Lunar Templar]

-snip-

Oh you want to play the numbers game?

Please let us play the numbers game!


Population of North America: ~565,265,000

Population of Japan: ~127,110,000

Ratio of Populations (North America:Japan): ~4.44:1


DOAXI Sales figures ratio (North America:Japan): ~2.57:1

DOAXII Sales figures ratio (North America:Japan): ~2.5:1


What's that? The games sold higher in Japan relative to its population size than North America? And that you used the figures in a biased way and deceptive way (by leaving out any correction for the respective population sizes) to try to prove your point?

To quote yourself:
"yeah, we're done here.

Sit down, shut up, and stop lieing to people."

Also I've reported your post given how abusive you're being. And blocked you. Good day.


I'm done with this thread now. Its been a pleasant and interesting chat with some of you.

none of that means anything sorry to say ^^

more people doesn't mean more sales, all it means is more potential sales.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Curious. The most common insult I've seen thrown around in this thread so far has been 'prudish.'

I really don't think the titty lovers are in a position to cry 'victim' here.

I can't point specific posts on the thread as that would warrant me a warning, however just in the first page there's someone saying those kind of games are nothing but porn and someone else implying the only people that play those games are lonely people that can't get real women. That sort of condescending attitude is what I'm reffering to when I say there's prejudice leveled at those kind of games and the people who play them.

Oh, please.

Out of curiosity, I checked.

Users blasting DOAX/'Titty Game' Enthusiast - 2
Users blasting US citizens as prudish/puritanical - 10
Users blasting companies that make titty games - 2
Users blasting people for thinking Huniepop/DOAX are titty games - 1
Users claiming I, specifically, am a subpar perv - 1

There's more too, you should give it a try! You might come away with a new perspective, uncomfortable as that might be for you.

...What? I'm struggling to discover how 'try more' is an appropriate response to what amounts to me taking a score count of thread posters. Do you want me to try reading more post? I assure you, I already did. That's how I took score.

Sorry, you misunderstood, that was directed at Charli, I was citing you.

Whoops, my bad. I'm feeling kind of crappy so I skipped to my name without reading the rest, because I wanted to go lay down sooner.

My apologies.

 

[Einspanner]

-snip-

Oh you want to play the numbers game?

Please let us play the numbers game!


Population of North America: ~565,265,000

Population of Japan: ~127,110,000

Ratio of Populations (North America:Japan): ~4.44:1


DOAXI Sales figures ratio (North America:Japan): ~2.57:1

DOAXII Sales figures ratio (North America:Japan): ~2.5:1


What's that? The games sold higher in Japan relative to its population size than North America? And that you used the figures in a biased way and deceptive way (by leaving out any correction for the respective population sizes) to try to prove your point?

To quote yourself:
"yeah, we're done here.

Sit down, shut up, and stop lieing to people."

Also I've reported your post given how abusive you're being. And blocked you. Good day.


I'm done with this thread now. Its been a pleasant and interesting chat with some of you.

none of that means anything sorry to say ^^

more people doesn't mean more sales, all it means is more potential sales.

He thought that you were trying to make a point about per capita sales, or something like that, as opposed to just demonstrating piss poor sales numbers everywhere, including the homeland. Then again, I think based on the response you got, it could also have just been a tantrum.

 

[Einspanner]

Spoiler

Spoiler

Curious. The most common insult I've seen thrown around in this thread so far has been 'prudish.'

I really don't think the titty lovers are in a position to cry 'victim' here.

I can't point specific posts on the thread as that would warrant me a warning, however just in the first page there's someone saying those kind of games are nothing but porn and someone else implying the only people that play those games are lonely people that can't get real women. That sort of condescending attitude is what I'm reffering to when I say there's prejudice leveled at those kind of games and the people who play them.

Oh, please.

Out of curiosity, I checked.

Users blasting DOAX/'Titty Game' Enthusiast - 2
Users blasting US citizens as prudish/puritanical - 10
Users blasting companies that make titty games - 2
Users blasting people for thinking Huniepop/DOAX are titty games - 1
Users claiming I, specifically, am a subpar perv - 1

There's more too, you should give it a try! You might come away with a new perspective, uncomfortable as that might be for you.

...What? I'm struggling to discover how 'try more' is an appropriate response to what amounts to me taking a score count of thread posters. Do you want me to try reading more post? I assure you, I already did. That's how I took score.

Sorry, you misunderstood, that was directed at Charli, I was citing you.

Whoops, my bad. I'm feeling kind of crappy so I skipped to my name without reading the rest, because I wanted to go lay down sooner.

My apologies.

It was my fault actually, I should have formatted that in a way to make it clear who I was talking to. Lets just call it a day.

 

[EternallyBored]

I kind of re-read the thread and found that it absolutely does not answer the question, why cannot Blizzard do an Overwatch Beach spin-off, where everyone's running around in hula skirts blasting each other with super soakers.

Keep in mind that in the Dead or Alive universe Zack bought his private island in the end of DoA3 which allowed for DoAX which he did under the pretense of it being the next island that the tournament will be held. The island was destroyed but he made money in DoA 4 and either repaired the island or bought a new one.

Sure Blizzard can easily pull off something like this since they can make a game like Heroes of the Storm but they wont touch this because they are PC about it which was proven to be the case when their political position was brought into question and they mentioned gamergate in one of their panels. Even though that doesn't really stops them taking the sexy outfit route for DLC in both HotS and Overwatch. If they need a plot they can easily concoct one.

Hell they can even break the mold by bringing males, "animals"?, and pets into the mix.

So to answer your question bluntly, Blizzard wont touch that kind of spin-off because of their political leanings. It's too radical of an idea for their company to uphold and defend.

Even without sexualization Blizzard won't touch spinoffs like that. Blizzard isn't going to mimic a spinoff series like DOAX that can't even break a million copies sold world wide. Blizzard likely won't even look at a concept that isn't completely proven to be AAA worthy.

We are talking about the company that took over 16 years to introduce an original property based on the remains of an MMO that was supposed to succeed WoW and then threw a 100 million dollar advertising campaign behind it. A company who's only real spinoff (Hearthstone) that started out as a passion project worked on independently by its own employees and then was only really released for widespread sale after betaing and realizing that it would be a massive hit.

Blizzard doesn't do anything that doesn't have an almost 100% chance of achieving AAA sales and critical status, Blizzard won't do a DOAX spinoff of Overwatch for the same reason it doesn't do spinoffs of anything that isn't mimicing literally one of the most successful games on the market today (LoL, DOTA). Blizzard is ridiculously conservative when it comes to spinoffs and offshoots of their main properties, which can be good or bad depending on how you look at it. Blizzard is one of the worst examples you could use when asking why we don't get X type of spinoff of Y property.

Basically, even if Blizzard changed its politics, the DOAX style spinoff still isn't something they would touch with a ten foot poll.

 

[Estarc]

There's good controversy (anything not about sex or nudity or sexy nudity) and then bad controversy (anything regarding sex or nudity or sexy nudity).

Basically suits in the west seem to piss their pants at the idea of failing to be perceived as puritanical and having soccer moms send angry letters about their kids being "excited" by the characters in the games they funded.

As if every kid with a smartphone isn't on fucking pornhub anyway nowadays.

Edit: DOAX is a really low bar to aim for though. I know you said "in the style of" but if western devs did try to make games in that market I'd hope they produced something of significantly higher quality.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

[HEADING=2]Mod Voice[/HEADING]

Lunar Templar and Lightspeaker, this kind of behaviour isn't acceptable and is only serving to derail the thread. Lightspeaker has now walked away from the conversation. There's no need to drag it back up to make snarky comments like that.

I expect that to be the end of the dispute now. Play nice. Thanks.

 

[Callate]

I suspect it's because it would damn your game.

A clear appeal to prurient interests would cause many people (especially in the West) to think that you were aiming low because your game was lacking as an actual game and was relying on sex to make up for its shortcomings. Many would go looking for things they could identify as those shortcomings to justify their view that you were playing up sex to cover the game's inadequacies.

Assuming you managed to pass that hurdle, you have a game that many people, including reviewers, will be embarrassed to admit that they enjoyed playing. "No, really, it's a very solid game, I enjoy playing it!" "Sure, man. Just be sure to lock the door while you're 'enjoying' it."

It becomes very, very easy to dismiss your game out of hand without ever actually engaging with it; you've just given a number of people an excuse to say that they "don't go there". And while the truth may be otherwise, many of however few will admit to liking your game will carefully spell out that they like your game "in spite of" rather than "because of" that quirk.

And then, oh, let's see. You get swarmed by the usual round of busybodies: the ones that think that you're peddling perversion to children because video games are toys, the ones who will accuse you of sexual objectification, the ones who feel you're sullying the waters of their beloved hobby/industry/livelihood just when it's starting to be taken seriously. This would be a good time to stop following Twitter.

You can also expect a healthy does of piracy, as any modern medium piece with a whiff of "non-respectability" gets taken as fair game above and beyond the bright and shiny pieces that are published by big companies amidst wide visibility and big marketing campaigns. Your "fans" will pass your work around Pirate Bay even as they complain that your company isn't doing stuff like "this" any more; what they won't do is stand up for your right to make it and earn a living doing so, you filthy smut merchant.

All in all, making your game overtly sexy has just amped up the difficulty on every level. To follow through on that, you have to really want to make a sexy game. And congratulations on having the courage to attempt it, man, but I hope you're in it for the challenge and the love of the feat itself, because you shouldn't expect anyone else to publicly acknowledge or reward your chutzpah.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

"What's keeping the West from making DOAX style games?"

Good taste.

Now THAT is hi-freaking-larious considering we're getting a game called "The Fractured, But Whole" soon. Not to mention the recent Doom game where blood, guts, and mayhem are practically punctuation marks in the game's script. Then you have Dragon Age Origins which sold itself on sex and violence.